ABUs

[Spam]

...nor are our cadets allowed to attend out of GA Wing encampments (unless they're also attending the GA encampment as well...
V/R
Spam

Why not?

I'd prefer not to speculate why, here.

I'd like my cadets to attend a safe, effective encampment and I trust that my Wing's encampment will be good this year.

V/R,
Spam

[Okayish Aviator]

Most of our seniors are more in the "I'll just wear the polo and grey slacks" mode, so being one of 3 seniors that actually wear the uniform means having all the answers even when you don't have all the answers!

Yeah, the polo and grey slacks uniform to me doesn't do it for me.  Not that I particularly like wearing BDUs or ABUs (never actually worn the latter yet...just extrapolating) but for an operational standpoint, they make more sense.

Well, and it'd be one thing if it always looks professional, but I look at it like this:

If I'm in a leadership position, especially with cadets present, I have to set the example both with my behavior, AND with a sharp and well maintained uniform. You set the example. If they see a senior member who's uniform looks like a dumpster fire, they won't be motivated to improve their own uniforms, or their own behavior. That uniform serves as a physical representation of the values we try to bestow on these cadets through their career as a cadet. Have them strive for excellence, but never denegrade or diminish them for not achieving your own view of uniform-wise perfection. I probably wasn't the best cadet, nor was my uniform always perfect, but I'd like to think it was because of excellent leaders I had over me that I was able to straighten myself out eventually.

We've had a number of cadets in my unit who haven't been able to afford uniforms, tapes or etc. One of the other seniors bought tapes for them, and I'm sewing them on all the cadets uniforms today so they don't have to pay someone to put them on. Thankfully when ABU's arrive, we've got bags of them from our local JROTC unit that have been kind enough to donate them. This coupled with the AAFES stuff, we should have all cadets in solid looking uniforms.

[KASSRCrashResearch]

Well, and it'd be one thing if it always looks professional, but I look at it like this:

If I'm in a leadership position, especially with cadets present, I have to set the example both with my behavior, AND with a sharp and well maintained uniform. You set the example. If they see a senior member who's uniform looks like a dumpster fire, they won't be motivated to improve their own uniforms, or their own behavior. That uniform serves as a physical representation of the values we try to bestow on these cadets through their career as a cadet. Have them strive for excellence, but never denigrate or diminish them for not achieving your own view of uniform-wise perfection. I probably wasn't the best cadet, nor was my uniform always perfect, but I'd like to think it was because of excellent leaders I had over me that I was able to straighten myself out eventually.

Agreed about the importance of proper wear, although I will not be focused on cadets to any great degree since I am going into a senior squadron and not planning any significant involvement with the drill, encampment or cadet education activities.  It's important but it's not my area of interest. 

Seeing people who look like a soup sandwich (google "CSM Flournoy" for a GREAT example) makes me a little stabby but then again I guess it's a matter of what the command staff is willing to tolerate.

[Toad1168]

Judging from the transition from Fatigues to BDU, the effective rate of ABU adoption will be about 18 months, as you want.  I predict that In 2 years, BDUs will be rare in most places, and in 3 almost forgotten.   When the phase-in periods ends, it will be with a wimper and everyone will have been in ABU for some time.

I concur, when the transition from the pickle suits was made, it was pretty rapid.  I had a squadron commander that stockpiled the pickle suits to try and force people to wear them.  Cadets went out and got their own BDUs and he couldn't do anything about it.

That being said, people need to realise that different uniforms do nothing to affect operational effectiveness or discipline.  So get over it.  If it bugs you that much, then buy them for your members that don't have them.

[Eclipse]

The CAP corporate working uniform (AKA polo with gray pants) makes sense operationally for those working in the ICP, EOC, and with other agencies.

Not to mention UDF and all flying (The guys from DuPont Composite Squadron don't need to jump in here).

