How to encourage/require cadet executive staff to attend Wing activities

[xray328]

Hey guys.  Do you think that that your cadet executive staff (top 3) should be required to attend both spring/summer encamapments and the wings low level cadet focused activities (maybe throw in a few fundraisers)?  If so, how do you require that they do that other then telling them they need to be there?  What if they can't or won't go?

I feel like their attendance is really important in encouraging new cadets to get involved as well.   We have around 10 cadets that attend meetings, Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

[BFreemanMA]

I agree in that cadet attendance at events is good for encouraging new cadets. It also sets an expectation and showcases leading by example. We've found that our cadets and SMs stay on-board the longest when they're involved with activities outside our normal meeting night (real-life allowing)

For our squadron, we have events (nearly) every other week, so the expectation is that our SMs and cadets step up to assist when able. We have two or so "major" events (air show and Wreaths) where we need all-hands-on-deck and we expect everyone to be there unless they have a valid reason (work, sick, etc). No-call/no-shows or other members not pulling their weight will be noted in a promotion board. I would view Wing events as similar to squadron events in that Wing needs people to show up and help. CAP is a volunteer organization and we need volunteers to do our jobs!

[xray328]

So if a cadet won't go we hold promotion? Seems like there's always an excuse. Does that fall into "Participate Actively"?

[AlphaSigOU]

Baseball bat, dimension lumber, golf club...

Seriously, I wouldn't mind seeing a cadet professional development program incorporated for Phase III and Phase IV.

[Alaric]

Hey guys.  Do you think that that your cadet executive staff (top 3) should be required to attend both spring/summer encamapments and the wings low level cadet focused activities (maybe throw in a few fundraisers)?  If so, how do you require that they do that other then telling them they need to be there?  What if they can't or won't go?

I feel like their attendance is really important in encouraging new cadets to get involved as well.   We have around 10 cadets that attend meetings, Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

Unless you plan to pay their way, you can not "require" them to attend encampment at all, never mind both. 

[xray328]

If that's what it takes I would. Hoping we can use squadron funds though through fundraising efforts to get any cadet to go that truly can't afford it versus using that as an excuse.  I'm trying to remove the excuses.

[Alaric]

If that's what it takes I would. Hoping we can use squadron funds though through fundraising efforts to get any cadet to go that truly can't afford it versus using that as an excuse.  I'm trying to remove the excuses.

In my mind you still can't "require it" especially for promotion.  Though promotions are not automatic, you cannot add requirements that are not in the regulations, if the cadet is not mature enough, or not able to handle additional responsibility, retain them in grade.  If they can't attend a week long (or two weekend) activity multiple times, as the cadets hit high school, many will have summer jobs, wish to go to NCSAs, or pursue academic activities.  Promotions should be based on the regulatory requirements and maturity of the cadets

5-2. Cadet Promotions

d. Promotion Boards. Although not required, squadrons may hold promotion boards (sometimes called boards of review), to help the commander decide if cadets are ready to accept the increased responsibilities that come with their promotions. If used, promotion boards must meet the following criteria:
(1) A completed CAPF 50 must serve as the promotion board's basis for discussion.
(2) Promotion boards will not re-test cadets on material they already passed through achievement tests.
(3) Commanders must apply local promotion board policies consistently, with all cadets being subject to the same process.
e. Retaining a Cadet in Grade. Commanders should retain a cadet in grade if the cadet's performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander (or deputy commander) will offer constructive feedback to help the cadet develop his/her leadership skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.

[xray328]

Fair enough. Any suggestions then?

I really want them to "want to go" versus "go or else". I want the executive staff to understand the importance their attendance plays.

[NC Hokie]

Fair enough. Any suggestions then?

Why aren't your cadets participating in wing activities?  You can't do much about jobs, sports, and family commitments, but rides and expenses can be overcome.

[TheSkyHornet]

Unless you plan to pay their way, you can not "require" them to attend encampment at all, never mind both.

While I would like to see a much greater cadet participation at some events, especially as they get higher up and you start to see a lot of cadets slump off because they get comfortable with where they're at, I agree with the fact that you cannot force them to attend something if you're going to make them pay for it out of their own pocket.

We've already asked them to pay the membership fee to be in the program, the cost of uniforms if they couldn't get any supplied by their squadron, and we would begin the discussion if we mandated them to start paying for more activities that we would tell them they must attend.

It could be factored in that they can't promote past a certain level without attending ### courses or encampments, but we need to be very careful if we're going to make them pay their way to advance in CAP.

[xray328]

I need to dig a little deeper. Just looking for advice before I do. I'm guessing it's what you mentioned though.

It's a tough thing. I don't want anyone to pay to promote. But we need them at these things to encourage younger cadets to attend. I don't want to focus on requiring encampments, while seeing them there would be nice, I'm more talking about local cheap fun things we do specifically to improve morale and cadet retention.

[Alaric]

Fair enough. Any suggestions then?

I really want them to "want to go" versus "go or else". I want the executive staff to understand the importance their attendance plays.

If they want to go, they will.  If they don't they won't.  I for one, am not a huge fan of cadets attending multiple encampments, unless they are staff, and even then one time per position.  This way this allows new cadets to have leadership opportunities.

[xray328]

How about just supporting local activities? Fundraisers, recruiting days at the local air show? What do you do when they keep saying they can't make it?

[THRAWN]

How about just supporting local activities? Fundraisers, recruiting days at the local air show? What do you do when they keep saying they can't make it?

Say "okey dokey" and ask them the next time around. You're looking at kids who have already given beaucoup time to the program, as well as getting involved in school stuff, jobs, dating, a car, the Rocky Horror Picture Show and what ever other civic group they're involved in. Can you compel participation? Nope. Can you hold up promotions? Doubtful. Just remember, they are as much of a volunteer as you are. Most of the Cadets in the class that you're asking about are pretty high speed, and spread really thin. Unless Professor McGonigle gave them a time turner recently, there are only 24 hours in a day....

[MSG Mac]

As noted you cannot "require attendance at Wing events, encampments, and other activities. But you can put participation in these events as part of their job description.

[arajca]

Salesmanship. Find an appropriate angle and sell the activity. One of my cadets 'discovered' there's a whole lot more leadership challenge and learning during an encampment than he thought. He is pushing that angle to other cadets and is applying for other encampments to gain that kind of experience. It's a different kind of leadership than you get in sports or other school activities.

[Eaker Guy]

I need to dig a little deeper. Just looking for advice before I do. I'm guessing it's what you mentioned though.

