CAP Talk

General Discussion => The Lobby => Topic started by: Patterson on March 20, 2014, 07:33:03 PM

Title: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Patterson on March 20, 2014, 07:33:03 PM
Today I received a request from the Director of Development Office at CAP NHQ asking me for a donation to the Mary Feik Flight Cadet Flight Scholarship program.  The goal of this new fundraising effort is to raise $50,000 to "provide a meaningful financial scholarship to deserving cadets across the nation".

The letter also states "we are sensitive to the needs of the cadets in our communities and try to reflect this in developing programs that allow our cadets to realize their dreams.  By teaming up with the local FBO's, flight training is within reach".

When I was a Cadet and selected to receive flight training through CAP, I was expected to fund it myself.  My family could not spare money to pay for things like flight training.  When approaching the Squadron, Group and Wing leadership, I was told in very plain terms "sorry kid, you need to get out there and find the cash". I did just that, seeking financial support from the local VFW and American Legion.

The real problem I have with this endeavor by NHQ is the knowledge that in my Wing (PAWG), nearly half of the Wings annual budget goes to pay for Cadet Encampment costs.  The Wing Leadership continues to host one of the nations most expensive cadet Encampments, that frankly provides nothing more than a place for Cadets to march around at for a week.  Where there are Air Force installations, the Wing continues to use facilities that are owned by the Army National Guard, and who charge such terribly high rates for everything.

I would rather a scholarship be setup nationally that pays for Cadets to attend the required Encampment instead of extracurricular activities such as flight training!

So CAP NHQ, I will not give you more of my money so a Cadet not associated with my Squadron can learn to fly for free.  Sorry!
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Private Investigator on March 20, 2014, 07:42:49 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: JeffDG on March 20, 2014, 07:43:59 PM
I'd rather donate directly to my Wing or Group.  The echelons above reality, not so much.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: arajca on March 20, 2014, 08:21:43 PM
Got the same letter today. Put in the recycling bin after reading the first line.

If National has REALLY teamed up with FBO's, where is the list of those who will provide discounted flight training to our cadets?
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: AirAux on March 20, 2014, 08:51:10 PM
Say hello to diversity and inclusion...
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: a2capt on March 20, 2014, 09:01:51 PM
Seems like I got that letter a few months ago..

I wonder who's paying for the letters.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: HGjunkie on March 20, 2014, 09:04:46 PM
CAP already gives out (rather difficult to earn) flight scholarships for those cadets who have chosen to commit to the program (by reaching phase 3). I don't see a real reason to change that, they receive Daedalian and other scholarships to give out as well.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: NIN on March 20, 2014, 10:45:20 PM
Quote from: a2capt on March 20, 2014, 09:01:51 PM
I wonder who's paying for the letters.

You
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 20, 2014, 10:54:18 PM
"It seemed like a good idea at the time..."
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: FW on March 21, 2014, 02:18:48 AM
Whatever happened to the CAP Foundation?  I understand it had about $200,000 in their coffers. Mary Feik, btw, was a major contributor.  I was hoping the foundation would be helping CAP by now.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: flyboy53 on March 21, 2014, 03:22:56 AM
It's pretty sad that CAP has become "give me your money."

Here's a hint for NHQ -- you already get enough of my time and money -- don't bug me for more.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: The CyBorg is destroyed on March 21, 2014, 03:31:03 AM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 20, 2014, 07:43:59 PM
I'd rather donate directly to my Wing or Group.  The echelons above reality, not so much.

Nicely said.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: disamuel on March 21, 2014, 04:30:31 AM
Why would we want to sponsor cadets to fly on FBO owned aircraft, when our own fleet is so much in need of additional flying hours?
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: SarDragon on March 21, 2014, 06:59:48 AM
Quote from: disamuel on March 21, 2014, 04:30:31 AM
Why would we want to sponsor cadets to fly on FBO owned aircraft, when our own fleet is so much in need of additional flying hours?

Our fleet comprises aircraft models not the most suitable for flight instruction, specifically the 182s and 206s. They are more complex, and more expensive to operate.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Archer on March 21, 2014, 07:23:53 AM
Quote from: Patterson on March 20, 2014, 07:33:03 PM
[...]Encampments, that frankly provides nothing more than a place for Cadets to march around at for a week.[...]

Why do you feel that way?
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: SarDragon on March 21, 2014, 07:32:50 AM
Quote from: Archer on March 21, 2014, 07:23:53 AM
Quote from: Patterson on March 20, 2014, 07:33:03 PM
[...]Encampments, that frankly provides nothing more than a place for Cadets to march around at for a week.[...]

Why do you feel that way?

That may be his perception of PAWG encampments. I'm glad to say that the three encampments I attended were not like that. It's a YMMV thing.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: MSG Mac on March 21, 2014, 05:26:23 PM
These are the same people who lost $3-6,000,000 on sponsoring the racecar
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Private Investigator on March 21, 2014, 05:29:27 PM
HWSNBN said a Commander needs to spend 20% of their time fundraising.  ::)
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: MSG Mac on March 21, 2014, 05:41:19 PM
Quote from: Private Investigator on March 21, 2014, 05:29:27 PM
HWSNBN said a Commander needs to spend 20% of their time fundraising.  ::)
External fund raising, not internal
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: NC Hokie on March 21, 2014, 07:28:52 PM
I already make a yearly contribution to CAP, as do all of the members of my squadron.  We see little return on that investment locally, and have to resort to additional dues, local fundraising, and unreimbursed out-of-pocket expenses for everything that we do.

Now I get asked for more money to support optional activities for cadets that I may never meet, while my own cadets cannot even get the uniforms that they were promised when they submitted their applications (three FCU orders submitted in October with no idea when - or if - they'll ever arrive).

Sorry, but my CAP money will be staying at home.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: NIN on March 21, 2014, 07:34:47 PM
There is a subtle difference fundraising from your audience between a membership organization (CAP) and something like a foundation or a college.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: antdetroitwallyball on March 23, 2014, 02:21:09 PM
I hate organizations that do these kind of shakedowns. I used to volunteer as a Big Brother with Big Brothers Big Sisters (BBBS). They assign you a kid to mentor, and everything you do with that kid basically comes out of your pocket. BBBS was fond of saying, "Well, you can do activities with your mentee that don't cost any money, like bake cookies in your kitchen or visit a local municipal park."

Well, I got assigned a 13 year old boy, and ended up taking on his 15 year old cousin as well. No 13 or 15 year old wants to "bake cookies." We did cool things, like go to museums and even a theme park. That all cost a ton of money, in addition to the gas it cost to drive around.

But I was totally fine with paying for all that. No volunteer work is really free.

