What would you like to see done for Civil Air Patrol uniforms?

Started by Hawk200, October 13, 2018, 09:48:58 PM

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supertigerCH

Quote from: Eclipse on October 25, 2018, 11:58:00 PM
It's not locked.

After a certain period of time you can't modify a post.


well darn.  thanks for clearing that up.

ya... once I hit "post" on that message, and it posted... i thought, well it doesn't seem locked.  i never realized there was a time limit on edits before.  guess i don't edit enough.   :)

oh well.  thanks.

ZigZag911


CAPed Crusader

What would be nice for CAP uniforms are green tapers with white letters, instead of blue. And having all patches be in 2 colors, [like how the USAF did with the ABU's insignia]. Also any color boot but black. Many have said that Senior Members should have Polos, but I think uniforms are nicer.

etodd

Quote from: francisderosa16 on November 03, 2018, 11:04:00 PM

Many have said that Senior Members should have Polos, but I think uniforms are nicer.

The polo is a uniform.  ;D

I spent most of today at the airport giving O-Rides. I don't care about "looking nice". I like to be comfortable, and the polo looks just fine.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

supertigerCH

Quote from: francisderosa16 on November 03, 2018, 11:04:00 PM
What would be nice for CAP uniforms are green tapers with white letters, instead of blue.

green tapers?  ;D

BraveRifles19D

Quote from: arajca on October 14, 2018, 03:03:06 AM
Pulled from Cadet Shoulderboards in the Marketplace...

Quote from: MSG Mac on October 14, 2018, 01:39:16 AM
If you've been to a Uniform store. $32.80 is reasonable. Military Officers can pay up $40-80 for a pair of boards with embroidered grade. Cadet shoulder boards do cost a lot. I wouldn't be disappointed if CAP changed to cadet hard rank worn on the epaulet.

How about a soft board, keeping the same design, but eliminate the pointy tip and button (make the start of the pointed part the top of the slide)? Slide onto (or velcro around) the service coat epaulet and put full size grade insignia through the blue part. Of course, this would require cadet officers to get the officer style service coat...
In the 80's, a pair of shoulder boards cost $7.50. Now they are what, $32? What is that, like a 400% increase? CAP really needs to open up the market on uniform items an release the chokehold Vanguard has on the membership.

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SarDragon

Then you run into an Economy of Scale issue. If two companies are making them, the price will likely rise, because each company will sell fewer items. Generally, the more you make of something, the cheaper they get. Most CAP uniform items are a limited market, and do not lend themselves well to multiple manufacturers.

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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

BraveRifles19D

How much of the profits go to CAP?

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SarDragon

I don't know the exact percentage, but the deal would likely end if two companies were involved.

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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Blanding

Quote from: BraveRifles19D on November 05, 2018, 02:59:19 AM
In the 80's, a pair of shoulder boards cost $7.50. Now they are what, $32? What is that, like a 400% increase? CAP really needs to open up the market on uniform items an release the chokehold Vanguard has on the membership.

I have no idea if these prices are legit or not but,

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70yearsofpricechange.html

1980s price / 2013 price / % increase

New Home
$68,700 / $289,500 / 421%

New Car
$7,200 / $31,352 / 435%

Gallon of Gas
$1.19 / $3.80 / 319%

Loaf of Bread
$0.5 / $1.98 / 396%

1lb of Hamburger Meat
$0.99 / $4.68 / 473%

I guess my point is: the price of shoulder boards also went up... so what?

BraveRifles19D

Quote from: Blanding on November 05, 2018, 10:32:44 PM
Quote from: BraveRifles19D on November 05, 2018, 02:59:19 AM
In the 80's, a pair of shoulder boards cost $7.50. Now they are what, $32? What is that, like a 400% increase? CAP really needs to open up the market on uniform items an release the chokehold Vanguard has on the membership.

I have no idea if these prices are legit or not but,

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70yearsofpricechange.html

1980s price / 2013 price / % increase

New Home
$68,700 / $289,500 / 421%

New Car
$7,200 / $31,352 / 435%

Gallon of Gas
$1.19 / $3.80 / 319%

Loaf of Bread
$0.5 / $1.98 / 396%

1lb of Hamburger Meat
$0.99 / $4.68 / 473%

I guess my point is: the price of shoulder boards also went up... so what?
To $32? For a piece of cardboard wrapped in nylon? And why did CAP change from one insignia and a cutout to two? Because the cost went from $1.40 to over $11 per pair. Doubling their money. The cost of this crap is way to high. At least with Air Force uniforms you can get them really cheap. I got 3 blues shirts for $1 each at the surplus store, new in the bag. Vanguard wants over $40 for one.