I'm more talking about local cheap fun things we do specifically to improve morale and cadet retention.

But if they are executive staff, they better show up week after week. Otherwise they could not be depended on. Serving on cadet executive staff is the retention. They have a reason to be there. If that's a problem, no activity can fix that.

As for the current question, I highly recommend the executive staff at my squadron to participate in Wing, Region, and National level activities. However, I do not mandate it nor do I put it in their job description, because they do have lives outside of CAP. I have only attended the MER-RCLS, 1 year of NHGA, and basic encampment; all of which I found beneficial. Through my time as a cadet, I've seen cadets that have benefited greatly from RCLS/COS type activities, and those that haven't. From a cadet standpoint, mandating that cadet executive staff attend such activities isn't a good idea. As THRAWN stated, cadets put in beaucoup time into CAP. If they can attend, fine. If not, fine. I wouldn't hold back a cadet from serving as cadet executive staff just because he/she didn't attend RCLS/COS/etc... My cadet staff is very dedicated, and although I'm sure that attending more activities would prove beneficial to them, I see no reason to question their time commitment to CAP, or their fitness to serve on staff. They do everything in their control to serve the squadron, and I am very proud of them.

--C/Maj Kiss
Cadet Commander, Hagerstown Composite Squadron

[Alaric]

How about just supporting local activities? Fundraisers, recruiting days at the local air show? What do you do when they keep saying they can't make it?

Maybe they can't make it many cadets are working and involved in school activities, carving out the one night a week can be an effort for them

[Eaker Guy]

Fair enough. Any suggestions then?

I really want them to "want to go" versus "go or else". I want the executive staff to understand the importance their attendance plays.

If they want to go, they will.  If they don't they won't.  I for one, am not a huge fan of cadets attending multiple encampments, unless they are staff, and even then one time per position.  This way this allows new cadets to have leadership opportunities.

Agreed.

[Capt Thompson]

Aside from meeting nights, Cadet staff should be spending time outside of CAP working on CAP business, i.e. schedules, prepping classes, recruiting etc. When I was a Cadet Commander I spent more hours at home working on CAP business than I spent at meetings. Add that to school activities, ROTC, sports etc, I was only able to make 1 Encampment and didn't make it to many Wing activities.

Aside from bringing participation up at promotion boards, there isn't anything you can do to mandate it. We don't put Cadets on staff in the Squadron to fill spots at Wing activities, if they are actively participating at the Squadron level weekly, that is all that is expected of them. I agree it would be great if they would support these activities, but we can't say that our fundraiser this weekend is more important than the basketball tournament or band camp or whatever that they've already committed to.

If you didn't value them as an asset to your Squadron, they wouldn't be in the positions they are. If they bring value to your weekly meeting, try to get them to go to the other stuff and if they make it, good on them. If not, remember they are just volunteers, they agreed to give you a few hours a week, and should be appreciated for doing so, not beaten down for not giving more.

[BillB]

One program I developed was to have a Cadet Professional Development Weekend. C/CMst and above was the target group for the training. The concept was to present the cadets with training by senior member staff on their duty assignments so cadets could get a better understanding of the objectives and missions of staff positions. It also included an afternoon session taught by Advanced AFROTC (not AFJROTC) cadets from the University on leadership. Since the average cadet has no idea what a senior members duties and responsibilities are, it broadens there understanding of how CAP operates. Many cadets know the functions of a PAO, or Admin Officer, but don't know what a Logistics officer, or even Historian do. Since it's a local or immediate area activity, cost is just lunch for the cadets (not an overnight activity unless done as a full weekend bivouac with rest rooms and mess facilities available. While the plans for this activity never went further, a followup activity would have included table top exercise in leadership problems taught by USAFR officers or retired USAF Officers field grade or above.
A program like this can be developed at the local level the the DCC or CC, but in my opinion NHQ should provide guidelines and a basic plan for such an activity.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Started a longer reply but here's the short version.

I try never to mandate but I do have a long talk with prospective cadets and SM about commitments and priorities - school first for cadets, family first for SM, time management etc.  I point out that you get back what you invest and more.  When we get to the stage of placing someone - cadet or SM - into a position, we (staff and prospective Whatever) have a serious talk about the time required for the job and talk about whether the person can do this at all, do it for a long time or do it only for a short time.  Decision based on the outcome.   

The reflection I use, as much for me as anyone else, is the experience I had when I was first selected to be a lay preacher in my church.  That was in the UK.  My supervising minister (parish priest) had me involved in **everything**, and I had zero family time as a result.  That led to me being ready to stop doing what I was doing!  We worked it out but, by contrast, the Warden, who mentored all of us in a geographical area, would ask any volunteer in his parish one question: what can you give me?  He then worked what was offered into the plan.  Gradually, people felt more willing to give more, or not base don their own talents and availability.

For me, that is a model that works.

YMMV, and just my few cents worth of comment!

[vorteks]

Since the average cadet has no idea what a senior members duties and responsibilities are,

The same might be said about a lot of senior members, but I digress...   

[TheSkyHornet]

Since the average cadet has no idea what a senior members duties and responsibilities are,

The same might be said about a lot of senior members, but I digress...   

A lot of seniors don't understand cadet responsibilities. A lot of seniors don't understand each other's respective responsibilities.

A key part to learning how to do your job is learning what another job does. That doesn't mean completely cross-train and know the ins and outs of someone else's position, but to develop an understanding of the various roles that make an organization run effectively and efficiently.

I'm finding that in composite squadrons it is sometimes hard to get seniors to get out and do more. Cadets are generally pretty good once they're parents are on-board with the scheduling of an event. But a lot of composite squadrons, including my own, are very much cadet-oriented and really don't have a whole lot of senior activities for themselves.

Lead by example.

[xray328]

I'm a new Senior member and even newer in the role of assistant to the Deputy Commander of Cadets which is why I come on here to hear all sides and seek counsel before implementing anything. So I genuinely appreciate everyone's feedback.

In my opinion, if we sit down at the selection board and explain to a prospective executive cadet officer that we need them to lead by example and attend event x y and z, I think that's fair. If the cadet doesn't feel that they have the time or can't commit to that, that's perfectly fine. But the expectations have been laid out ahead of time.

In the same way, the responsibilities of my position were explained to me before I took the job. I accepted those and  will do my darnedest to do them to the best of my ability.