I got upset, however, when BBBS started soliciting its volunteer mentors (like myself) for donations to fund the organization. They would pester me via email, mail, phone calls, etc. It was very insulting. I would be very disappointed if CAP began practicing fundraisers like that.... :)
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on March 25, 2014, 07:31:06 AM
You were alone with teenagers, and no one had a heart attack? No one was inappropriately contacted? Man, some of the folks on CAPtalk probably wouldnt touch BBBS with a 10 light year stick.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Al Sayre on March 25, 2014, 02:43:38 PM
I have to say I agree with most of the posters here.  I provided most of the funding for an entire squadron in the 5 years I was a SC/CC (Commander Always Pays).  They need to send these letters to potential outside donors, not the membership.  Were already paying an extra mark-up at Vanguard in addition to our dues and the money we spend to help our squadrons and other members.  At what point do we say enough is enough?
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Ned on March 25, 2014, 04:49:58 PM
I think we can all agree that CAP needs additional funding, and that we should not be so dependant on a single source - Uncle Sam.  (Who although beloved, can be a little fickle and invents things like sequestration which can and does cause CAP immense problems.)

The Board of Governors' guidance is to broaden our financial base and seek additional revenue sources.  So we pursue grants, STEM funding, and additional customers.

And we hired a Director of Development, Skip Dotherow.  Skip came to us with an extensive background in fundraising in the non-profit world.  He has created an carefully crafted program that includes annual giving, wills and bequests, special fundraising events and campaigns, and all of the similar programs that every single major non-profit in this country utilize.  Because they are effective and help support the organization.

One part of that are the letters that many of us receive from time to time asking for additional support.  Obviously, they are not intended to insult anyone, if for no other reason because insulting people does not provide an effective fundraising method.  If you are unable to give or simply do not wish to give additional support, do not give.

Everyone -- including Skip -- fully understands that all of you are already engaged in CAP and pay dues at the local, wing, region, and national level.  We know that you support your unit in countless other ways -- providing supplies, sponsoring cadets to activities, kicking in for pizza, etc.  All of which adds up.  We really, really understand that.

But some members are in a position provide additional support, and are happy to do so when asked.  Particularly if it is part of a particular program and they can see where their particular donation is going.  To a particular flight scholarship, perhaps.  Or maybe to support the IACE program.

As others have indicated in this thread, providing volunteers an additional opportunity to contribute to the mission is both normal and necessary in the non-profit world.  ARC volunteers receive that same letters that have been described here.  As do BBBS volunteers.   Scouters, symphony subscribers, and the parents of every public and private school in the universe -- all receive letters seeking support.

Bottom line: seeking additional support from the fraction of the membership that can provide it is an important and successful part of our development plan.  But we also are aggressively pursuing outside gifts, donors, grants, and other funding. 

All of which enables us to better perform our missions.  Which is the real reason we exist in the first place.


Ned Lee
NHQ Apologist

Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: JeffDG on March 25, 2014, 04:55:53 PM
Quote from: Ned on March 25, 2014, 04:49:58 PM
Ned Lee
NHQ Apologist

I just can't believe that NHQ didn't advertise that new duty position for folks to apply for.   >:D
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 25, 2014, 05:12:28 PM
Where's the opt-out button?
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: MSG Mac on March 25, 2014, 05:33:16 PM
Also explains why your income level is now an optional input on the membership forms.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: DoubleSecret on March 26, 2014, 10:44:09 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 25, 2014, 05:12:28 PM
Where's the opt-out button?

This.  I still get mail from two of my colleges asking for donations.  An opt-out button would at least save them the time and money they waste asking me. 
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Patterson on March 26, 2014, 11:17:07 AM
^ exactly!  Postage adds up, it eats away at the amount of cash generated by the mailing. 
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Alaric on March 26, 2014, 01:12:43 PM
Quote from: Ned on March 25, 2014, 04:49:58 PM
I think we can all agree that CAP needs additional funding, and that we should not be so dependant on a single source - Uncle Sam.  (Who although beloved, can be a little fickle and invents things like sequestration which can and does cause CAP immense problems.)

The Board of Governors' guidance is to broaden our financial base and seek additional revenue sources.  So we pursue grants, STEM funding, and additional customers.

And we hired a Director of Development, Skip Dotherow.  Skip came to us with an extensive background in fundraising in the non-profit world.  He has created an carefully crafted program that includes annual giving, wills and bequests, special fundraising events and campaigns, and all of the similar programs that every single major non-profit in this country utilize.  Because they are effective and help support the organization.

One part of that are the letters that many of us receive from time to time asking for additional support.  Obviously, they are not intended to insult anyone, if for no other reason because insulting people does not provide an effective fundraising method.  If you are unable to give or simply do not wish to give additional support, do not give.

Everyone -- including Skip -- fully understands that all of you are already engaged in CAP and pay dues at the local, wing, region, and national level.  We know that you support your unit in countless other ways -- providing supplies, sponsoring cadets to activities, kicking in for pizza, etc.  All of which adds up.  We really, really understand that.

But some members are in a position provide additional support, and are happy to do so when asked.  Particularly if it is part of a particular program and they can see where their particular donation is going.  To a particular flight scholarship, perhaps.  Or maybe to support the IACE program.

As others have indicated in this thread, providing volunteers an additional opportunity to contribute to the mission is both normal and necessary in the non-profit world.  ARC volunteers receive that same letters that have been described here.  As do BBBS volunteers.   Scouters, symphony subscribers, and the parents of every public and private school in the universe -- all receive letters seeking support.

Bottom line: seeking additional support from the fraction of the membership that can provide it is an important and successful part of our development plan.  But we also are aggressively pursuing outside gifts, donors, grants, and other funding. 

All of which enables us to better perform our missions.  Which is the real reason we exist in the first place.


Ned Lee
NHQ Apologist

I have communicated to Dr. Dotherow that I believe his methods are a violation of our core value of integrity, and after further consideration of respect as well.  If NHQ is so desperate for funding that they have to solicit their own members then perhaps they should ask senior leadership to take the hit first (i.e. if a National or Region member wishes to travel its on his own dime; if we are going to have a fundraising person, do what other organization do, hire him with a very low salary with bonuses based on his ability to solicit from outside the organization.)  What this organization does not need is more apologists, if we are ever going to change the organization for the better
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: ironputts on March 26, 2014, 01:46:15 PM
As Ned said, give if you can and if you cant or wont then dont! Like some of you, I read what it said and I tossed it. I then went to my CAP meeting and had a great time with the cadets.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: jimmydeanno on March 26, 2014, 01:56:01 PM
I've always been of the opinion, "If our own members aren't willing to support our organization, why should anyone else."  I pay my annual membership dues.  That is the only money CAP formally gets from me.  I don't pay for fuel in vans, supplies for the office, or fuel in the planes.  I do, however, contribute to scholarship funds locally, and will more than likely contribute to this one because I now know about it - and it meets the goal of what I think CAP should be doing. 

Just because your unit is horrible at external fundraising doesn't mean that CAP NHQ needs to shut down its efforts because you personally contribute more locally.  If that's how you want to fund your local program, fine, open your wallet and your donation is appreciated.  If I don't "have to" fund my local unit because they're doing their job, then I can keep spending my money on encampment scholarships, NCSA scholarships, and flight scholarships.  I don't mind them asking, because otherwise I wouldn't know they had the donation opportunity.

