Flight Suit Question and CAP Talk Question

Started by CAPed Crusader, June 10, 2018, 05:58:53 PM

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CAPed Crusader

Hello,
For Cadets that have their wings, are those Cadets allowed to wear a flight suit? If so, what Flight Suit?

Also, how do you upload your Cadet achievements on CAP Talk Profile and posts?

V/R
Cadet Airman
Francis DeRosa

Eclipse

Quote from: francisderosa16 on June 10, 2018, 05:58:53 PM
Hello,
For Cadets that have their wings, are those Cadets allowed to wear a flight suit? If so, what Flight Suit?

Yes - green one.  No grade on shoulders, grade on nametag is "CADET".

See CAPM 39-1, page 95

"That Others May Zoom"

CAPed Crusader


abdsp51

Grooming standards and H/W apply.  Also it is not worn in lieu of the UOD,  ie you dont get to wear just cuz.  You need to be on flt ops. 

Hawk200

Quote from: Eclipse on June 10, 2018, 06:05:43 PM
Yes - green one.  No grade on shoulders, grade on nametag is "CADET".

Why does it have to be the green one? The manual doesn't seem to require one or the other specifically for cadets.

Eclipse

Quote from: Hawk200 on July 04, 2018, 02:53:50 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 10, 2018, 06:05:43 PM
Yes - green one.  No grade on shoulders, grade on nametag is "CADET".

Why does it have to be the green one? The manual doesn't seem to require one or the other specifically for cadets.

If the cadet is over 18, and out of H/W, then they would have to wear one of the blue ones.  Under 18, cadets are not
authorized to wear corporate variants.

"That Others May Zoom"

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on July 04, 2018, 02:59:28 PM
Under 18, cadets are not authorized to wear corporate variants.

While the reg does say that, there are instances where cadets have been granted (by the duly designated authorities) the ability to wear the CAP corporate uniforms for certain religious accommodations, either in lieu of the AF granting an accommodation to the wear of the USAF-style, or while the request to AF was pending so that the cadet could participate in all aspects of the cadet program without penalty.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
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Eclipse

Quote from: NIN on July 04, 2018, 08:07:35 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 04, 2018, 02:59:28 PM
Under 18, cadets are not authorized to wear corporate variants.

While the reg does say that, there are instances where cadets have been granted (by the duly designated authorities) the ability to wear the CAP corporate uniforms for certain religious accommodations, either in lieu of the AF granting an accommodation to the wear of the USAF-style, or while the request to AF was pending so that the cadet could participate in all aspects of the cadet program without penalty.

Yeah, I knew that, but I wanted to see who had their Red White & Blue pedantic hat on today.

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"That Others May Zoom"

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Eclipse on July 04, 2018, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on July 04, 2018, 02:53:50 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 10, 2018, 06:05:43 PM
Yes - green one.  No grade on shoulders, grade on nametag is "CADET".

Why does it have to be the green one? The manual doesn't seem to require one or the other specifically for cadets.

If the cadet is over 18, and out of H/W, then they would have to wear one of the blue ones.  Under 18, cadets are not
authorized to wear corporate variants.

To clarify:
Cadets over 18 are only allowed to wear the corporate if they are out of weight standards. Otherwise, they must wear the Air Force-style regardless of whether or not they want to. Grooming standards must be adhered to.

Cadets under 18 must wear the Air Force-style uniform regardless of weight. Grooming standards must still be adhered to.


Air Force-style uniforms for flight operations would be:
- ABU
- BDU
- FDU (A.K.A. "Flight Suit")

Corporate-style uniforms for flight operations, eligible for cadet wear (over 18 only), would be:
- Blue BDU (field uniform)
- Blue FDU

*Cadets cannot wear the Corporate Working Uniform (polo combination).

UWONGO2

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on July 05, 2018, 01:24:10 PMCadets over 18 are only allowed to wear the corporate if they are out of weight standards. Otherwise, they must wear the Air Force-style regardless of whether or not they want to. Grooming standards must be adhered to.

Anybody know why this changed? The previous CAPM 39-1 didn't prohibit cadets from wearing the corporate field uniform (BBDU) and our wing ground team standardized on that as a uniform. Although we don't have that many cadets on the team (I think less than 5 right now), they all bought the BBDU (although they didn't have to, I suspect they didn't want to be the only people in camo). The cadets wore their USAF-style uniforms for regular meetings and other non-ES activities.

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: UWONGO2 on July 09, 2018, 10:35:08 PM
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on July 05, 2018, 01:24:10 PMCadets over 18 are only allowed to wear the corporate if they are out of weight standards. Otherwise, they must wear the Air Force-style regardless of whether or not they want to. Grooming standards must be adhered to.

Anybody know why this changed? The previous CAPM 39-1 didn't prohibit cadets from wearing the corporate field uniform (BBDU) and our wing ground team standardized on that as a uniform. Although we don't have that many cadets on the team (I think less than 5 right now), they all bought the BBDU (although they didn't have to, I suspect they didn't want to be the only people in camo). The cadets wore their USAF-style uniforms for regular meetings and other non-ES activities.

The cadets should not have purchased the BBDU if they're under 18. That's a failure on the leadership to suggest that. It doesn't matter if they "didn't have to," they shouldn't have, as it's a waste of finances for them to buy something they aren't authorized to wear that they may have been suggested to. The correct response by the unit leadership would have been: "Cadets, in accordance with CAPM 39-1, you only wear the corporate uniform if you are over 18 and do not meet H&W standards to wear the Air Force-style uniform (or have a religious accommodations waiver)."