I plan on attending all and any events I ask my cadets to be at including fundraisers, encampments (training officer), or fun Wing level cadet initiatives. It's 3-4, events a year and while I understand that we are all volunteers, we also need to do what we can to support the organization and the roles we've chosen to take on.  In my opinion, cadet officers need to attend ATS/Zulu flights at encampments because it makes them better leaders at home. Part of what we do is to train them to be leaders, I think these advance leadership schools play an important role in that. And by my executive staff attending these it sets the example for the rest of the cadets.

Of course school comes first, but I just don't think 3 or 4 events a year that you know about months in advance is too much to ask from cadets that are being placed in some of the most important positions within the cadet side of the squadron.

[SarDragon]

In my opinion, if we sit down at the selection board and explain to a prospective executive cadet officer that we need them to lead by example and attend event x y and z, I think that's fair. If the cadet doesn't feel that they have the time or can't commit to that, that's perfectly fine. But the expectations have been laid out ahead of time.

As explained before, you cannot add requirements for promotion. If a cadet has completed the requirements, and fulfilled his duties properly, it is really hard to deny promotion because they haven't managed to attend any event(s) outside the unit.

Of course school comes first, but I just don't think 3 or 4 events a year that you know about months in advance is too much to ask from cadets that are being placed in some of the most important positions within the cadet side of the squadron.

Life doesn't work that way. I have had to cancel attendance at events that I have signed up for as much as a year in advance, because life events got in the way. You work with what you have, and move along.

[xray328]

I totally agree, life happens. But when the squadron commander asks who's interested in going and no one raises their hand months in advance something's  wrong. It's happened three times in a row.

And I never suggested we hold promotion, that was a possible suggestion to me and I just said "so we hold promotion?"

But I do think we can put in in the job description as Cadet Commander (or anyone assigned to executive staff) . If you apply for and accept the position, there's no excuse (outside of "life" happening).  And I'm not unreasonable, I'm not saying you have to be at everyone but if I have a Commander, Deputy Commander and XO/First Sgt, someone among the three should be there, I don't care who as long as it's not the same one every time.

Again, to me it's about setting the example, as a Senior or a Cadet.

[abdsp51]

Read the cadet staff handbook.  You can not place additional requirements for people to promote or hold positions. 

[xray328]

Can you please tell me where it says that in the cadet staff handbook? I see several references to the executive staff promoting excellence and representing the core values. It also says the position descriptions can be modified as commanders see fit (appendix 1) as long as expectations are set in advance.

Every level also has the "must participate actively in unit activities" requirement as well.

[abdsp51]

If it's not in the regs, handbooks or manuals you can not do it.
And I hope that these "expectations" have been placed in writing and thatcis the only participation required unit activities .  Not group, wing, region etc. 

Read the governing regs and documents.  You can not put additional requirements for advancement or staffing.

[xray328]

What's this mean then?

"Commanders may adjust cadet position descriptions using common sense and good judgment. What is most important is that each cadet knows what is expected of him or her and receives some guidance as they begin their leadership assignment."

CAPP 52-15 Appendix 1

I'm not arguing, I'm looking for guidance.. If you can find a reg handbook or manual that says if you can't find it in the regs you can't do it I'd appreciate a reference.  Common sense and CPP applies of course.

I don't think requiring executive staff to attend one leadership training activity a year outside the squadron is unreasonable especially if that's explained during the interview.

[abdsp51]

Read the regs please.  You can not add additional requirements.

[xray328]

Which one? I referenced the one you stated and there's nothing in there that supports what you're saying. In fact it states the contrary. If there's a reg that supports what you're saying please share it.

First you said to read the 52-15, then you said if it's not in a reg handbook or manual you can't do it. Now your going back to read the regs, which is it?

This equates to do it because "they" said so...who's "they"? And where's this mysterious "reg"?

There's is simply no clear cut criteria for selecting a cadet commander or any other staff.  You can't add to something that doesn't exist. If you want to say "requiring that isn't a good idea because..." I'm down with that. But this "read the regs" deal (one you can't provide) isn't helpful.

If it exists, cool, no problem. But don't say it can't be done just because that's your opinion. 

Now on holding back a promotion, I totally agree. Promotions, for the most part, are you do x, y, z, you promote (of course it's still up to the squadron commander based on maturity etc). But when it comes to deciding who we select as cadet commander...there's a lot more that goes into it. 

The 52-15 states "Moreover, by conducting interviews you underline the fact that staff service is something that must be earned."

How does a cadet earn it? By simply going above and beyond what's required. I want that highly motivated, kick butt , take charge, and do what it takes individual.  Does that mean the cadet with a job, a girlfriend, and ten other things going on might not get selected? Sure.  But that applies to everything.

For instance, my son plays travel soccer. He also runs track, maintains a 4.7 GPA, coaches a rec team, has a gf, refs soccer games for some extra cash and several other things. As a result he doesn't play for the best soccer team in our area, and that's ok because he has too much going on outside of soccer to commit the time it requires to play at that level. Kids playing on the academy level clubs  have a soccer ball with them every chance they get, they go from school to the fields. They're either playing pick up games, or are at practices, or seeking out additional training. Soccer is their life, and as a result they play for the top teams. 

Same goes for CAP. Some kids are too busy with other things, and that's perfectly fine. But if you're going to be the best you can be at something you can't do it half way.  You can't say I want the top position, I want to be the best, but sorry I can't put in the time to achieve it.

[abdsp51]

The only requirements is active unit participation not group or above that is in 52-16.  If you make it a requirement then you as the CC or CDC then must foot the bill.  It's spelled out in 52-16 what is expected of cadets in the cadet program and for management of it. 

By nature of requiring "staff to participate" you are adding an additional requirement  which may impact their promotion. 

You can not mandate that your executive staff participate outside the unit to be on staff. 

You need to read the regs front to back across the board.  If it's not listed you can't do it that is common sense. But hey if you think I am wrong then please attempt to write a sup and get it approved by your wing and potentially region. 

[Alaric]

Can you please tell me where it says that in the cadet staff handbook? I see several references to the executive staff promoting excellence and representing the core values. It also says the position descriptions can be modified as commanders see fit (appendix 1) as long as expectations are set in advance.

Every level also has the "must participate actively in unit activities" requirement as well.

The unit is the squadron, not the Wing, which is why when asked for a unit its RRR-SS-XXX, cadets belong to squadrons and therefore must be active in that squadron, there is no onus on them to be active in Wing, Region, National activities above what is required for promotion (Encampment) and their own desires and budgets

[xray328]

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying.