The cause is  good.  Encampment scholarships would be cool, too., but flight scholarships certainly do meet the aim of our aerospace education program.  If you chose not to donate, just recycle the letter.  Don't bash the scholarship program, anyone searching for this scholarship online is probably going to find this in the top results and ask the same question I do, "If their own members aren't willing to contribute, why should I?"
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 02:29:14 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 26, 2014, 01:56:01 PM"If their own members aren't willing to contribute, why should I?"

Or...

Why does a national organization which is a partner with a military service, not to mention fielding the largest private fleet of GA aircraft
in the world have to ask its members for money?

Why aren't they leveraging those relationships externally, especially when flight training benefits their external partners?

Ready, fire, aim.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Alaric on March 26, 2014, 02:53:53 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 26, 2014, 01:56:01 PM

Just because your unit is horrible at external fundraising doesn't mean that CAP NHQ needs to shut down its efforts because you personally contribute more locally.  If that's how you want to fund your local program, fine, open your wallet and your donation is appreciated.  If I don't "have to" fund my local unit because they're doing their job, then I can keep spending my money on encampment scholarships, NCSA scholarships, and flight scholarships.  I don't mind them asking, because otherwise I wouldn't know they had the donation opportunity.



I don't think CAP NHQ needs to shut down its efforts as long as it concentrates on EXTERNAL fundraising, stop bothering me for money, and spending money by sending physical letters.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: a2capt on March 26, 2014, 05:52:59 PM
In a sick twisted way, it could be like we're passengers on a plane that stopped for fuel and they're asking the passengers to chip in for gas.. and they paid for their seats already, too.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 06:10:33 PM
We can attack this from another vector as well.

Why does an organization with over 500 airplanes and thousands of pilots need to be paying
anyone externally for flight training?

A properly scaled program could essentially have zero costs except for fuel.

Allow some of the O-Ride money to go towards flight instruction - maybe on an "opt-in" basis
per cadet.   That's 5 hours of stick time, per cadet, without any additional budget changes.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: SJFedor on March 26, 2014, 06:36:31 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 06:10:33 PM
We can attack this from another vector as well.

Why does an organization with over 500 airplanes and thousands of pilots need to be paying
anyone externally for flight training?

A properly scaled program could essentially have zero costs except for fuel.

Allow some of the O-Ride money to go towards flight instruction - maybe on an "opt-in" basis
per cadet.   That's 5 hours of stick time, per cadet, without any additional budget changes.

That's already specifically prohibited by regulation. CAPR 60-1, 2.2(h)
QuoteExcept for flight instruction or during CAP check rides, only a qualified CAP pilot may handle the controls below 1,000
ft AGL. Orientation flights are not flight instruction. PICs on orientation flights must handle the controls below 1,000 ft AGL.

Emphasis mine.

Is it silly? Absolutely. Has it unofficially happened? Most likely.


Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: NIN on March 26, 2014, 06:39:47 PM
Having worked in higher education, and being closer personal friends with several folks who do "development" in higher ed and other non-profits, I will echo that it is a bit of a tightrope to walk to solicit donations from your membership base.  I'm not saying you shouldn't, but the message has to be tailored differently for your membership audience (even more so than it has to for an alumni-based situation like a school).

Development people are in the unenviable position to continually be seeking funding sources, both internally (members/alumni) and externally (foundations, philanthropists, industry, etc).  I heard a *lot* of grousing from recent grads from the college I worked at that they just spent $80,000 on school and already the college was trying to get them to donate more money.  Well, they got a $20,000 a year education based on getting a discount scholarship of $20,000 that  the school's endowment could support that due to the efforts of the development people.  The didn't understand that the "scholarship" they got wasn't 100% due to someone in the Admissions department's largess with a pen, but rather due to the largess of some fairly well-off alum with his checkbook.

Dr. Dotherow may have (just making up examples) Aeroshell on the hook for a $20,000 grant or Cessna lined up to fund a flight training scholarship, but that all hasn't come thru yet.  Or maybe he went to Cessna and said "Can we get a $100,000 to start a flight training scholarship?" and Cessna said "Nah, we give you guys a huge break on the price of airplanes already.."  Time to go to Piper, Cirrus, etc. But that does take time.

But maybe Mr. and Mrs. Smith from Podunk, Iowa just lost their son Timmy who had been a cadet 20 years ago, and they want to fund a scholarship in his name.  Might be local, might not be.

Its tough. I spend a lot of $$$ on CAP yearly. I get that.   Personally, I am not likely to write a check for a fundraising appeal for some faceless national flight scholarship when I may also have to pony up a few dollars to my unit to help Timmy & Susie get to encampment this year.  But maybe that letter hits Jim Ragwing, CAP pilot extraordinaire, when he's got an extra $10,000 $1,000 and he reads that letter and goes "You know, I remember when I was a teenager and wanted to fly..."  Out comes the checkbook.

Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 06:45:46 PM
Quote from: SJFedor on March 26, 2014, 06:36:31 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 06:10:33 PM
We can attack this from another vector as well.

Why does an organization with over 500 airplanes and thousands of pilots need to be paying
anyone externally for flight training?

A properly scaled program could essentially have zero costs except for fuel.

Allow some of the O-Ride money to go towards flight instruction - maybe on an "opt-in" basis
per cadet.   That's 5 hours of stick time, per cadet, without any additional budget changes.

That's already specifically prohibited by regulation. CAPR 60-1, 2.2(h)
QuoteExcept for flight instruction or during CAP check rides, only a qualified CAP pilot may handle the controls below 1,000
ft AGL. Orientation flights are not flight instruction. PICs on orientation flights must handle the controls below 1,000 ft AGL.

Emphasis mine.

Is it silly? Absolutely. Has it unofficially happened? Most likely.

Understand, but it would be a minor change with zero budget implications except for the
lawyers who would probably have a conniption.

I'd be willing to bet NAFI would lobby hard against it as well.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: JeffDG on March 26, 2014, 07:00:00 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 06:45:46 PM
Understand, but it would be a minor change with zero budget implications except for the
lawyers who would probably have a conniption.

I'd be willing to bet NAFI would lobby hard against it as well.
It would have significant budget implications...specifically that the O-Ride money comes from appropriated funds, and as such, has strings on it from Ma Blue...don't know if they'd appreciate us using it for flight-training.  Regardless, it would certainly require their permission.

We can't just use "A" money for whatever we like.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 07:06:19 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 26, 2014, 07:00:00 PM
It would have significant budget implications...specifically that the O-Ride money comes from appropriated funds, and as such, has strings on it from Ma Blue...don't know if they'd appreciate us using it for flight-training.  Regardless, it would certainly require their permission.

We can't just use "A" money for whatever we like.

Agreed.

It would take the USAF to buy in, but I don't imagine that would be a hard-sell.