[Toad1168]

That said, what happens when a cadet can't afford to buy three sets of BDUs (or soon ABUs), as required by many wing encampments? CAP only gives one set of service uniform (or the voucher to acquire it). And not every squadron can issue BDUs.

(This probably deserves its own thread on managing an active cadet program with cadets with financial challenges.)

But speaking as a multiple former encampment commander, the answer is "we make do."  No cadet should be denied an encampment experience for financial reasons, especially in the Era of CEAP.  I've waived portions of the encampment fee, borrowed uniforms (and looked the other way when the name tape is different than the cadet's last name), and provided extra laundry time.

That's just what I expect experienced CP officers to do.  Make it work for the benefit of the cadet.

Ned, our GAWG encampments haven't allowed for laundry for the past several years, and require three sets of BDUs and seven black T shirts, which I have to get our new cadets equipped with. I can't change encampment, nor are our cadets allowed to attend out of GA Wing encampments (unless they're also attending the GA encampment as well), so it is what it is.


V/R
Spam

When we ran into the no laundry facility problem, we designated staff to go to the laundromat off post (Fort Leonard Wood) and do laundry for the cadets.  It's all about giving the cadets the best experience possible at encampments.  Not restricting them because they don't have the right stuff.

[vesryn]

Judging from the transition from Fatigues to BDU, the effective rate of ABU adoption will be about 18 months, as you want.  I predict that In 2 years, BDUs will be rare in most places, and in 3 almost forgotten.   When the phase-in periods ends, it will be with a wimper and everyone will have been in ABU for some time.

I concur, when the transition from the pickle suits was made, it was pretty rapid.  I had a squadron commander that stockpiled the pickle suits to try and force people to wear them.  Cadets went out and got their own BDUs and he couldn't do anything about it.

That being said, people need to realise that different uniforms do nothing to affect operational effectiveness or discipline.  So get over it.  If it bugs you that much, then buy them for your members that don't have them.

Our squadron has three huge lockers full of just BDU blouses and pants, and one small cabinet with ABU's. My guess is that we'll be handing out BDU's to new cadets for a while, though I am thinking we'll work a deal out with the local 20th ASOS and try to get some of their surplus. (our local Military Clothing and Sales {read AAFES} doesn't have ABU's, only the new OCP.)

[Майор Хаткевич]

That said, what happens when a cadet can't afford to buy three sets of BDUs (or soon ABUs), as required by many wing encampments? CAP only gives one set of service uniform (or the voucher to acquire it). And not every squadron can issue BDUs.

(This probably deserves its own thread on managing an active cadet program with cadets with financial challenges.)

But speaking as a multiple former encampment commander, the answer is "we make do."  No cadet should be denied an encampment experience for financial reasons, especially in the Era of CEAP.  I've waived portions of the encampment fee, borrowed uniforms (and looked the other way when the name tape is different than the cadet's last name), and provided extra laundry time.

That's just what I expect experienced CP officers to do.  Make it work for the benefit of the cadet.

Ned, our GAWG encampments haven't allowed for laundry for the past several years, and require three sets of BDUs and seven black T shirts, which I have to get our new cadets equipped with. I can't change encampment, nor are our cadets allowed to attend out of GA Wing encampments (unless they're also attending the GA encampment as well), so it is what it is.


V/R
Spam

When we ran into the no laundry facility problem, we designated staff to go to the laundromat off post (Fort Leonard Wood) and do laundry for the cadets.  It's all about giving the cadets the best experience possible at encampments.  Not restricting them because they don't have the right stuff.

Yep. 13 years in CAP (Today actually!), and I've never owned more than 2 sets of utility uniforms at a time. Even then, only because BBDUs fade so unevenly.

[Eclipse]

If CAP saw 1/2 the interest and energy around cadet testing, member retention, professional conduct,
or even proofreading the regulations, as around a shirt that 1/3rd of the membership can't wear and
the majority have no need for, it would be in a lot better position.

Tim Cooke would be proud.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Err, refresh my mind.