That being said is there anything in the regs that state you can't require participation in x,y, or z if they want to be the commander for the purpose of setting the example?

[Alaric]

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying.

That being said is there anything in the regs that state you can't require participation in x,y, or z if they want to be the commander for the purpose of setting the example?

Only common sense, if you require such activities, you are limiting your leadership pool to those who have disposable time and money.  I wouldn't want to limit my squadron that way.  Also when inevitably a cadet complains up the chain of command (group, wing, etc) that they are being held back because their parents are working two jobs a piece and the cadet has a job and they don't have the money or time to go to x,y,z activity, you might have a problem.

[xray328]

That's true. So there's nothing we can do I guess except use prior attendances as a factor in the decision. 

[TheSkyHornet]

"Commanders may adjust cadet position descriptions using common sense and good judgment. What is most important is that each cadet knows what is expected of him or her and receives some guidance as they begin their leadership assignment."

This essentially means that the duties and responsibilities of those positions, including the wording describing the responsibilities for that position, can be manipulated/modified in order to achieve the greatest effectiveness and efficiency within the particular unit. Some squadrons are so dramatic in size that the roles of those positions may need to be tweaked for the scope of that squadron.

Our Cadet Commander recently sat down with the cadet who will be replacing him next weekend after Change of Command, and the two of them reorganized the squadron and included a new flight into the structure. They rewrote the job descriptions of each position, including the weekly tasks each person needs to perform to meet the requirements of that job.

That would be "adjusting" the descriptions so that each cadet knows what they are expected to do.

I'm currently preparing to take on the responsibilities of Deputy Commander for Cadets, myself. I have some ways to go with it since I still need to get more accustomed with the ins and outs of cadet training requirements, but for now I'm staying on as the Leadership and Activities Officer, so I'm the closest one to the cadets aside from the Commander, who still tracks their promotions.

[Eaker Guy]

Which one? I referenced the one you stated and there's nothing in there that supports what you're saying. In fact it states the contrary. If there's a reg that supports what you're saying please share it.

First you said to read the 52-15, then you said if it's not in a reg handbook or manual you can't do it. Now your going back to read the regs, which is it?

This equates to do it because "they" said so...who's "they"? And where's this mysterious "reg"?

There's is simply no clear cut criteria for selecting a cadet commander or any other staff.  You can't add to something that doesn't exist. If you want to say "requiring that isn't a good idea because..." I'm down with that. But this "read the regs" deal (one you can't provide) isn't helpful.

If it exists, cool, no problem. But don't say it can't be done just because that's your opinion. 

Now on holding back a promotion, I totally agree. Promotions, for the most part, are you do x, y, z, you promote (of course it's still up to the squadron commander based on maturity etc). But when it comes to deciding who we select as cadet commander...there's a lot more that goes into it. 

The 52-15 states "Moreover, by conducting interviews you underline the fact that staff service is something that must be earned."

How does a cadet earn it? By simply going above and beyond what's required. I want that highly motivated, kick butt , take charge, and do what it takes individual.  Does that mean the cadet with a job, a girlfriend, and ten other things going on might not get selected? Sure.  But that applies to everything.

For instance, my son plays travel soccer. He also runs track, maintains a 4.7 GPA, coaches a rec team, has a gf, refs soccer games for some extra cash and several other things. As a result he doesn't play for the best soccer team in our area, and that's ok because he has too much going on outside of soccer to commit the time it requires to play at that level. Kids playing on the academy level clubs  have a soccer ball with them every chance they get, they go from school to the fields. They're either playing pick up games, or are at practices, or seeking out additional training. Soccer is their life, and as a result they play for the top teams. 

Same goes for CAP. Some kids are too busy with other things, and that's perfectly fine. But if you're going to be the best you can be at something you can't do it half way.  You can't say I want the top position, I want to be the best, but sorry I can't put in the time to achieve it.

To use your example, would your son be willing to drop one or two soccer games to participate at CAP? I play soccer to, and I am a C/CC. Sometimes I am reluctant to drop soccer if I know that the activity is already well staffed. Then again, I give advanced notice to my people so they aren't surprised. However, if the some of the staff dropped out right before the activity , of course I would do down to help. Also, there are some activities that I absolutely have to be at, and I would drop soccer in a heartbeat. Participation has to be used in context.

I absolutely agree that a cadet has to go above and beyond to earn the position of C/CC. I'll use my squadron as an example. The last C/CC and myself both joined at the same time. We both progressed at the same rate. He was a C/1sgt and I was Colors Element Leader/Leadership Officer. Neither of us held flight positions(e.g. flight sergeant, flight commander), and we both had gone above and beyond with regards to our participation at activities. Now, when it came to selecting the C/CC, the senior staff looked at participation at events, but looked at leadership quality more. Unfortunately, I was lacking this at the time. So, my friend got the job, even though I had participated at more activities. Again, participation in context. It shouldn't be the deciding factor, but a factor among many factors.

Although I agree that a C/CC should have a positive attitude, be careful if you mentor him/her to be a kick butt, take charge, no holds barred kind of cadet. As a C/DC I was this, but now as a C/CC I am the focal point for all the cadets. I need to be as rational and calm as I am motivated.

I have to pick and choose often. If it's a soccer team commitment, it's very hard to choose. However, if it is a get together with friends, the choice is pretty simple. CAP!!!!! Again, use participation in context.

Make sense?

[xray328]

Sure does and I can tell you're squadron is very fortunate to have you.

In regards to soccer, his team last year had practices on our meeting night. He'd leave early and change in the car on the way over. He wants to attend the USAFA so it got to the point that we needed to focus more on what's going to get him in there versus what's not. It's a D1 school so odds are he won't play there. He's already playing Varsity soccer at school and running track (hoping Varsity there too before long) and that's what the academy wants to see versus travel soccer. So the compromise was that he's moving to a team closer to home that practices different days. He's in CAP mainly to gain leadership experience because sports don't allow him to join any clubs after school where he could get a leadership position in.

[TheSkyHornet]

I absolutely agree that a cadet has to go above and beyond to earn the position of C/CC.

I disagree here. A cadet should go above and beyond to earn the position of C/CC; however, in the real-world, that's not always the best available option.

If you have a smaller squadron, and not-so-experienced cadets available when the C/CC leaves, you may end up with someone who isn't preferable in that position, but that's what you have. This is when it becomes pertinent for Senior Members working with the cadets to step in and work alongside the C/CC to help coach them and build them up for the job. It becomes on-the-job training, since you aren't there to do the work for them. But you can act as a mentor and guide.