As it stands, we're (theoretically) "budgeting" 5 flight hours per cadet for what amounts to burning
a hole in the sky for 45mins to an hour.

Substituting actual, log-able flight instruction for those eligible (age-wise) would be a zero-dollar change
and actually increases the ROI on the USAF's money.  It also uses the money for the exact same reason
it was intended - promoting general aviation, etc., etc. but instead of a pattern ride it has actual
value to the cadet in question.

It would definitely be a recruiting bonus, and if it was limited to say, Phase II cadets, could quell the
naysayers who would be concerned cadets would only join for the 5 free hours of instruction.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Ned on March 26, 2014, 07:14:53 PM
One of the uniques challenges CAP has in seeking outside revenue is the perception that we are entirely funded by the Federal Government.  (Which is only about 85% true.)

Large donors have choices about where to place their donations, and many of them are understandably reluctant to give it to us for that reason.  When I make a donation, I want to know that I am making a measurable difference to the organization.  Like some people will be served who would not otherwise be served, orphans fed that might otherwise go hungry, and perhaps support a new science outreach program for the Discovery Museum.

For us, we need to combat the perception that if the donor doesn't give us money for a particular program, Uncle Sam will pay for it.

That's a big part of why Harvard has a substantially larger endowment than UCLA or West Point.

There are specific strategies to deal with the problem.  Mr. Dotherow is happy to talk to anyone about it at great length.

But it is a problem.  Members like you and me see things a little differently.  If I kick in a little extra to support a flight scholarship or to subsidize a cadet's encampment tuition, I know where the money is going.  And know that if I don't do it, it may not happen.

Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Alaric on March 26, 2014, 07:18:35 PM
Quote from: Ned on March 26, 2014, 07:14:53 PM
One of the uniques challenges CAP has in seeking outside revenue is the perception that we are entirely funded by the Federal Government.  (Which is only about 85% true.)

Large donors have choices about where to place their donations, and many of them are understandably reluctant to give it to us for that reason.  When I make a donation, I want to know that I am making a measurable difference to the organization.  Like some people will be served who would not otherwise be served, orphans fed that might otherwise go hungry, and perhaps support a new science outreach program for the Discovery Museum.

For us, we need to combat the perception that if the donor doesn't give us money for a particular program, Uncle Sam will pay for it.

That's a big part of why Harvard has a substantially larger endowment than UCLA or West Point.

There are specific strategies to deal with the problem.  Mr. Dotherow is happy to talk to anyone about it at great length.

But it is a problem.  Members like you and me see things a little differently.  If I kick in a little extra to support a flight scholarship or to subsidize a cadet's encampment tuition, I know where the money is going.  And know that if I don't do it, it may not happen.

Charity begins at home, if NHQ is serious about raising money than do it from external sources, stop trying to take money from the local units where the work gets done.  Maybe cut costs like mailing solicitations to members and cut paid staff.  95 - 98 percent of all staff for the American Red Cross are volunteers, they are a lot bigger and work far larger incidents then we do on a day to day basis.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 07:19:16 PM
Quote from: Ned on March 26, 2014, 07:14:53 PM
One of the uniques challenges CAP has in seeking outside revenue is the perception that we are entirely funded by the Federal Government.  (Which is only about 85% true.)

Agree on the perception.  At the unit-level it's effectively 0%.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: Alaric on March 26, 2014, 07:18:35 PM95 - 98 percent of all staff for the American Red Cross are volunteers, they are a lot bigger and work far larger incidents then we do on a day to day basis.

An interesting / good point.

NHQ tried to get us to augment the USAF through VSAF.  Why aren't volunteers augmenting paid staff?

In this day and age you don't have to be sitting in Maxwell to do the office work, or for that matter even answer the phones.

We hear about being short-handed, budget cuts, etc., etc., but never anyone asking for help.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: husker on March 26, 2014, 07:22:49 PM
Quote from: Alaric on March 26, 2014, 07:18:35 PM

Charity begins at home, if NHQ is serious about raising money than do it from external sources, stop trying to take money from the local units where the work gets done.  Maybe cut costs like mailing solicitations to members and cut paid staff.  95 - 98 percent of all staff for the American Red Cross are volunteers, they are a lot bigger and work far larger incidents then we do on a day to day basis.

I don't think the paid staff could be cut any more.  As it is, they barely keep their head above water.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: JeffDG on March 26, 2014, 07:33:31 PM
Quote from: husker on March 26, 2014, 07:22:49 PM
Quote from: Alaric on March 26, 2014, 07:18:35 PM

Charity begins at home, if NHQ is serious about raising money than do it from external sources, stop trying to take money from the local units where the work gets done.  Maybe cut costs like mailing solicitations to members and cut paid staff.  95 - 98 percent of all staff for the American Red Cross are volunteers, they are a lot bigger and work far larger incidents then we do on a day to day basis.

I don't think the paid staff could be cut any more.  As it is, they barely keep their head above water.
Much of that is the fact that the paid staff refuse help from volunteers.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: arajca on March 26, 2014, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 26, 2014, 07:33:31 PM
Quote from: husker on March 26, 2014, 07:22:49 PM
Quote from: Alaric on March 26, 2014, 07:18:35 PM

Charity begins at home, if NHQ is serious about raising money than do it from external sources, stop trying to take money from the local units where the work gets done.  Maybe cut costs like mailing solicitations to members and cut paid staff.  95 - 98 percent of all staff for the American Red Cross are volunteers, they are a lot bigger and work far larger incidents then we do on a day to day basis.

I don't think the paid staff could be cut any more.  As it is, they barely keep their head above water.
Much of that is the fact that the paid staff refuse help from volunteers.
Not just the paid staff. It's from the Nat CC on down.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: NIN on March 26, 2014, 07:45:46 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 07:21:14 PM
In this day and age you don't have to be sitting in Maxwell to do the office work, or for that matter even answer the phones.

We hear about being short-handed, budget cuts, etc., etc., but never anyone asking for help.

Preach on, brother.

My comment in the other thread about heraldry speaks volumes to the fact that the "keeper of the heraldry" in CAP doesn't necessarily have to be a paid HQ staffer.  That could be a volunteer (or a subset of the NUC, again, volunteers) and it would be better than having nobody "minding the store".

Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Spaceman3750 on March 26, 2014, 08:05:42 PM

Quote from: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 07:06:19 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 26, 2014, 07:00:00 PM
It would have significant budget implications...specifically that the O-Ride money comes from appropriated funds, and as such, has strings on it from Ma Blue...don't know if they'd appreciate us using it for flight-training.  Regardless, it would certainly require their permission.

We can't just use "A" money for whatever we like.

Agreed.

It would take the USAF to buy in, but I don't imagine that would be a hard-sell.

As it stands, we're (theoretically) "budgeting" 5 flight hours per cadet for what amounts to burning
a hole in the sky for 45mins to an hour.