The current CAPM 39-1 has been out since June 2014. That's 4 years the majority of cadets in CAP to have only been familiar with this regulation, not its predecessor.

We have a hard enough time getting cadets to wear their mandatory uniform correctly. We don't need another uniform thrown into the mix with its own set of standards.

Eclipse

Quote from: UWONGO2 on July 09, 2018, 10:35:08 PMour wing ground team standardized on that as a uniform

Your wing has(d) a Ground Team?

"That Others May Zoom"

UWONGO2

Quote from: Eclipse on July 10, 2018, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: UWONGO2 on July 09, 2018, 10:35:08 PMour wing ground team standardized on that as a uniform

Your wing has(d) a Ground Team?

Yes, we have a wing ground team. It's a fairly busy team with ELT and missing person missions, so while anyone can earn ground team qualifications, only those that attend the monthly training meetings, the monthly OPEX, and complete some state required training are added to the alert roster. The K9 teams also have additional training they have to do to remain on the alert roster.

This keeps most of the cadets off the team, only a few older and mature cadets have been on the alert roster and are willing to commit to the training requirements. I believe those have all cycled out of the program, so the elimination of the BBDU as a uniform item for them is no longer an issue, but it remains a problem for any cadet that is currently working towards being on the alert roster. It's unfortunate that they won't have the option of wearing the same uniform as the rest of the team. Perhaps like o-flights, we can get a waiver.

Eclipse

For good or bad, you must have a either very small wing, or serendipitously have GT members in the same general
area, as few wings have the ability to have a "Wing Team", per se, that can reasonably deploy instead of or ahead of more local assets.

In my wing, most missions would be over before the "wing team" could even get there.

It also sounds like an excellent way to alienate otherwise qualified members and encourage they
don't bother spending the time and money to maintain quals.

Quote from: UWONGO2 on July 12, 2018, 09:21:47 PMThe K9 teams also have additional training they have to do to remain on the alert roster.

The what now?

"That Others May Zoom"

CAP9907

Quote from: UWONGO2 on July 12, 2018, 09:21:47 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 10, 2018, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: UWONGO2 on July 09, 2018, 10:35:08 PMour wing ground team standardized on that as a uniform

Your wing has(d) a Ground Team?

Yes, we have a wing ground team. It's a fairly busy team with ELT and missing person missions, so while anyone can earn ground team qualifications, only those that attend the monthly training meetings, the monthly OPEX, and complete some state required training are added to the alert roster. The K9 teams also have additional training they have to do to remain on the alert roster.


Are these 'requirements' to be on the alert roster Wing sanctioned and is there anything published about them? This seems wayyy too much to expect folks to do, esp over and above the CAP requirements of the OpsQual..

Same question about the dog teams and: how do you even certify them? To what standard? I assume that you've secured permission in writing as outlined in CAPR 60-3..
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TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Eclipse on July 12, 2018, 09:41:33 PM
For good or bad, you must have a either very small wing, or serendipitously have GT members in the same general
area, as few wings have the ability to have a "Wing Team", per se, that can reasonably deploy instead of or ahead of more local assets.

In my wing, most missions would be over before the "wing team" could even get there.

It also sounds like an excellent way to alienate otherwise qualified members and encourage they
don't bother spending the time and money to maintain quals.

Quote from: UWONGO2 on July 12, 2018, 09:21:47 PMThe K9 teams also have additional training they have to do to remain on the alert roster.

The what now?

Our Wing has SAR dogs. Don't quote me, but I think it was coordinated through GL Region.

QuoteThis keeps most of the cadets off the team, only a few older and mature cadets have been on the alert roster and are willing to commit to the training requirements.

That's pretty much most cadet-related things.


UWONGO2

Quote from: CAP9907 on July 12, 2018, 10:32:37 PMAre these 'requirements' to be on the alert roster Wing sanctioned and is there anything published about them? This seems wayyy too much to expect folks to do, esp over and above the CAP requirements of the OpsQual..

Same question about the dog teams and: how do you even certify them? To what standard? I assume that you've secured permission in writing as outlined in CAPR 60-3..

I'm not on the ground team, I haven't secured anything. I trust those in command have done everything they need to do.

UWONGO2

Quote from: Eclipse on July 12, 2018, 09:41:33 PM
For good or bad, you must have a either very small wing, or serendipitously have GT members in the same general
area, as few wings have the ability to have a "Wing Team", per se, that can reasonably deploy instead of or ahead of more local assets.

In my wing, most missions would be over before the "wing team" could even get there.

It also sounds like an excellent way to alienate otherwise qualified members and encourage they
don't bother spending the time and money to maintain quals.

I'm not on the ground team, so please forgive me if I don't have all the operational details. The team is managed as a single team, but it does occasionally break into regional elements for training or deployment. The concept has been in operation for the past 6-7 years or so and has worked rather well. They are a first-call resource for a couple of different agencies and of course are kept busy with false ELT beacons.

MSG Mac

The AF abuses this terribly, but flight suits should only be worn when participating in flying, and going to or returning from flying.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

GaryVC

That used to be true when I was on active duty (especially in SAC), but apparently is no longer the case. I gather that people on flying status can wear the flight suit almost anytime a uniform is required. (Promotion ceremonies seem to be an exception).