We used to have a C/Maj as our Cadet Commander a couple of years back. He left, and we ended up with a C/Capt. He left, and we ended up with a C/2dLt. He's leaving, and his replacement is a C/TSgt. Not the ideal scenario but this is what we have.

In the case where someone doesn't seem like they're a good fit for the position schedule-wise, you might need to sit down with this individual and talk with them about their options. Don't give them an ultimatum, but explain that it's a position in which you expect to see a lot of activity from them when it comes to being with the squadron for events. It involves a lot of face time and a lot of personal investment. And if they can't commit to that, you may need to find an alternative who can provide the leadership personality you need as well as the time to be that leader.

In the end, the cadets don't choose their Cadet Commander. The squadron commander does.

[Eaker Guy]

I absolutely agree that a cadet has to go above and beyond to earn the position of C/CC.

I disagree here. A cadet should go above and beyond to earn the position of C/CC; however, in the real-world, that's not always the best available option.

If you have a smaller squadron, and not-so-experienced cadets available when the C/CC leaves, you may end up with someone who isn't preferable in that position, but that's what you have. This is when it becomes pertinent for Senior Members working with the cadets to step in and work alongside the C/CC to help coach them and build them up for the job. It becomes on-the-job training, since you aren't there to do the work for them. But you can act as a mentor and guide.

We used to have a C/Maj as our Cadet Commander a couple of years back. He left, and we ended up with a C/Capt. He left, and we ended up with a C/2dLt. He's leaving, and his replacement is a C/TSgt. Not the ideal scenario but this is what we have.

In the case where someone doesn't seem like they're a good fit for the position schedule-wise, you might need to sit down with this individual and talk with them about their options. Don't give them an ultimatum, but explain that it's a position in which you expect to see a lot of activity from them when it comes to being with the squadron for events. It involves a lot of face time and a lot of personal investment. And if they can't commit to that, you may need to find an alternative who can provide the leadership personality you need as well as the time to be that leader.

In the end, the cadets don't choose their Cadet Commander. The squadron commander does.

What you say makes sense. To add onto it, your C/TSgt is already going above and beyond by performing a highly experienced officer's duties, so there it is. Excellence in all we do!

[xray328]

Very helpful Skyhornet,  thanks!

[foo]

I absolutely agree that a cadet has to go above and beyond to earn the position of C/CC.

I disagree here. A cadet should go above and beyond to earn the position of C/CC; however, in the real-world, that's not always the best available option.

If you have a smaller squadron, and not-so-experienced cadets available when the C/CC leaves, you may end up with someone who isn't preferable in that position, but that's what you have. This is when it becomes pertinent for Senior Members working with the cadets to step in and work alongside the C/CC to help coach them and build them up for the job. It becomes on-the-job training, since you aren't there to do the work for them. But you can act as a mentor and guide.

We used to have a C/Maj as our Cadet Commander a couple of years back. He left, and we ended up with a C/Capt. He left, and we ended up with a C/2dLt. He's leaving, and his replacement is a C/TSgt. Not the ideal scenario but this is what we have.

In the case where someone doesn't seem like they're a good fit for the position schedule-wise, you might need to sit down with this individual and talk with them about their options. Don't give them an ultimatum, but explain that it's a position in which you expect to see a lot of activity from them when it comes to being with the squadron for events. It involves a lot of face time and a lot of personal investment. And if they can't commit to that, you may need to find an alternative who can provide the leadership personality you need as well as the time to be that leader.

In the end, the cadets don't choose their Cadet Commander. The squadron commander does.

In your situation you might want to consider leaving the C/CC position vacant until cadets achieve rank "commensurate with the position." See "Tailoring the Challenge" in the Cadet Staff Handbook (52-15). My unit is very light on cadet officers, and having only a C/First Sergeant has worked well for us.

[Eaker Guy]

I absolutely agree that a cadet has to go above and beyond to earn the position of C/CC.

I disagree here. A cadet should go above and beyond to earn the position of C/CC; however, in the real-world, that's not always the best available option.

If you have a smaller squadron, and not-so-experienced cadets available when the C/CC leaves, you may end up with someone who isn't preferable in that position, but that's what you have. This is when it becomes pertinent for Senior Members working with the cadets to step in and work alongside the C/CC to help coach them and build them up for the job. It becomes on-the-job training, since you aren't there to do the work for them. But you can act as a mentor and guide.

We used to have a C/Maj as our Cadet Commander a couple of years back. He left, and we ended up with a C/Capt. He left, and we ended up with a C/2dLt. He's leaving, and his replacement is a C/TSgt. Not the ideal scenario but this is what we have.

In the case where someone doesn't seem like they're a good fit for the position schedule-wise, you might need to sit down with this individual and talk with them about their options. Don't give them an ultimatum, but explain that it's a position in which you expect to see a lot of activity from them when it comes to being with the squadron for events. It involves a lot of face time and a lot of personal investment. And if they can't commit to that, you may need to find an alternative who can provide the leadership personality you need as well as the time to be that leader.

In the end, the cadets don't choose their Cadet Commander. The squadron commander does.

In your situation you might want to consider leaving the C/CC position vacant until cadets achieve rank "commensurate with the position." See "Tailoring the Challenge" in the Cadet Staff Handbook (52-15). My unit is very light on cadet officers, and having only a C/First Sergeant has worked well for us.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Eaker Guy]

Skyhornet, hope this helps!

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19852.0

[Eaker Guy]

Sure does and I can tell you're squadron is very fortunate to have you.

In regards to soccer, his team last year had practices on our meeting night. He'd leave early and change in the car on the way over. He wants to attend the USAFA so it got to the point that we needed to focus more on what's going to get him in there versus what's not. It's a D1 school so odds are he won't play there. He's already playing Varsity soccer at school and running track (hoping Varsity there too before long) and that's what the academy wants to see versus travel soccer. So the compromise was that he's moving to a team closer to home that practices different days. He's in CAP mainly to gain leadership experience because sports don't allow him to join any clubs after school where he could get a leadership position in.

First of all, thanks for the compliment!

That and the academy loves CAP cadets!

[TheSkyHornet]

I'm not too concerned with a C/TSgt stepping up to the challenge. Our only C/MSgt, the brother of the departing Cadet Commandet, didn't want the position just yet as he felt he still had some work to do on himself.

