A possible jacket for the aviator G/W kit?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Story from the field: I was at encampment, wielding a camera for the weekend. Were at Great Lakes, so no photography, we only have our people and we need to turn in the photos for approval. I drove down to graduation parking lot, beat the formation, and wanted to take pictures. I'm about to start doing so, when I hear from behind "HEY! No Photography!". I turn around, see our XO down the road. Make an open hand gesture of " WTF, I'm one of you". He replies "didn't recognize you!". I take my pictures, see a blue uniform coming my way. Lower the camera...its the assitant TAC commander, my buddy, from my squadron....he didn't recognize me with a camera either. Even our own can't tell the G/WS as a uniform from a little distance.   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'd like to see your proposal, can you post it or email it to me?

I would like to see it too.

I am currently updating it (from an old machine).  I hope both you gentlemen can import an Office 97 document.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'd like to see your proposal, can you post it or email it to me?

I would like to see it too.

I am currently updating it (from an old machine).  I hope both you gentlemen can import an Office 97 document.

Make it three?

[Shuman 14]

I'd like to see your proposal, can you post it or email it to me?

I would like to see it too.

I am currently updating it (from an old machine).  I hope both you gentlemen can import an Office 97 document.

I think so... go ahead and send it.

[Mustang]

Business suit for...business and semi formal applications. Dark blue or black with light blue shirt and tie. CAP tie tack. No more blazer combo nametag.

Partial agreement and respectful dissent.  Airline-type dark blue-grey uniform jacket (minus sleeve rings).  Retain black blazer nametag for grade recognition.  CAP ribbons/badges/miniature medals (depending on occasion) allowed.

Merrill? Is that you? 

[Panache]

I'd like to see your proposal, can you post it or email it to me?

I would like to see it too.

I am currently updating it (from an old machine).  I hope both you gentlemen can import an Office 97 document.

I'd like to take a gander at it as well.

[ColonelJack]

CyBorg ..

I would also like to see your proposal.

Thank you...

Jack

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Alright then, here, in all its "glory".....

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[Майор Хаткевич]

Alright then, here, in all its "glory".....

Swap out all metal grade, make headgear same device as blues, and wow, that would look good.

[AlphaSigOU]

Looks good; only thing I would change is the cut of the double-breasted jacket. It would look better if a Navy officer/CPO jacket cut is used (all jacket buttons are in line, not as shown in the illustration). For formal occasions, a civilian black tuxedo (with notch lapels), white formal shirt and allowing CAP-only miniature medals, badges and the 'dinner plate'.

Specify flat front trousers, no cuffed hems.

[Panache]

Pretty good, but if I may make some suggestions:

1) While I like the idea of metal grade on the cap, I doubt that the Powers-That-Be would.  Frankly, I'm surprised we're allowed to have metal grade on the BBDU cap.
2) Make the flight cap and tie the same shade of gray as the shoulder marks and name plate.  This would add to the uniform's "distinctiveness".
3) If possible, use a different shade of blue for the shirt.  Say, French Blue, which would further make the uniform "distinctive".



4) Mandate a standard plain leather belt with silver buckle.
5) Change the Flight Officer shoulder grade marks from the "naval stripes" to an embroidered version of the sew-on collar grade.

Otherwise, pretty sharp.

But to be honest, I would prefer going back to our roots and going with the pink-and-greens made with modern materials, but that's me.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Swap out all metal grade, make headgear same device as blues, and wow, that would look good.

Thank you.  I do not understand the aversion to metal grade, though...on a uniform like this there is no way we could be mistaken for the USAF.

1) While I like the idea of metal grade on the cap, I doubt that the Powers-That-Be would.  Frankly, I'm surprised we're allowed to have metal grade on the BBDU cap.

Which Powers-That-Be?  The AF, or the P-T-B in CAP who view that as almost a third rail?

And, yes, I have never figured out why we are permitted to have it on just one item of clothing...

2) Make the flight cap and tie the same shade of gray as the shoulder marks and name plate.  This would add to the uniform's "distinctiveness".

Flight cap yes, but a grey tie?  No, thank you.  Too much grey.

3) If possible, use a different shade of blue for the shirt.  Say, French Blue, which would further make the uniform "distinctive".

That is a good idea, though the Van Heusen blue shirts really are a different shade (darker) and fabric from the USAF.

I would use the Bleu de Francais for the piping on the flight cap.

4) Mandate a standard plain leather belt with silver buckle.

(petulant tone) I still like the idea of having a CAP crest on the buckle.

5) Change the Flight Officer shoulder grade marks from the "naval stripes" to an embroidered version of the sew-on collar grade.

Even with bifocals, I cannot often make out the embroidered teeny-tiny white stripes on that insignia denoting an FO/TFO/SFO.  The AF does not use warrant officer grades, which is why I suggested those.  At worst, we would be confused with Customs & Border Patrol "journeyman" insignia.



I can say from experience that CBP shoulder slides are indistinguishable from the USAF.  I would not be surprised if CBP uses AF shoulder slides.  I have seen them many, many times when coming back from Canada and, if not the same, they're pretty darn close.

But to be honest, I would prefer going back to our roots and going with the pink-and-greens made with modern materials, but that's me.

I like those too, but I am trying to use extant materials that can be gotten off-the-rack.

Looks good; only thing I would change is the cut of the double-breasted jacket. It would look better if a Navy officer/CPO jacket cut is used (all jacket buttons are in line, not as shown in the illustration). For formal occasions, a civilian black tuxedo (with notch lapels), white formal shirt and allowing CAP-only miniature medals, badges and the 'dinner plate'.

Specify flat front trousers, no cuffed hems.

Good points, but I tried to avoid the CPO-cut on purpose since the CSU had that.

Civilian tux?  Nein, danke.  Again I am trying to K.I.S.S. as much as I can.  Anyway, when I think of tuxedos I think of Chuck Barriss on "The Gong Show."

[THRAWN]

^^^ I agree as outlined above.

Just a couple small points that are like a fork on teeth:
1. CBP is Customs and Border Protection. Border Patrol is a different animal under the CBP umbrella.
2. Drop the term "rank slides". They're epaulette sleeves or shoulder marks. Ranks slides sounds like a line dance at a wedding.

[arajca]

The only problem with the Van Hausen shirts is they are not available for those of use who are tall (5'9" and up) and rotund. The same problem exists with the white aviator shirts, which contributes to variety of styles out there.

[Eclipse]

5'-9" is tall these days?

[THRAWN]

5'-9" is tall these days?

I guess I'm tall. Who would have thought?

[arajca]

5'-9" is tall these days?

According to Van Haussen. If I can get the right size neck, the body length is for someone who is 5'6", not 6'. They quit making talls with a neck greater than 18.5.

[Panache]

The only problem with the Van Hausen shirts is they are not available for those of use who are tall (5'9" and up) and rotund. The same problem exists with the white aviator shirts, which contributes to variety of styles out there.

I have a 19.5 neck and I'm about 6'1" and I wear a standard-length white Van Hausen Aviator quite comfortably.

But apparently they do make the blue shirts in long lengths:  Tall Blue Pilot Shirts - Men's Van Heusen The Aviator TALL Short Sleeve Pilot Uniform Shirts

[Shuman 14]

Alright then, here, in all its "glory".....

Very reasonable suggestions and well thought out.

[Shuman 14]

... But to be honest, I would prefer going back to our roots and going with the pink-and-greens made with modern materials, but that's me.

In the vein of my suggestion of a khaki/silver-tan corporate uniform I tend to agree with you.

I found this thread http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=18680.0 very interesting in that regard.

Looking back may be the way forward.