Airborne Radiological Monitoring

Started by FlyingPig, December 11, 2022, 07:07:40 PM

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FlyingPig

Is the ARM Mission even a "thing" anymore?  Back in the day I recall people doing the qualification.  But I never heard of any missions.  Is that a capability CAP even has now?
Robert Steht, Capt.
Mission Pilot/CD Pilot
CFI Airplane / CFI Helicopter
Former Sq. Commander

FlyingPig

Mehhh, upon searching,  it appears this is a long since deceased mission.  Unless anyone has anything else to add.
Robert Steht, Capt.
Mission Pilot/CD Pilot
CFI Airplane / CFI Helicopter
Former Sq. Commander

arajca

It is long former mission. Given the equipment used was old Civil Defense equipment from the 50's and 60's, and the conditions that the mission would have been stood up for (atomic warfare), have changed dramatically, CAP stood down the mission many years ago.

FlyingPig

Yeah,
I still see references to it, but when I came back to CAP in the late 90s after getting out of the Marines I think it was already gone.
Thanks
Robert Steht, Capt.
Mission Pilot/CD Pilot
CFI Airplane / CFI Helicopter
Former Sq. Commander

PHall

The last time I recall doing any training for this mission was way back in the mid 80's.

FlyingPig

Quote from: PHall on December 11, 2022, 10:21:28 PMThe last time I recall doing any training for this mission was way back in the mid 80's.

I recall a couple of very old gentleman/pilots with the patch when I was a cadet in the 80s, but really beyond that I never heard anything about it. 35 years ago those guys were probably in their late 60s early 70s
Robert Steht, Capt.
Mission Pilot/CD Pilot
CFI Airplane / CFI Helicopter
Former Sq. Commander

SarDragon

It was still a thing in the early '70s. I took the ground course in early 1971. IIRC, you had to be an Observer to take the airborne course.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

jeders

There was still training for it (at least in Texas) up until the early-mid 00's. While there are still other organizations that train for it and do it, for CAP it has been a non-existent mission, at least as far as I can tell, for a very long time.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

heliodoc

Recently turned in the Aerial Radiological Monitoring kit from AOR to a NG Museuem since it was State property under MilDept of the EMA I retired from.

Most of these missions are done by Dept of Energy NEST program...you know...0aid professionals.

Would have been a good training program for CAP to be in on but as seen with some of the programs...either CAP or others may have come to some/same conclusions...

Can't always wait for some one to arrive at the incident scene when there's a modicum of a hurry in larger more serious incidents

CAP is not a first response agency, although we'd like to be, this is one of those programs that fell to someone else

FlyingPig

I've been in the DoE helicopters, so looking around at that set up got me to wondering how and where CAP might still be doing this mission. Because if CAP was, people needed medals for keeping secrets.  When I flew for the state police in GA, they have a radiological monitoring unit, but its not airborne.  Its done through the Motor Carrier Division.  I didn't figure it was a CAP mission anymore.  When I was in CAWG 2000-2012 I was flying so much with CAP it was like a fulltime job and never heard it mentioned.  Now getting back in, I was wanting to confirm whether it was or wasnt just fascinating history.  Gone the way of dropping bombs on subs. 
Robert Steht, Capt.
Mission Pilot/CD Pilot
CFI Airplane / CFI Helicopter
Former Sq. Commander

RiverAux

Back in the 2000s I seem to recall a half-day or so "training" that was really more of an awareness course given by our local nuclear plant.  I think as far as making our folks aware of various hazards, even if we aren't going to be responding, stuff like that has some usefulness. 

FlyingPig

One of the things pilots find interesting that the airspace around a Nuclear plant isnt at all restricted.  No TFRs nothing.  A local sailplane pilot was arrested for thermaling over a nuclear plant a few years ago, in part because a Deputy Sheriff just assumed it was illegal.  I think he was arrested and cited for Reckless Operations of an Aircraft.  Plant Security had called in.    Smart?  Id say absolutely not the best use of judgement, but being dumb isnt in itself illegal.
Robert Steht, Capt.
Mission Pilot/CD Pilot
CFI Airplane / CFI Helicopter
Former Sq. Commander

etodd

Quote from: FlyingPig on December 14, 2022, 06:02:38 PMOne of the things pilots find interesting that the airspace around a Nuclear plant isnt at all restricted.  No TFRs nothing.
 