Leadership is not just about taking the courses, but also identifying your own limitations and room for improvement. I think we will be fine with the way it's currently planned out. The important part is to make sure they have resources to go to when they struggle and need a bit of guidance, and those resources include having people they feel comfortable with when they have questions and concerns, not just regarding the job but also the progress of the squadron as a whole.

The cadets are just starting to get used to the new structure of their command. The next step will be working on the top-level leadership and helping them bring oversight and subsequent training (especially on-the-job) to their upper-tier subordinates. They have a lot of experience when it comes to the encampment and squadron-level leadership, but they need to work on conveying their abilities and adapting them to teaching others, not just repeating what they know.

Adaptive leadership is one of the hardest things, not so much to teach, but to perfect for yourself.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The idea behind the "tailored" structure is to give cadets a chance to be cadets, at the level they are.

If my highest ranking cadet is a C/TSgt, then we're going to have a Flight with him as the Flight Sergeant.

He gets to C/SMSgt, and there's two C/SSgts? Break it up, with two flights and flight sergeants and the C/SMSgt as the C/First Sergeant.

Got the Mitchell? Great! Welcome to the Flight Commander Model, with one of the NCOs becoming the First Shirt.

Etc, etc.

Under the "olde" and broken system, what's that C/MSgt to do after he's been the C/CC and tops out at his Mitchell having already "done" the top job?

It gives the cadets an idea of the structure, and the flow of promotions = positions.

[Spam]

Skyhornet:

Putting a C/NCO in as "Cadet Commander" is breaking the program, no matter how motivated the individual is.

You're doing him, and his fellows, a disservice by accepting this. With respect, sir, from my point of view, your narrative seems to indicate that your unit has accepted a gradual erosion of expectations, and deviation from the cadet program of record, in terms of appointing C/CCs, which might have contributed to your current situation.


Strongly recommend that you revisit CAPM 20-1 and cadet staff guide position descriptions, redesignate this cadet as NCOIC (Flight SGT, not Flight Commander, which is a cadet officer billet) chartered with grade-appropriate direct leadership tasks, and have a staff meeting among the senior member CP staff to reassume all the indirect leadership tasks normally performed by functioning cadet officers (the goal-setting, planning, scheduling cycle, the metrics tracking process, and the mentoring and counseling thereof).  Your long-term program will benefit, and short term your ranking cadets will be able to excel where they are (as C/NCOs) and will be able to understudy and observe the officership you and your fellow officer staff will model for him/her.


You stated that you "used to have a C/Maj as our Cadet Commander a couple of years back. He left, and we ended up with a C/Capt. He left, and we ended up with a C/2dLt. He's leaving, and his replacement is a C/TSgt. Not the ideal scenario but this is what we have".  That, frankly, speaks volumes to me.

If you can accept that you are headed the wrong way, that's the first step to reexamining fixing your business. Best wishes to you as a new CDC.


V/R,
Spam

[TheSkyHornet]

Skyhornet:

Putting a C/NCO in as "Cadet Commander" is breaking the program, no matter how motivated the individual is.

You're doing him, and his fellows, a disservice by accepting this. With respect, sir, from my point of view, your narrative seems to indicate that your unit has accepted a gradual erosion of expectations, and deviation from the cadet program of record, in terms of appointing C/CCs, which might have contributed to your current situation.


Strongly recommend that you revisit CAPM 20-1 and cadet staff guide position descriptions, redesignate this cadet as NCOIC (Flight SGT, not Flight Commander, which is a cadet officer billet) chartered with grade-appropriate direct leadership tasks, and have a staff meeting among the senior member CP staff to reassume all the indirect leadership tasks normally performed by functioning cadet officers (the goal-setting, planning, scheduling cycle, the metrics tracking process, and the mentoring and counseling thereof).  Your long-term program will benefit, and short term your ranking cadets will be able to excel where they are (as C/NCOs) and will be able to understudy and observe the officership you and your fellow officer staff will model for him/her.


You stated that you "used to have a C/Maj as our Cadet Commander a couple of years back. He left, and we ended up with a C/Capt. He left, and we ended up with a C/2dLt. He's leaving, and his replacement is a C/TSgt. Not the ideal scenario but this is what we have".  That, frankly, speaks volumes to me.

If you can accept that you are headed the wrong way, that's the first step to reexamining fixing your business. Best wishes to you as a new CDC.


V/R,
Spam

First and foremast, I'm responsible for providing mentoring and guidance to the cadets, as well as helping them with cadet activities. I am not an acting CDC We don't have one. She recently departed CAP after letting her membership expire, having been absent from active participation with the squadron for several months. The squadron commander currently holds that responsibility, and, based on the regs, has the final say as to the structure and appointment of positions in the cadet component of the squadron. It isn't my ultimate decision, nor my responsibility to dictate what positions they nominate someone for and who the squadron commander approved to be Cadet Commander.

I've only been with the squadron, as an official member, since April. I had been poking around the squadron since March, but not a whole lot of insight into the history of the squadron prior to me being there. So, I don't know what issues they had in the past on the cadet side other than what I was told by the cadets regarding the previous CDC. Apparently, there was an ongoing issue. I don't have the full details as to what the issues were, so I can't correct all of them. I can go off existing knowledge and try to start with a clean slate. Once I get into the CDC role, I'll have a better opportunity to address the cadet command structure.

Like I said, a C/TSgt, to me, isn't an ideal person to have as Cadet Commander. But there isn't any authority on me to change the commander's decision. I should also mention that the C/TSgt in reference here is the son of the Deputy Commander for Seniors. Nepotism? I wouldn't go that far, but it could be contributing. Now, he has been under the wing as First Sergeant under the departing Cadet Commander, so I think he has enough insight into the position. The exiting Cadet Commander's younger brother is actually a C/MSgt, but he declined the position because he felt he wasn't ready.

When I joined the squadron, I spent a lot of time observing, and realizing how much work these guys and gals really needed, not just with the on-paper stuff like drill, but as developing leaders. The commander recognized this, as did the other Seniors, but they seemed to not have much confidence in themselves to help fix it. It's a work-in-progress, and I'm using the resources I have available to get there. There's been a bit of pushback on some things, and it takes a lot of time, but we're slowly getting there. I still have some road blocks in my way regarding my ability to actually make the call on some things, even when I make recommendations, so that's something to work on from the Senior side.

The squadron commander said get a new Cadet Commander. The cadets did just that. I might not agree with it in its entirety, but what I can do is work with those individuals assuming new leadership positions in the cadet corps and work with them so that they can do the job. Hopefully, by the time we need a new Cadet Commander when this one graduates high school in a few years, we'll have some much higher-grade cadet officers to help take on even greater leadership roles with a larger cadet unit.