Substituting actual, log-able flight instruction for those eligible (age-wise) would be a zero-dollar change
and actually increases the ROI on the USAF's money.  It also uses the money for the exact same reason
it was intended - promoting general aviation, etc., etc. but instead of a pattern ride it has actual
value to the cadet in question.

It would definitely be a recruiting bonus, and if it was limited to say, Phase II cadets, could quell the
naysayers who would be concerned cadets would only join for the 5 free hours of instruction.

Not all of our o-ride pilots are CFIs. We can always change that rule, but it has the implication of having fewer o-ride pilots.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 08:21:10 PM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on March 26, 2014, 08:05:42 PM
Not all of our o-ride pilots are CFIs.

Nor do they need to be.

Regular O-Ride?  Regular O-Ride pilot.

Flight instruction?  Needs a CFI, and further one willing to give instruction.

Some wings might not even be able to do it at all, but it would be a nice to have, zero-cost option.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Walkman on March 26, 2014, 08:56:55 PM
I got the same letter the other day. I pitched it. Not because I was insulted that I already pay money for the program, but because I lost my job and I'm trying to launch a new business. I just don't have anything else to give right now. BUT fast forward a couple of years when my business is running strong and I have some extra cash, I'd make as big of a donation as I could to this (or another CAP) scholarship program.

I wasn't a cadet. But CAP has become such a huge part of my life and had given me so much that I'll gladly give a little extra to help future cadets gain as much if not more than I have.

(Yeah, the last time I gave blood it wasn't red, the color was 1620)
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: antdetroitwallyball on March 26, 2014, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on March 25, 2014, 07:31:06 AM
You were alone with teenagers, and no one had a heart attack? No one was inappropriately contacted? Man, some of the folks on CAPtalk probably wouldnt touch BBBS with a 10 light year stick.

Yeah, BBBS is a totally different model.....lol....

The background check was MUCH, MUCH more thorough. They had you undergo mutiple interviews, and you had to request papers from Child Protective Services, etc. You also have contact with the parent several times a week.

But back to the money/donations issue, everyone wants your dollar. Everyone wants to BE the "good cause," and expects to fund THEIR charitiableness with EVERYONE ELSE's money. Not inherently a bad thing, but it's gotton out of control.

Too many charitable causes that keep too much money for their own organization...
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Ned on March 26, 2014, 10:49:16 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 26, 2014, 07:21:14 PM

In this day and age you don't have to be sitting in Maxwell to do the office work, or for that matter even answer the phones.

In this area, the BoG totally agrees with you.

Which is why we have directed that the volunteer and paid national staffs be combined into a single staff supporting the organization at the National level.  Composed of both volunteer and paid members.


And to respond to another suggestion, I have pinged a few key staffers and we will take a look at creating an opt-out button for development solicitations.  Preliminary indications are that it should be relatively easy to do, but we haven't spoken to the IT crew yet.

More when I have it.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: FW on March 26, 2014, 10:58:40 PM
Every organization I belong to asks me to contribute more than my annual dues.  Even those organizaions in which I pay for flying (Angel Flight, PALS), asks me to contribute more. Even the boards I belong to tap me for extra cash now and then.  There is nothing strange about asking, however giving is predicated on the value perceived.  I happily contribute more to those organizations which prove to use the money to provide more and better services to their "customers". 

CAP needs contributions to fund Cadet Programs and AE; as well as scholarships and infrastructure.  We all know that, however if there is a perception membership funds are being wasted, it becomes problematic to find regular contributors from amongst the members.

If CAP can show the value of contributing, members will contribute.  Kind of like the ARC, it's more than blood.... >:D

IMHO, it would be sad if there were an "Opt Out" button included in Eservices.  I would rather change the climate for giving, but what do I know. :angel:
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on March 26, 2014, 11:07:03 PM
Quote from: Ned on March 25, 2014, 04:49:58 PM
I think we can all agree that CAP needs additional funding, and that we should not be so dependant on a single source - Uncle Sam.  (Who although beloved, can be a little fickle and invents things like sequestration which can and does cause CAP immense problems.)

The Board of Governors' guidance is to broaden our financial base and seek additional revenue sources.  So we pursue grants, STEM funding, and additional customers.

And we hired a Director of Development, Skip Dotherow.  Skip came to us with an extensive background in fundraising in the non-profit world.  He has created an carefully crafted program that includes annual giving, wills and bequests, special fundraising events and campaigns, and all of the similar programs that every single major non-profit in this country utilize.  Because they are effective and help support the organization.

One part of that are the letters that many of us receive from time to time asking for additional support.  Obviously, they are not intended to insult anyone, if for no other reason because insulting people does not provide an effective fundraising method.  If you are unable to give or simply do not wish to give additional support, do not give.

Everyone -- including Skip -- fully understands that all of you are already engaged in CAP and pay dues at the local, wing, region, and national level.  We know that you support your unit in countless other ways -- providing supplies, sponsoring cadets to activities, kicking in for pizza, etc.  All of which adds up.  We really, really understand that.

But some members are in a position provide additional support, and are happy to do so when asked.  Particularly if it is part of a particular program and they can see where their particular donation is going.  To a particular flight scholarship, perhaps.  Or maybe to support the IACE program.

As others have indicated in this thread, providing volunteers an additional opportunity to contribute to the mission is both normal and necessary in the non-profit world.  ARC volunteers receive that same letters that have been described here.  As do BBBS volunteers.   Scouters, symphony subscribers, and the parents of every public and private school in the universe -- all receive letters seeking support.

Bottom line: seeking additional support from the fraction of the membership that can provide it is an important and successful part of our development plan.  But we also are aggressively pursuing outside gifts, donors, grants, and other funding. 

All of which enables us to better perform our missions.  Which is the real reason we exist in the first place.


Ned Lee
NHQ Apologist

His first couple of letters, in my opinion, talked down to the recipients. Either he has picked up on that because of feedback from the recipients or somebody at NHQ gave him a briefing on realities and actualities.

I didn't mind the tone or general content of the latest letter. In fact, as a long-ago recipient of cadet flight training, I'm sympathetic to the cause. But - I do wonder about how the campaign was targeted. It costs in the 5 digits for postage alone to send   out the mailers on such a shotgun basis. I hope more is donated than was spent.

Besides the targeting and expense - is there an actual plan for how to use the money? I've got a vision of somebody saying "We could use $xxx000, but let's wait until we get what we get before we come up with an actual budget." I fear that the solicitation was for a concept rather than for a program.

Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: SunDog on March 27, 2014, 03:46:55 AM
I don't mind if they ask; it would probably be cheaper and as effective (or as ineffective) to do it via email.

NHQ has a real big lift, to overcome how it/they are perceived by membership. Those chains have been forged over a long, long time.  Makes for a tough current for a development guy to swim against. . .best of luck to him, for real.

I'll kick in a bit locally - can't see sending $$$ to a NHQ, a group that gave us eServices, WMIRS, gut-wrenching bureaucracy, and ethical dwarfs in command.