Not exactly a rule or reg, but the FAA has issued a NOTAM that covers it. Up to each pilot to decide if they want to test it:

QuoteFDC 6/8818 FDC ...SPECIAL NOTICE...IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND TO THE EXTENT PRACTICABLE, PILOTS AND UAS OPERATORS ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID THE AIRSPACE ABOVE OR IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND OTHER SENSITIVE LOCATIONS SUCH AS POWER PLANTS (NUCLEAR, HYDRO-ELECTRIC, OR COAL), DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXES, MILITARY FACILITIES, CORRECTIONAL AND LAW ENFORCEMENT FACILITIES UNLESS OTHERWISE AUTHORIZED. PILOTS AND UAS OPERATORS SHOULD NOT CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

FlyingPig

#13
Quote from: etodd on December 15, 2022, 12:47:42 AM
Quote from: FlyingPig on December 14, 2022, 06:02:38 PMOne of the things pilots find interesting that the airspace around a Nuclear plant isnt at all restricted.  No TFRs nothing.
 

Not exactly a rule or reg, but the FAA has issued a NOTAM that covers it. Up to each pilot to decide if they want to test it:

QuoteFDC 6/8818 FDC ...SPECIAL NOTICE...IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND TO THE EXTENT PRACTICABLE, PILOTS AND UAS OPERATORS ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID THE AIRSPACE ABOVE OR IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND OTHER SENSITIVE LOCATIONS SUCH AS POWER PLANTS (NUCLEAR, HYDRO-ELECTRIC, OR COAL), DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXES, MILITARY FACILITIES, CORRECTIONAL AND LAW ENFORCEMENT FACILITIES UNLESS OTHERWISE AUTHORIZED. PILOTS AND UAS OPERATORS SHOULD NOT CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES.


Yeah, basically a "hey, it would be really cool if...."  Its not even worth the ink it took to write it.   There's nothing to prevent you from doing it, so the part about "unless otherwise authorized" is comical.  Its authorized by the very nature of it not being unauthorized.  But leave it to the government to give you permission to do stuff youre already allowed to do.
Robert Steht, Capt.
Mission Pilot/CD Pilot
CFI Airplane / CFI Helicopter
Former Sq. Commander

Holding Pattern

I've had discussions of bringing it back and a radresponder alignment but my last wing commander was the Department of No on so many other things I backburnered it.

I may have to bring that up again soon...

PHall

Quote from: Holding Pattern on January 27, 2023, 05:23:29 PMI've had discussions of bringing it back and a radresponder alignment but my last wing commander was the Department of No on so many other things I backburnered it.

I may have to bring that up again soon...


Well before you go to the trouble of bringing it up again you might ask yourself is this a task that CAP can realistically be asked to do and by what agency?

baronet68

Quote from: PHall on January 27, 2023, 06:40:10 PM
Quote from: Holding Pattern on January 27, 2023, 05:23:29 PMI've had discussions of bringing it back and a radresponder alignment but my last wing commander was the Department of No on so many other things I backburnered it.

I may have to bring that up again soon...


Well before you go to the trouble of bringing it up again you might ask yourself is this a task that CAP can realistically be asked to do and by what agency?


Definitely a skillset with limited use or appeal.

As a cadet, having just completed a radiological monitoring course during the waning days of the Cold War (early 1980s), my mother was quick to inform me that my training would only ever be "academic" in nature.  She then assured that there was no way in hell that my parents would ever let me "go out with my CAP buddies to measure radiation".
Michael Moore, Lt Col, CAP
National Recruiting & Retention Manager

Fubar

Just remove the patch from the uniform manual and nobody will be worried about it anymore.

FlyingPig

Quote from: Holding Pattern on January 27, 2023, 05:23:29 PMI've had discussions of bringing it back and a radresponder alignment but my last wing commander was the Department of No on so many other things I backburnered it.

I may have to bring that up again soon...

Id brought up the topic because I was in the process of rejoining after 10 years.  It wasn't even a thing 10 years ago so I was curious when I saw it still mentioned.  I've flown with DoE and been around a couple LE agencies who do it and was curious how CAP was still involved.  On the LE side, even the basic course is a couple of weeks, and that's for ground motor carrier inspections.   Plus I was curious where this plane and equipment is hidden. So as far as brining it up to the Wing Commander, that is a mission that's long since advanced past the capabilities of CAP. This mission was already non-existent in the 90s.  30 years later, we might as well ask when CAP is going to send someone to send someone to space (yeah yeah... save the links to the articles about astronauts who were CAP members)
Robert Steht, Capt.
Mission Pilot/CD Pilot
CFI Airplane / CFI Helicopter
Former Sq. Commander

Bayareaflyer 44

Seems like a good opportunity to hang some meat around a UAS program if we were so inclined.


Earhart #2546
GRW     #3418