This was the challenge I was presented with, and it came with certain barriers. I'm doing what I can under these circumstances.

[Eaker Guy]

Skyhornet:

My opinion differs slightly from our esteemed colleague Spam, but I think we both agree that assigning a C/TSgt to C/CC duties is a bit much. However, unlike Spam, I do think he could serve as a Flight Commander, if he is ready. You could then assign the C/MSgt as the flight sergeant. I don't know about the other cadets, but from the way you sounded these are you two ranking cadets. I don't know how many cadets you have, but I am a C/CC of around 15-20 active cadets. I'm telling you, it is very, very, very hard. Unless this C/TSgt possess superhuman leadership skills, it may be wise to wait until a more opportune time rolls around. If you do indeed assign the C/TSgt to Flight Commander, have him take a look at the duties of a Flight Commander and ask him/her to seriously think about his fitness for the task. If he/she says "yes, I can do it," then do it. Simple, no?

I don't completely agree with Capt Hatkevich with regards to assigning cadets based solely on grade, although in a perfect world that is what it would look like. I've seen a couple cadets buy into the "promotions = positions" model, and because of their constant drive to promote, promote, promote, they loose focus of their current duties on their way to the top, only to realize that they haven't gained enough experience to do the top job.

BTW I don't have a problem with a C/2d Lt as a C/CC, as long as he could do the job and learned from the experience!

Best wishes,

C/Maj Kiss, CAP

[TheSkyHornet]

Skyhornet:

My opinion differs slightly from our esteemed colleague Spam, but I think we both agree that assigning a C/TSgt to C/CC duties is a bit much. However, unlike Spam, I do think he could serve as a Flight Commander, if he is ready. You could then assign the C/MSgt as the flight sergeant. I don't know about the other cadets, but from the way you sounded these are you two ranking cadets. I don't know how many cadets you have, but I am a C/CC of around 15-20 active cadets. I'm telling you, it is very, very, very hard. Unless this C/TSgt possess superhuman leadership skills, it may be wise to wait until a more opportune time rolls around. If you do indeed assign the C/TSgt to Flight Commander, have him take a look at the duties of a Flight Commander and ask him/her to seriously think about his fitness for the task. If he/she says "yes, I can do it," then do it. Simple, no?

I don't completely agree with Capt Hatkevich with regards to assigning cadets based solely on grade, although in a perfect world that is what it would look like. I've seen a couple cadets buy into the "promotions = positions" model, and because of their constant drive to promote, promote, promote, they loose focus of their current duties on their way to the top, only to realize that they haven't gained enough experience to do the top job.

BTW I don't have a problem with a C/2d Lt as a C/CC, as long as he could do the job and learned from the experience!

Best wishes,

C/Maj Kiss, CAP

Keep in mind, I'm not assigning anyone to anything. I don't have that authority, myself.

But, the cadets did ask me to sit with them to help with the restructure, the way the commander approved it, and I did what I could to coach them with a system I think would work better than what they originally had drawn up. It's slowly kicking in and we're starting to see some positive results, but it will take time.

The C/MSgt is indeed the First Sergeant now, and we have another C/TSgt as a Flight Commander, and a C/SSgt as a Training Flight Commander for newbies and those needed some extra practice with drill.

For me, it was extremely preferable to have our C/LtCol stay on as C/CC. I'm not sure what happened entirely in the past, but he had a falling out with the then-CDC and walked out. He came back about a year later and couldn't assume his former role, which was already filled by the CDC's son, who left because of school. The CDC then made the recommendation that the C/LtCol shouldn't resume the role as C/CC, and it was handed off to a C/2dLt. So you can see the systemic leadership failure here that led to this whole debacle. Now that the C/2dLt and C/LtCol are going off to college this month, we lost two very active cadet officers who really went out of their way to act as such.

Like I said, the C/TSgt assuming the position of C/CC is the squadron Deputy Commander's son, so you can see how that plays out. I'm confident he can do the job with some assistance, and I'll do my best to work with him over the next few months on-the-side so that he and the C/MSgt can be run things on their own. I think it will be fine, but it's not an overnight switch.

I'd love to have things my way. But not only do I not run the cadet command as a cadet, I don't run it as a Senior, nor do I have the decision under my power to take charge on the matter. As a Senior Member, I'm still required to follow the orders I receive from my commander.

But I appreciate the feedback, especially from cadet officers on this subject. And xray, I hope I didn't steal your thread here

[Tim Day]

I've had great success following the suggestions in the cadet staff handbook and configuring the cadet leadership structure according to the grades of the cadets in my unit. Leaving the C/CC position unfilled until we had a C/Capt wasn't popular, but worked out really well for the cadets and our squadron's program.

[TheSkyHornet]

I've had great success following the suggestions in the cadet staff handbook and configuring the cadet leadership structure according to the grades of the cadets in my unit. Leaving the C/CC position unfilled until we had a C/Capt wasn't popular, but worked out really well for the cadets and our squadron's program.

Don't disagree at all there. There's a subculture mindset in the squadron that they can take anyone, no matter how inexperienced, and build him/her up to be on top, which is true, but that's exactly why you have training and promotions associated for the amount of time in and the amount of training logged. To build someone's experience, you provide training until they have the time-in-grade, skill set, and overall knowledge appropriate to be at that level of service. This is why a chain of command is structured around a certain rank/grade expectation.

One of the biggest issues you see in an organization is the ability to downsize the organization to compensate for manpower and expertise. Maybe someone shouldn't be a manager with absolute authority until they have served as a supervisor and have received enough training and experience to become the manager, director, and so on.

But in my own case, this is what I was handed. It isn't popular on my end. I've said my concerns, and I've received the feedback. It's time to move on and accept that my opinion wasn't regarded as the majority's, so I have to go with the situation as it exists.

The squadron wants a C/CC, and is willing to accept a C/TSgt in that role. The Chain of Command approves of it. So, I'll do what I can to make it work, and if it doesn't, we'll go from there, planning in advance enough to have a secondary work-around if necessary.

One thing I do like is that the exiting C/CC and the new C/CC sat down together and wrote up, together, a set of duties and responsibilities for each position in the cadet chain of command. So at least everyone knows what their job entails. Now it's a matter of executing, supervising, and reviewing.

[Spam]

Skyhornet (and xray),

Could I suggest that perhaps both of your situations would be excellent discussion topics for you to take with you to a TLC (Training Leaders of Cadets) class, as a sort of "leadership retreat" for your staff? Your issues are absolutely on target perfect for TLC discussions.