My sqdn doesn't have dues, which would likely not fly at all. We'll pitch in and cover for a CP need, if and when.  As someone else said - I'd have to see the $$$ impact, locally and clearly.



Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: tribalelder on March 27, 2014, 09:38:39 PM
I thought Wing Banker was going to solve CAP's financial woes by giving the corporation an unqualified audit opinion.

Now NHQ wants to be in my will.


Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: FW on March 27, 2014, 09:54:42 PM
^There is a big difference between accounting for every penny, and insuring each penny is used for the best possible purpose.
CAP doesn't have "financial woes".  It has a need to expand and provide better services to it's members.  Mo' money would help.  How to get it is another matter. ::)
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 27, 2014, 10:09:41 PM
The UQ was sold as being important to opening the doors to donors who require such things.

Why don't we just dip into those funds?
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: MisterCD on March 28, 2014, 12:21:21 AM
Quote from: JeffDG on March 26, 2014, 07:33:31 PM
Quote from: husker on March 26, 2014, 07:22:49 PM
Quote from: Alaric on March 26, 2014, 07:18:35 PM

Charity begins at home, if NHQ is serious about raising money than do it from external sources, stop trying to take money from the local units where the work gets done.  Maybe cut costs like mailing solicitations to members and cut paid staff.  95 - 98 percent of all staff for the American Red Cross are volunteers, they are a lot bigger and work far larger incidents then we do on a day to day basis.

I don't think the paid staff could be cut any more.  As it is, they barely keep their head above water.
Much of that is the fact that the paid staff refuse help from volunteers.

I'm sorry, but spending a good three to four hours practically every night answering forwarded emailed from NHQ regarding CAP history or managing the Congressional Gold Medal database, this comment of paid staff "refusing helping from volunteers" is rather obtuse.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: NIN on March 28, 2014, 09:41:54 PM
Quote from: tribalelder on March 27, 2014, 09:38:39 PM
I thought Wing Banker was going to solve CAP's financial woes by giving the corporation an unqualified audit opinion.

Now NHQ wants to be in my will.

Well, thats like saying "I have oranges.  And a Saturn V." 

An unqualified audit relates to an organization's ability to seek donations from donors who require that (as Eclipse said). 

That does not automagically mean that those donors just "unleash the money."

There is a multi-tiered, multi-level approach to development.

Yes, a donor (especially at the multi-five- or multi-six-figure levels) wants to know that your organization is financially "together" enough that it gets an unqualified audit.  Thats just one check box.  They want to be assured that the money they donate either locally or nationally won't "leak out on the floor" so to speak. 

Beyond that, however, big ticket donors are looking for overhead rates, national or regional impact, the level of "skin in the game" that the membership has, etc. 

Then things like the demographical (I think thats not a word.. I just made it up, and Chrome's spell checker is not happy about it.. LOL) make up of an organization comes into play, too, when speaking to certain donors.   Not every donor says "Here's $10M. Have a ball. We don't care if you spend it on pizza or buildings or flying time for old white guys who don't need it."  Many foundations or other grantors have boards that they have to answer to, that want to see their philanthropic money spent in a particular and positive way.   

No, in the development world, often, money contributed by a donor has strings attached to it. Lots of strings:

"I, the great-grandson of Carl Spaatz, do hereby bequeath my entire fortune and that of the Spaatz family to the Civil Air Patrol for the following purposes:

Flight Scholarships in Grandpa Tooey's name. To be used for minority cadets who want to learn how to fly, who are in the 9th percentile in family income, living in Rust Belt cities above the 38th parallel, within 3 miles of an airfield with runways 3000 ft or longer, and will only be awarded in even numbered years that are divisible by 9.

Squadron Buildings. For cadet squadrons located on airports more than 350 nautical miles from the nearest active USAF base.  A condition for taking a building funded under this codicil is that the squadron must be renamed the 'Carl Spaatz is Awesome Cadet Squadron' in perpetuity. Otherwise the building's lease reverts to the Boys and Girls Club.

Etc, etc""

Then you have in-kind grantors and donors (ie. Cessna, Aeroshell, etc). And you do a membership appeal.  And you do an "audience" appeal, etc.

I think I'm with Fred on this: Opting out of your own organizations needs/attempts to fundraise for programs is like saying "I only want to do the cool things. If it looks like work, have a cadet someone else do it."
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 28, 2014, 10:05:11 PM
Quote from: MisterCD on March 28, 2014, 12:21:21 AM
I'm sorry, but spending a good three to four hours practically every night answering forwarded emailed from NHQ regarding CAP history or managing the Congressional Gold Medal database, this comment of paid staff "refusing helping from volunteers" is rather obtuse.

You should have more staff.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: SunDog on March 29, 2014, 12:03:46 AM
Hi Nin - no outrage here just because they ask; understand they aren't mind readers. We can just "pass", no harm done.  How's the response been? Is it about average, per development efforts? Better? Worse?

If average or better, great! If worse, anyone figuring out why? That answer would be worth some $$$ to pursue.  My intuition is it's worse, but I am often wrong. . .

Shouldn't be too tough to convince potential donors we have skin in the game - membership count at $60 per annum, and some numbers on DA support hours, flying hours, cadet accomplisments, etc., should help.

My knee-jerk is my limited contributions are better directed locally - not seeing a compelling reason to move it up to NHQ, then hope it comes back down.  What's NHQ gonna do with it that my sqdn couldn't, other than minor influence to a big $$$ donor that we do have skin in the game?
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Simplex on March 29, 2014, 01:42:31 AM
My letter came a few days ago about the same time I got the flyer for the upcoming Regional Staff College. The cost to attend, plus housing (base housing is unavailable) travel expenses, etc., all boils down to something someone told me early on in my CAP experience. That is CAP = Come And Pay!

Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: MisterCD on March 29, 2014, 02:07:26 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 28, 2014, 10:05:11 PM
Quote from: MisterCD on March 28, 2014, 12:21:21 AM
I'm sorry, but spending a good three to four hours practically every night answering forwarded emailed from NHQ regarding CAP history or managing the Congressional Gold Medal database, this comment of paid staff "refusing helping from volunteers" is rather obtuse.

You should have more staff.

Which is why I revised the history staff to have nine positions plus additional assistants. Some things cannot involve too many staffers for PII concerns, nor can I have someone to handle my correspondence except myself.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on March 29, 2014, 02:51:57 AM
What in the historian's realm could have PII concerns?

If you have an issue with commingling personal and CAP business, use your CAP email for CAP business and nothing else.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Ed Bos on March 29, 2014, 02:54:39 AM
Quote from: NIN on March 28, 2014, 09:41:54 PM
I think I'm with Fred on this: Opting out of your own organizations needs/attempts to fundraise for programs is like saying "I only want to do the cool things. If it looks like work, have a cadet someone else do it."

Concur. I raise funds as a major component of my job, and there's nothing wrong with asking the folks that benefit from their affiliation with an organization to give if they choose to.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: LSThiker on March 29, 2014, 03:12:42 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 29, 2014, 02:51:57 AM
What in the historian's realm could have PII concerns?

