What would you like to see done for Civil Air Patrol uniforms?

Started by Hawk200, October 13, 2018, 09:48:58 PM

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CAPCom

Allow shoulder boards to be worn on the epaulets of the USAF cardigan with the aviator shirt uniform.  Otherwise, it just looks like a blue sweater over a white shirt and the individual isn't even a CAP member.

Eclipse

Quote from: SCoonts on November 07, 2018, 09:54:51 PM
Allow shoulder boards to be worn on the USAF epaulets with the aviator shirt uniform.  Otherwise, it just looks like a blue sweater over a white shirt and the individual isn't even a CAP member.

The blue pullover isn't authorized with the whites.

The cardigan is, and grade sleeves were worn on that sweater until the last revision of 39-1 in 2014.

"That Others May Zoom"

Fubar

Quote from: Blanding on November 07, 2018, 06:20:29 PMWell, that's a pretty subjective measure: "excessive" - but ignoring that, the shoulder board and service coat is not a required uniform. Therefore, the organization is not taxing the pocketbook of cadets unless they voluntarily opt to spend.

Both are good points, but I'd still prefer to make the cadet program as affordable as possible, even for optional items.

CAPCom

Quote from: Eclipse on November 07, 2018, 10:03:30 PM
Quote from: SCoonts on November 07, 2018, 09:54:51 PM
Allow shoulder boards to be worn on the USAF epaulets with the aviator shirt uniform.  Otherwise, it just looks like a blue sweater over a white shirt and the individual isn't even a CAP member.

The blue pullover isn't authorized with the whites.

The cardigan is, and grade sleeves were worn on that sweater until the last revision of 39-1 in 2014.

I'm not sure what your point is.  You bring up the pullover, but no one mentioned the pullover.  The thread is about what we would like to see done differently with uniforms.  My comment was specifically about that: shoulder boards on the cardigan.  Doesn't matter if they were once allowed, they aren't now and I think they should be (hence, my suggestion).

Hawk200

Quote from: Fubar on November 07, 2018, 05:59:00 PM
Not if the cost to the cadet becomes excessive, which it appears it has. The burden of preserving monuments to our organization's history should not fall on the pocketbook of our cadets.

Kind of the way I'm considering it. Just for giggles, I bought a set of those, "re-clothed" them in gray, with the idea of proposing a Senior Member shoulder board. (I don't care for the sleeves on the service coat epaulets.)

It took a while to do, but in the end I managed to make them look like they were commercially produced. In doing this, I learned why they're so expensive. They're a pain to make. The materials would probably be fairly inexpensive, but the assembly was a little complex. So, the reasons for the cost became evident.

Maybe if the production process was somehow streamlined, the cost could be reduced. But, eliminating them would be a lot less expensive in the long term. Considering that rank could be pinned on, they're non-essential flair. They don't add anything.

West MI-CAP-Ret

Quote from: Eclipse on October 13, 2018, 09:53:46 PM
Actually have a uniform.


I'd like to continue to follow USAF guidelines, including going back to the blue senior rank sleeves, but have much stronger disciplinary guidelines for seniors who abuse the uniform, such as not keeping with weight standards, or requiring USAF enlisted to salute them, etc.  I'd also like to see more use of the dark blue BDU coast guard uniform, including allowing us to wear their blue winter jacket.
MAJ DAVID J. D'ARCY, CAP (Ret) 8 Apr 2018 (1974-1982, 1988-2018)
A former member of:
West Michigan Group MI-703,
Hudsonville Cadet Sqdron MI-135 (name changed to Park Township, Al Johnson Cadet Sqdrn)
Lakeshore Cadet Sqdrn MI-119
Van Dyke Cadet Sqdrn, MI-117
Phoenix Cadet Sqdrn MI-GLR-MI-065 (inactive)
Novi Sixgate Cadet Sqdrn (inactive), MI-068
Inkster Cherry Hill Cadet Sqdrn MI-GLR-MI-283 (inactive)

SemperVigHooah

Allow all cadets of CAP to wear full-sized rank insignia on shirt sleeves as the air force does.
Just make sure they aren't confusable with actual USAF rank insignia and make the insignia subdued.
Have cadets wear green subdued CAP cutouts on their collar.
Allow the usage of green USAF boots with the ABU uniform.

SarDragon

Quote from: Jim Lahaie on December 02, 2018, 09:26:34 PM
Allow all cadets of CAP to wear full-sized rank insignia on shirt sleeves as the air force does. Just make sure they aren't confusable with actual USAF rank insignia and make the insignia subdued.
Have cadets wear green subdued CAP cutouts on their collar.

Allow the usage of green USAF boots with the ABU uniform.

Really? At the rate cadets promote? It was bad enough WIWAC having to change them every four to six months. All that sewing activity takes its toll on the sleeve fabric. It's not too much fun for whomever is doing the sewing, either. At the rate dress uniforms seem to be worn, a typical cadet might wear a particular insignia three times before needing to change. The shirt would spend more time in the sewing basket than being worn.

Pin-on grade insignia was one of the best thing to ever happen to the cadet program.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

hamburgee

Quote from: SarDragon on December 02, 2018, 10:47:54 PM
Pin-on grade insignia was one of the best thing to ever happen to the cadet program.
Agreed... Easy and quick to switch between uniforms, folk like myself who don't have the money nor the time to sew appreciate it much.