There's a "critical mass" effect when you get a bunch of CP people together in a loosely structured environment to work through cadet staffing and manning and advancement issues like these, and that's what TLC is for - it is in the curriculum.  I've seen teams from the same unit come into the TLCs I've taught with very similar issues, mull them over quietly together in a corner, ask for and debate different points, and arrive at solutions they'd never thought of before that worked out very well for their home units.


Sky, two other quick points: 1. whether a cadet subjectively "thinks" he can do a job isn't material to whether he is empirically ready to abandon his progress mid point through direct leadership training to take on the most senior indirect leader position possible, thus supervising other cadets in what he hasn't himself accomplished. 2. Apparently term limits and progression haven't been part of your units consideration, if your new C/TSGT is being installed for a couple of years as you say, so I'd again strongly suggest to take your CC with you to TLC to read through these parts of the program.


And finally, C/Maj Kiss, good on you for disagreeing with me. This is just the place for it!


V/R,
Spam

[Eaker Guy]

Spam,

I didn't disagree, I just didn't completely agree.

[xray328]

That's a great idea Spam, will do.  I was wanting to get to one of those anyway.

[Spam]

Spam,

I didn't disagree, I just didn't completely agree.

Oh, good Lord, you're headed for JAG duty some day, aren't you?


Cheers,
Spam

[Storm Chaser]

We can debate opinions all day long, but opinions are only as good as the experience, training and education of those who have them. Everyone's opinions are going to be shaped by those three things and will vary or differ accordingly.

All that said, I believe the Cadet Staff Handbook does a pretty good job at addressing the different cadet structures based on size and grade composition of a unit. Of course, those are not the only things to consider. But the Cadet Staff Handbook provides enough flexibility to tailor a cadet org chart according to unit needs and cadet development. At the end, there's no perfect structure for every unit, but whatever structure is chosen must take into account not only the ability, experience, training, progression and maturity of a cadet to assume a particular role, but their development in the program at the time of the appointment and later on.

[Eaker Guy]

Spam,

I didn't disagree, I just didn't completely agree.

Oh, good Lord, you're headed for JAG duty some day, aren't you?


Cheers,
Spam

Thought about it!

[TheSkyHornet]

Skyhornet (and xray),

Could I suggest that perhaps both of your situations would be excellent discussion topics for you to take with you to a TLC (Training Leaders of Cadets) class, as a sort of "leadership retreat" for your staff? Your issues are absolutely on target perfect for TLC discussions.

There's a "critical mass" effect when you get a bunch of CP people together in a loosely structured environment to work through cadet staffing and manning and advancement issues like these, and that's what TLC is for - it is in the curriculum.  I've seen teams from the same unit come into the TLCs I've taught with very similar issues, mull them over quietly together in a corner, ask for and debate different points, and arrive at solutions they'd never thought of before that worked out very well for their home units.


Sky, two other quick points: 1. whether a cadet subjectively "thinks" he can do a job isn't material to whether he is empirically ready to abandon his progress mid point through direct leadership training to take on the most senior indirect leader position possible, thus supervising other cadets in what he hasn't himself accomplished. 2. Apparently term limits and progression haven't been part of your units consideration, if your new C/TSGT is being installed for a couple of years as you say, so I'd again strongly suggest to take your CC with you to TLC to read through these parts of the program.


And finally, C/Maj Kiss, good on you for disagreeing with me. This is just the place for it!


V/R,
Spam

Very much agreed with some of the points in here.

I think those of us who are supposed to interact regularly with the authority/chain of command part of the cadet program, including myself, commander, and deputy commander, could really benefit from a TLC course. There aren't any I'm aware of planned at the moment, at least not in this area. I may start the process to see if we can find someone who can host TLC. I don't know of any Master Cadet Programs specialists in our locale, but I'll bring it up at our next squadron staff meeting and get the ball rolling. Not sure how far it will get pushed, but it's worth a shot, and I think our incoming commander will be very much in favor of it.

I also agree with the idea of term limits, something I've been very much in favor of in the past with my previous experiences in cadet programs. In the case of someone "thinking" they can or can't do a job, I can't read minds nor know what they're mental preparedness is for something. I think a big part of that comes with having the maturity to recognize that you may need to seek guidance from someone, which comes, in part, from your mentors being approachable. I have talked about this with the new C/CC, so he is aware that I'm there to work with him and assist in any way I can. As for his abilities to perform the job, I don't feel that it's something he can step right into and master right away; but, once again, this is the way it is and we're going to do what we can to help him succeed and improve those abilities.

You cannot take a cadet to TLC. It's a Senior Member-only course. What we can, however, do is sit down together, informally, and go over the material to prepare him further for the responsibilities he will have as C/CC. Unfortunately, the two-deep rule can get in the way of being able to sit down, just the two of us. Although we can mentor under confidentiality, our commander is very supportive of the two-deep policy, and would like to have at least two Seniors and a cadet or two cadets and one Senior at all times. The exception to this, in my case, is that one of our Seniors and I get along very well, and so does his son (one of our cadets); he has explained to me that I have his permission to be around his son in private, and we'll just consider it a personal, family affair (for example, at a civil war reenactment, we walked around together and saw the sites, and we've talked about his flight training in private). I'm not very keen on texting or emailing a cadet privately on a CAP matter, and I refrain from the sender and recipient being the sole individuals in the conversation. And I'm sidetracking here...

As for disagreements, this is most definitely the place for it. I always appreciate feedback, positive or negative. I usually lose my bearing when it comes to personal insults/attacks, and that's generally when I duck out of the rest of the conversation. I think we can all be mature enough to have a discussion, not a "fight."

On a bit of a rant---
I find it very, very, irritating when leadership doesn't get creative in adapting to situations, and has to constantly try and "do things the way they've always been done." Exceptionally frustrating. Which, I feel, is what has brought about this situation; otherwise, I don't feel it would have even been discussed, nor many of my other posts on here lately.

---Edit---
I didn't see Storm Chaser's comment.
I don't disagree at all with you. But it all still falls back to the fact that I don't have the authority for this. I'm very aware of structuring and restructuring a unit to optimize efficiency and performance. Not everyone else is so good with that organizational ability, which a lot of comes from referencing documentation we have to support our efforts (i.e., CAP Manuals and Regs). It adds to the frustration. What I've got right now is what I have. I can't change it at this point. Moving forward and making due.