If you have an issue with commingling personal and CAP business, use your CAP email for CAP business and nothing else.

Well, personal/personnel records, financial records, corporate records.  It is possible for a historian to come into PII. 
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: NIN on March 29, 2014, 11:47:07 AM
Quote from: LSThiker on March 29, 2014, 03:12:42 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 29, 2014, 02:51:57 AM
What in the historian's realm could have PII concerns?

If you have an issue with commingling personal and CAP business, use your CAP email for CAP business and nothing else.

Well, personal/personnel records, financial records, corporate records.  It is possible for a historian to come into PII.

Yeah, I have old CAP Personnel Authorizations in my personal records that have un-redacted SSNs on them.  Thats PII enough...
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: NIN on March 29, 2014, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: SunDog on March 29, 2014, 12:03:46 AM
Hi Nin - no outrage here just because they ask; understand they aren't mind readers. We can just "pass", no harm done.  How's the response been? Is it about average, per development efforts? Better? Worse?

If average or better, great! If worse, anyone figuring out why? That answer would be worth some $$$ to pursue.  My intuition is it's worse, but I am often wrong. . .

Shouldn't be too tough to convince potential donors we have skin in the game - membership count at $60 per annum, and some numbers on DA support hours, flying hours, cadet accomplisments, etc., should help.

My knee-jerk is my limited contributions are better directed locally - not seeing a compelling reason to move it up to NHQ, then hope it comes back down.  What's NHQ gonna do with it that my sqdn couldn't, other than minor influence to a big $$$ donor that we do have skin in the game?

Essentially, I don't think you're wrong.

(Mind you: I am not a development expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.  My knowledge of development comes from 4 years working in IT in higher ed, having developed a pretty good relationship with the Institutional Advancement people at the college, and having lots of interesting discussions about fundraising with them, usually with an eyeball toward how I could learn and apply that to CAP)

Development is one of those things that, like flying a plane, requires constant monitoring of the instruments, adjustments to the approach, and sometimes deviations to the flight path based on conditions.

You don't shotgun out letters, sit back and wait for the dollars to start rolling in, and never change a thing.    You fine tune, adjust the message, etc.   There is no "one approach" but rather multiple approaches, multiple campaigns, etc.   (In a lot of ways, it is like recruiting!)

Membership appeals are just one aspect of a multi-pronged program if you're doing it right. Of course, those of us who have been around for awhile remember a prior "Chief Advancement Officer" that pretty much was a one-trick pony. I think we know how well that worked out.

(and I have to assume that Dr. Dotherow knows what he's doing, even if he's relatively new to CAP, Inc. Down here where the rubber meets the road, it may not be obvious exactly how broad and deep his development efforts are. All we see are the appeals to the membership.  There may be hundreds of letters going out to foundations, corporate donors, etc.   Its usually only when those efforts pay off that you actually hear about them.  I don't know the percentages in non-profit development, but I would not be surprised if you told me that for every corporate donation we get, there are probably 20 donation requests that get turned down)

Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Alaric on March 29, 2014, 12:40:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Bos on March 29, 2014, 02:54:39 AM
Quote from: NIN on March 28, 2014, 09:41:54 PM
I think I'm with Fred on this: Opting out of your own organizations needs/attempts to fundraise for programs is like saying "I only want to do the cool things. If it looks like work, have a cadet someone else do it."

Concur. I raise funds as a major component of my job, and there's nothing wrong with asking the folks that benefit from their affiliation with an organization to give if they choose to.

I disagree, I donate money and time locally, where the work gets done, if NHQ wants money, let them get it from outside sources rather than diverting from the local units
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: jimmydeanno on March 29, 2014, 09:29:48 PM
Quote from: Alaric on March 29, 2014, 12:40:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Bos on March 29, 2014, 02:54:39 AM
Quote from: NIN on March 28, 2014, 09:41:54 PM
I think I'm with Fred on this: Opting out of your own organizations needs/attempts to fundraise for programs is like saying "I only want to do the cool things. If it looks like work, have a cadet someone else do it."

Concur. I raise funds as a major component of my job, and there's nothing wrong with asking the folks that benefit from their affiliation with an organization to give if they choose to.

I disagree, I donate money and time locally, where the work gets done, if NHQ wants money, let them get it from outside sources rather than diverting from the local units

They haven't diverted anything.  Either you gave your money to the local unit or you didn't.  If you didn't, then you sending NHQ a check didn't take anything away from your local unit.  If your local unit isn't asking its members for contributions to scholarship funds, etc., then there isn't anything to contribute to that NHQ is "diverting" money from.

Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: abdsp51 on March 29, 2014, 09:42:07 PM
Got the same letter and it promptly went into the trash.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Ed Bos on March 30, 2014, 02:27:05 AM
Quote from: Alaric on March 29, 2014, 12:40:44 PM
I disagree, I donate money and time locally, where the work gets done, if NHQ wants money, let them get it from outside sources rather than diverting from the local units

I reject your premise that we're discussing a "zero sum game." If you're tapped out after giving at the local level, that's great, and thank you for your financial contribution in addition to your commitment of time and talent.

Not everyone is without means to give to their local unit as well as support a program of national scope, like the scholarship and endowment outlined in the letter.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: PA Guy on March 30, 2014, 06:37:47 AM
^^^^^^^^
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: TSEEKER on April 15, 2014, 07:36:03 PM
Well with a full timer in that position, surely they would be looking for 5 to 8 times his salary for money coming in.  If you are in development and you aren't doing that than you won't be in development.  I think most members locally in squadrons are supporting their respective units and likely will continue.  Perhaps it doesn't hurt to try something on a national scale, BUT realistically it should be external to the organization.  Getting "in kind" donations versus monetary can also help.   Likely those Aerospace grants were written by the aerospace section and not the development person, but I could be wrong.
JH 
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on September 09, 2014, 08:35:19 PM
"Ways to Better Protect Your Kids"

That's the subject of the message I received today.  NHQ is now in the estate planning and advice business.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: JeffDG on September 09, 2014, 10:01:58 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on September 09, 2014, 08:35:19 PM
"Ways to Better Protect Your Kids"

That's the subject of the message I received today.  NHQ is now in the estate planning and advice business.
And the best way to "protect your kids" is to make a bequest to CAP I bet...
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: raivo on September 10, 2014, 12:30:17 AM
I reported it as abuse, because a professional organization turning to third party marketing companies to try and make a buck off its members is pretty [darn] abusive if you ask me.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Alaric on September 10, 2014, 02:53:00 AM
Quote from: raivo on September 10, 2014, 12:30:17 AM
I reported it as abuse, because a professional organization turning to third party marketing companies to try and make a buck off its members is pretty [darn] abusive if you ask me.