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SarDragon

Nylon is a petrochemical. Have you checked the price of oil lately?

That said, I'm guessing that the majority of the cost is not materials, but labor and overhead, just like most businesses.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

etodd

"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Blanding

Quote from: BraveRifles19D on November 05, 2018, 11:02:06 PM
The cost of this crap is way to high. At least with Air Force uniforms you can get them really cheap.

Air Force Personnel:
321,673 Active duty

CAP Members:
61,741

Difference:
571%

Why is it surprising that CAP specific uniform items cost more than those produced for military members, when there are significantly more military members than CAP members?

Paul Creed III

Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
Group 3 Ohio Wing sUAS Program Manager

Hawk200

Quote from: Blanding on November 06, 2018, 01:32:45 PM
Quote from: BraveRifles19D on November 05, 2018, 11:02:06 PM
The cost of this crap is way to high. At least with Air Force uniforms you can get them really cheap.

Air Force Personnel:
321,673 Active duty

CAP Members:
61,741

Difference:
571%

Why is it surprising that CAP specific uniform items cost more than those produced for military members, when there are significantly more military members than CAP members?

The items are lower cost items, the difference is pretty significant. Of course, there are some things that we probably don't really need.

I understand that cadet officer ranks are a very respectable achievement, but do we really need shoulder boards that cost $32?

There's something to be said for just pinning the rank on the service coat epaulets like an officer would do. And save $32 in the process.

Blanding

Quote from: Hawk200 on November 07, 2018, 01:40:45 AM
...Of course, there are some things that we probably don't really need.

I understand that cadet officer ranks are a very respectable achievement, but do we really need shoulder boards that cost $32?

There's something to be said for just pinning the rank on the service coat epaulets like an officer would do. And save $32 in the process.

Apparently, CAP cadet officers have been wearing the same shoulder board on their service coat since 1964[1].
As this is one distinctive element of our uniforms that has stood the test of time, would you concede that it's worth preserving as a monument to our organization's history?

[1] http://www.capchistoryproject.org/grade-insignia.html (near the bottom of the page)

THRAWN

Quote from: Blanding on November 07, 2018, 02:32:54 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on November 07, 2018, 01:40:45 AM
...Of course, there are some things that we probably don't really need.

I understand that cadet officer ranks are a very respectable achievement, but do we really need shoulder boards that cost $32?

There's something to be said for just pinning the rank on the service coat epaulets like an officer would do. And save $32 in the process.

Apparently, CAP cadet officers have been wearing the same shoulder board on their service coat since 1964[1].
As this is one distinctive element of our uniforms that has stood the test of time, would you concede that it's worth preserving as a monument to our organization's history?

[1] http://www.capchistoryproject.org/grade-insignia.html (near the bottom of the page)

And they've been wearing the rank insignia and the cap badges since 1949. They have already stood the test of time.
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

Fubar

Quote from: Blanding on November 07, 2018, 02:32:54 PMAs this is one distinctive element of our uniforms that has stood the test of time, would you concede that it's worth preserving as a monument to our organization's history?

Not if the cost to the cadet becomes excessive, which it appears it has. The burden of preserving monuments to our organization's history should not fall on the pocketbook of our cadets.

Blanding

Quote from: Fubar on November 07, 2018, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: Blanding on November 07, 2018, 02:32:54 PMAs this is one distinctive element of our uniforms that has stood the test of time, would you concede that it's worth preserving as a monument to our organization's history?

Not if the cost to the cadet becomes excessive, which it appears it has. The burden of preserving monuments to our organization's history should not fall on the pocketbook of our cadets.

Well, that's a pretty subjective measure: "excessive" - but ignoring that, the shoulder board and service coat is not a required uniform. Therefore, the organization is not taxing the pocketbook of cadets unless they voluntarily opt to spend.

Additionally, many units maintain funding for uniform supplies and offer assistance to cadets in need.

I guess I just don't see your perspective that shoulder boards are a problem (despite their difficulty to wear). Sure; if they were removed from the uniform it would be easier to wear a service coat, yet the same can be said for any of the other adornments on there.