PHall

Back in the olde days when we wore the 1505 Tan Uniform we had sew on grade insignia for cadet enlisted. It was a major pain, especially in the fingers...
When we switched over to the current light blue shirts we wear now it was discovered very quickly that the much thinner material didn't take to having insignia sewn on and removed over and over. There were a lot of shirts ruined. The metal pin on insignia was the answer to that problem and it still is.

Eclipse

^The result of that would simply be a lot of cadets wearing the incorrect grade.

"That Others May Zoom"

PHall

Quote from: Eclipse on December 03, 2018, 03:45:29 AM
^The result of that would simply be a lot of cadets wearing the incorrect grade.

Actually, no. Everybody wore their correct grade. It was a big thing then just like it is a big thing now.

SarDragon

Quote from: PHall on December 03, 2018, 04:44:22 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on December 03, 2018, 03:45:29 AM
^The result of that would simply be a lot of cadets wearing the incorrect grade.

Actually, no. Everybody wore their correct grade. It was a big thing then just like it is a big thing now.

Indeed it was. Maybe an even bigger thing, since promotion intervals were less frequent, requirements were different, and processing was more complicated.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

BraveRifles19D

What would be nice would be to allow cadet officers to use pin-on rank on the ABUs and patrol caps.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


MHC5096

Quote from: BraveRifles19D on December 03, 2018, 04:13:27 PM
What would be nice would be to allow cadet officers to use pin-on rank on the ABUs and patrol caps.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

Agreed. The old argument that cloth insignia is used instead of pin-on for safety reasons is a moot point when the majority of the cadet corps wears pin-on insignia.
Mark H. Crary
Lt Col, CAP (1990-Present)
DDC-P, CGAUX (2011-Present)
MSgt, USAF (1995-2011)
QM2, USN (1989-1995)

Eclipse

Quote from: MHC5096 on December 03, 2018, 05:23:03 PM
Quote from: BraveRifles19D on December 03, 2018, 04:13:27 PM
What would be nice would be to allow cadet officers to use pin-on rank on the ABUs and patrol caps.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

Agreed. The old argument that cloth insignia is used instead of pin-on for safety reasons is a moot point when the majority of the cadet corps wears pin-on insignia.

There was literally discussion a few years ago about changing the orientation of the metal insignia on the
collar because the point of the larger insignia (like Chief), could puncture a jugular vein.

"That Others May Zoom"

arajca

A metal pin on cadet officer flight cap device. The old female 'puff' beret did have one that was about the right size.

Sew on version of senior member flight cap device for abu/bdu/cfu patrol cap. Same idea for cadet officers if above is implemented.

BraveRifles19D

Quote from: Eclipse on December 03, 2018, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: MHC5096 on December 03, 2018, 05:23:03 PM
Quote from: BraveRifles19D on December 03, 2018, 04:13:27 PM
What would be nice would be to allow cadet officers to use pin-on rank on the ABUs and patrol caps.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

Agreed. The old argument that cloth insignia is used instead of pin-on for safety reasons is a moot point when the majority of the cadet corps wears pin-on insignia.

There was literally discussion a few years ago about changing the orientation of the metal insignia on the
collar because the point of the larger insignia (like Chief), could puncture a jugular vein.
When I was a cadet, we didn't have senior and chief MSgt's. MSgt was as high as it went and that was 6 stripes down. That pointy insignia is crazy. Also we only used one and had a CAP cutout on the other collar. I'd like to se that again. It would cut the cost of rank insignia in half.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Eclipse on December 03, 2018, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: MHC5096 on December 03, 2018, 05:23:03 PM
Quote from: BraveRifles19D on December 03, 2018, 04:13:27 PM
What would be nice would be to allow cadet officers to use pin-on rank on the ABUs and patrol caps.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

Agreed. The old argument that cloth insignia is used instead of pin-on for safety reasons is a moot point when the majority of the cadet corps wears pin-on insignia.

There was literally discussion a few years ago about changing the orientation of the metal insignia on the
collar because the point of the larger insignia (like Chief), could puncture a jugular vein.

Change the orientation of the insignia to perpendicular to the lower edge instead of parallel (Navy style).

PHall

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on December 04, 2018, 07:24:33 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on December 03, 2018, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: MHC5096 on December 03, 2018, 05:23:03 PM
Quote from: BraveRifles19D on December 03, 2018, 04:13:27 PM
What would be nice would be to allow cadet officers to use pin-on rank on the ABUs and patrol caps.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

Agreed. The old argument that cloth insignia is used instead of pin-on for safety reasons is a moot point when the majority of the cadet corps wears pin-on insignia.

There was literally discussion a few years ago about changing the orientation of the metal insignia on the
collar because the point of the larger insignia (like Chief), could puncture a jugular vein.

Change the orientation of the insignia to perpendicular to the lower edge instead of parallel (Navy style).

Why change it in the first place? Have you ever heard of a cadet actually hurting themselves with their grade insignia? I know I haven't.
If there was any kind of real hazard the Safety folks at National would have gone crazy about it years ago.