Obviously the powers that be don't think so
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: usafcap1 on September 11, 2014, 05:43:13 PM
CAP

Come And Pay
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: PHall on September 12, 2014, 12:42:28 AM
Quote from: usafcap1 on September 11, 2014, 05:43:13 PM
CAP

Come And Pay

Cash and Plastic
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on September 12, 2014, 01:02:19 AM
Commanders Always Pay.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: sarmed1 on September 12, 2014, 12:49:30 PM
QuoteThe Wing Leadership continues to host one of the nations most expensive cadet Encampments, that frankly provides nothing more than a place for Cadets to march around at for a week.  Where there are Air Force installations, the Wing continues to use facilities that are owned by the Army National Guard, and who charge such terribly high rates for everything
.

Not to derail, but which Air Force installations? There are no active air force bases in pa, the only "Installations" are small air guard or air reserve stations.  These typically do not have the space/availability to support encampment size activities.  Also one is at the far western side of the state.

Sorry....just wondering
MK
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: NC Hokie on September 12, 2014, 12:55:27 PM
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on September 12, 2014, 01:02:19 AM
Commanders Always Pay.

Followed shortly by Commanders Are Poor.  >:D
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: sarmed1 on September 12, 2014, 01:18:12 PM
Possible reasoning:  my last full time job was in full swing to raise funds to build a new ambulance building (large scale).  They basically did the same thing, beg donations from the employees (called the 15 min club- you donated 15 min of your pay a week to the building fund, and got a yet to be seen brick with your name on it on some decorative walkway).  They had a professional fundraiser er marketing director at the time.  I asked her once why:  she said most large donors (major corporations and foundations)  ask what kind of internal fund raising you are attempting as well before they open up their wallet.  (she also said they don't really care how successful it is, only that you are trying something)

MK
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: raivo on September 14, 2014, 09:02:32 PM
In related news, I got an e-mail from the COWG/CC last night, which included a link where I could find out about the "impossible (but real) technology that could make you impossibly rich."

This is getting ridiculous - I'm supposed to be a member of a professional organization, not a marketing target.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: lordmonar on September 14, 2014, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: raivo on September 14, 2014, 09:02:32 PM
In related news, I got an e-mail from the COWG/CC last night, which included a link where I could find out about the "impossible (but real) technology that could make you impossibly rich."

This is getting ridiculous - I'm supposed to be a member of a professional organization, not a marketing target.
Your signature says you are a Capt in the USAF......need I say more then CFC, AFAF, Top Three, Unit Booser Cllub, CGO, Cheif's Council.   

If the COWG/CC is using the CAP mail list to further his personal buisness.....that's a no-no...if his e-mail got hacked and it slipped your spam filter.....that happens.....I get hundrends of those sort of things from people I know....heck I get BS like that on my military computer at work.

As for CAP asking for more money.....it is voluntary....just ignore and no harm done.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: arajca on September 14, 2014, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: raivo on September 14, 2014, 09:02:32 PM
In related news, I got an e-mail from the COWG/CC last night, which included a link where I could find out about the "impossible (but real) technology that could make you impossibly rich."

This is getting ridiculous - I'm supposed to be a member of a professional organization, not a marketing target.
The COWG/CC is using a commercial free email account. Every one of these tags every email with some kind of ad.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: arajca on September 14, 2014, 09:47:39 PM
It was mentioned that the development guy need to show that members support the organization. The problem is he is going about it wrong. He should ask members for estimates of their annual CAP spending, excluding dues and personal uniforms/accessories. That would provide, IMHO, a large enough number to show significant financial buy-in of the members.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on September 15, 2014, 12:38:26 AM
Quote from: arajca on September 14, 2014, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: raivo on September 14, 2014, 09:02:32 PM
In related news, I got an e-mail from the COWG/CC last night, which included a link where I could find out about the "impossible (but real) technology that could make you impossibly rich."

This is getting ridiculous - I'm supposed to be a member of a professional organization, not a marketing target.
The COWG/CC is using a commercial free email account. Every one of these tags every email with some kind of ad.

Nothing shouts "professional" louder then a Cialis ad in an official email from someone with an eagle.

#2 are meaningless privacy disclaimers.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Spaceman3750 on September 15, 2014, 02:22:10 AM

Quote from: Eclipse on September 15, 2014, 12:38:26 AM
Quote from: arajca on September 14, 2014, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: raivo on September 14, 2014, 09:02:32 PM
In related news, I got an e-mail from the COWG/CC last night, which included a link where I could find out about the "impossible (but real) technology that could make you impossibly rich."

This is getting ridiculous - I'm supposed to be a member of a professional organization, not a marketing target.
The COWG/CC is using a commercial free email account. Every one of these tags every email with some kind of ad.

Nothing shouts "professional" louder then a Cialis ad in an official email from someone with an eagle.

#2 are meaningless privacy disclaimers.

I ran into a public wing website once that had a FOUO and "protected from interception" notice at the bottom of their pages. I should have sent them the bill for the keyboard.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: JeffDG on September 15, 2014, 01:22:41 PM
Quote from: arajca on September 14, 2014, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: raivo on September 14, 2014, 09:02:32 PM
In related news, I got an e-mail from the COWG/CC last night, which included a link where I could find out about the "impossible (but real) technology that could make you impossibly rich."

This is getting ridiculous - I'm supposed to be a member of a professional organization, not a marketing target.
The COWG/CC is using a commercial free email account. Every one of these tags every email with some kind of ad.

That's why I like Google Apps for Nonprofits.  No ads.
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Johnny Yuma on October 26, 2014, 10:41:22 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on September 15, 2014, 12:38:26 AM
Quote from: arajca on September 14, 2014, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: raivo on September 14, 2014, 09:02:32 PM
In related news, I got an e-mail from the COWG/CC last night, which included a link where I could find out about the "impossible (but real) technology that could make you impossibly rich."

This is getting ridiculous - I'm supposed to be a member of a professional organization, not a marketing target.
The COWG/CC is using a commercial free email account. Every one of these tags every email with some kind of ad.



Nothing shouts "professional" louder then a Cialis ad in an official email from someone with an eagle.

#2 are meaningless privacy disclaimers.
Considering the average age of CAP pilots, those ads are probably very successful reaching their target audience >:D
Title: Re: CAP wants more of my money
Post by: Eclipse on October 27, 2014, 12:16:48 AM
^ For a number of reasons, CAP members seem to be a prime demographic for spammers and other malware, adware,
and con artists.

To those scoring at home...

No, it wasn't "worth a shot to resend this message even though you knew it was probably a scam"

No we do not care about some kid in Elbonia who wants to receive a record number of post cards.

No, Facebook, Microsoft, Google, Twitter, or any other major company will send you $###.## if you resend / tweet / InstaVine
this message, nor are they shutting down or going to start charging for their free services.

We also don't care when the cousin of the Mailman of the coworker of the sister-in-law of someone who hasn't been
a member for 20 years goes in for lapband surgery, or the Assistant Director of Looking Out the Window's goldfish has dysentery.

Etc., Etc.