Who is / was Tim Cooke?

[Eclipse]

Who is / was Tim Cooke?

Exactly.

[Okayish Aviator]

Agreed about the importance of proper wear, although I will not be focused on cadets to any great degree since I am going into a senior squadron and not planning any significant involvement with the drill, encampment or cadet education activities.  It's important but it's not my area of interest. 

Seeing people who look like a soup sandwich (google "CSM Flournoy" for a GREAT example) makes me a little stabby but then again I guess it's a matter of what the command staff is willing to tolerate.

Just keep in mind that, although you may not be focused or interested in the Cadet Program, the cadets are around and will see you and how you present yourself, even if you keep your distance.

But I agree! Although I'm cracking up at the CSM Flournoy reference. I've used Flournoy a few times when talking about dress and appearance to cadets. lol

[Eclipse]

The gent in question had serious emotional issues and has left this mortal coil.

Much more troubling in a CAP context are those who know the rules and chose to ignore them,
and worse are the leaders who see things and won't intervene.

[Okayish Aviator]

Who is / was Tim Cooke?

Exactly.

You crack me up, but seriously.

[JeffDG]

Honest question...

For folks with young/small cadets, would this be legal?
http://www.amazon.com/Force-Authentic-Military-Battle-Uniform/dp/B00EJQGSX4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1462554670&sr=8-2&keywords=USAF+Kids+ABU+US+Air+Force+Authentic+Military+Battle+Uniform

Very common issue is getting BDUs small enough for the younger cadets.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Agreed about the importance of proper wear, although I will not be focused on cadets to any great degree since I am going into a senior squadron and not planning any significant involvement with the drill, encampment or cadet education activities.  It's important but it's not my area of interest. 

Seeing people who look like a soup sandwich (google "CSM Flournoy" for a GREAT example) makes me a little stabby but then again I guess it's a matter of what the command staff is willing to tolerate.

Just keep in mind that, although you may not be focused or interested in the Cadet Program, the cadets are around and will see you and how you present yourself, even if you keep your distance.

But I agree! Although I'm cracking up at the CSM Flournoy reference. I've used Flournoy a few times when talking about dress and appearance to cadets. lol

This comes up a lot, but I just saw this recently:

[KASSRCrashResearch]

Just keep in mind that, although you may not be focused or interested in the Cadet Program, the cadets are around and will see you and how you present yourself, even if you keep your distance.

Oh, I'm well aware.  I have nothing against them (actually, I dislike people who ignore or treat someone with disrespect or contempt simply because of their age) and don't have a problem being a good role model to whatever degree I can be.  It's just that cadets tend to have their things and I have mine.  If our paths cross, awesome.  They are part of the team just like any senior member who is able to function to a reasonable degree.

The CAP corporate working uniform (AKA polo with gray pants) makes sense operationally for those working in the ICP, EOC, and with other agencies.

It may "make sense" but then again, I'm as much concerned with comfort as I am with that.  I loathe polo shirts- both from a looks and comfort perspective- and if I have to wear one for work, it comes off in favor of something else at the very first opportunity. 

[lordmonar]

Honest question...

For folks with young/small cadets, would this be legal?
http://www.amazon.com/Force-Authentic-Military-Battle-Uniform/dp/B00EJQGSX4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1462554670&sr=8-2&keywords=USAF+Kids+ABU+US+Air+Force+Authentic+Military+Battle+Uniform

Very common issue is getting BDUs small enough for the younger cadets.

If push came to shove.....I would not blink an eye.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Jeff,

If the issue is getting a very small very young cadet into a uniform that looks like but not quite as the real uniform because there are no uniforms in their sizes, I would look the other way.

Remember that young adults usually get into a growth spurt about their 12 or 13 years old, and the issue of no uniforms their size is solved very fast.

Tell any one that asks, to look the other way until that cadet can wear the correct one on his / her size.

[abdsp51]

Let's hope members don't go crease crazy with it.