Suggestion for Service Uniform

Started by PACAPSM, November 12, 2005, 06:20:35 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

PACAPSM

.

SarDragon

 :o  ;D Welcome to the ever-changing CAP uniform.

We used to do it exactly that way. My 1 June 1987 copy of CAPM 39-1 shows that method of wearing rank. IIRC, not too long after that the change was made to blue epaulet sleeves like the USAF wears, with the added CAP embroidery. Then they were changed to maroon, then to the current grey.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

PACAPSM

#2
.

BillB

Changes in the CAP uniform go over like a lead balloon with the National Board. The reason, CAP has to many other problems to try to get USAF approval for uniform changes. When the CAP uniform followed USAF policies on rank wear for example, some Senior Members tried to pass themselves off as USAF officers. That was the primary reason for the added CAP distinctive insignia changes.
If you think that some uniform  changes would be helpful to CAP, send a letter to your Wing Commander through channels, making the case for the change. The National Board can recommend to USAF the changes for their approval. But until CAP follows the regulations as they exist without the shoulder cords on BDUs and all the bling and super hero insignia, there is very little chance of any changes.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

PhoenixRisen

Heh, if it were up to me, we'd have completely new uniforms.
For the BDU's, they'd go with what ever kind(Woodland, Desert) that the AF is using, and the nametapes would be subdues for what ever BDU type we're wearing, and they would say 'USAF Auxiliary' like the 'USCG Auxiliary'. We would have the Aerican flag(reversed) patch on the right shoulder(subdued or not, it doesn't matter). And for grade, for SMs, it would be subdued to match the nametapes, for Cadets, it would be the same.
For the Blues, there's not much I would change, but I would make a service cap badge for enlisted Cadets so that they could wear it also(like the real AF).
And here's something else I would change, it sort of has to do with the Blues, but sorta doesn't. I would eliminate the Cadet Achievement ribbons, and just make one equal to the SM Membership Ribbon.

md132

Quote from: CALcadet144 on November 12, 2005, 08:28:06 PM
Heh, if it were up to me, we'd have completely new uniforms.
For the BDU's, they'd go with what ever kind(Woodland, Desert) that the AF is using, and the nametapes would be subdues for what ever BDU type we're wearing, and they would say 'USAF Auxiliary' like the 'USCG Auxiliary'. We would have the Aerican flag(reversed) patch on the right shoulder(subdued or not, it doesn't matter). And for grade, for SMs, it would be subdued to match the nametapes, for Cadets, it would be the same.
For the Blues, there's not much I would change, but I would make a service cap badge for enlisted Cadets so that they could wear it also(like the real AF).
And here's something else I would change, it sort of has to do with the Blues, but sorta doesn't. I would eliminate the Cadet Achievement ribbons, and just make one equal to the SM Membership Ribbon.

I like the idea for the change of the name on the nametapes but not on making them subdued, and not wearing the American flag.  Reason is that US Army is the only service that wears the flag.  USAF BDU's do not have shoulder sleeve insignia and the flag is NOT authorized on USAF uniforms.  I wouldn't eliminate the Achievement ribbons sine they are earned by the cadet and should be proud of them. 

Camas

The only change I'd like to see is the elimination of wing patches on outer garments.  They're fine on blue shirts and BDU tops but make little sense on raincoats, sweaters and the like.

The thought of allowing cadet airmen to wear the service cap is all well and fine but from what I understand, very few Air Force or CAP personnel wear those to begin with anymore.  Perhaps that policy should remain as it is.  When I was in the AF back in the early 60's we wore those all the time.  But then, we still had 505's and 1505's.    :D

MIKE

#7
Quote from: CALcadet144 on November 12, 2005, 08:28:06 PM
We would have the Aerican flag(reversed) patch on the right shoulder(subdued or not, it doesn't matter).

This was brought up again by Maj Gen Pineda at the NER Conference this past Saturday... He mentioned a proposed right shoulder US flag patch... I assume it will be the Army style reversed version... I'm for it if the USAF is requiring it... Otherwise it is unnecessary and makes us look even more like the Army.

Rumor has it that cloth grade may be soon authorized on the Air Force style BDU cap for senior member officers... Although general Pineda seemed to only mention the blue BDU cap for the CAPDFU which he has already authorized by policy letter.  Another rumor is that metal grade could be returning to the Service Dress Uniform and possibly also uniform outerwear for seniors.

General Pineda said we should be seeing a policy letter on the flag patch and possibly other changes in a few weeks.

Changes I would like to see:

Get rid of shoulder patches... At least get them off of the service uniform shirts and put the sleeve crease back where it belongs.  If we must have them... I want a standardized design... Something like the overseas patch.

Get rid of pocket patches that show qualifications like COMM, Safety and Model Rocketry... Get rid of the ES patch.  Could see putting them back on the uniform in cloth badge form though... The "pocket rocket" would look good in cloth badge form on the left pocket.  Unit patches need to go too IMO.

Bright metal grade should be authorized in garrison for officers on the BDU cap... With the option to require cloth grade or mandated for safety reasons.

Go with dark blue t-shirts like those for the USCG ODU with the CAPDFU and CAPDUU... White shirts was a bad idea... So people decided on there own to wear black etc.

Authorize Gore-tex parkas and other ECWCS components with the BDU to include white on blue grade slides.

Authorize brown fatigue sweater with BDU... Also black watch cap.

Come up with standards for short stacking ribbons for cadets and seniors... Authorize short stacking for cadets.  Cadets have way too much bling as it is and far too many of them can't even wear what they've got right... Plus they think it makes them look cool.

All in all though I wouldn't  go crazy with changes to the BDU though... Don't know how long we will be wearing them once the Air Force finally goes to a new AFUU.  The time to make drastic changes like subdued insignia is when/if we start wearing an all new uniform.  I want a no-sew, no shine and and absolutely no starch utility uniform like the ACU or MCUU.

Mike Johnston

PhoenixRisen

Quote from: MIKE on November 14, 2005, 06:17:14 PM
Quote from: CALcadet144 on November 12, 2005, 08:28:06 PM
We would have the Aerican flag(reversed) patch on the right shoulder(subdued or not, it doesn't matter).

This was brought up again by Maj Gen Pineda at the NER Conference this past Saturday...

Yes, so i've heard, it's all over CAPblog and Civilairman.

Quote from: MIKEBright metal grade should be authorized in garrison for officers on the BDU cap... With the option to require cloth grade or mandated for safety reasons.

Heh heh, I doubt if that was proposed, it would ever go through(especially in areas where theres a large population of Marines, like down here where I am in San Diego). I believe this because Marine officers wear metal rank on the BDUs and BDU caps. I was recently at the MCAS Miramar Airshow, and since we cadets have metal cheverons on our collar in BDUs, one Marine guard who I walked by only noticed the shiny part of my collar, and automatically snapped to a stiff salute as I walked by him. So yeah, I sorta doubt that.

MIKE

Quote from: CALcadet144 on November 15, 2005, 12:33:50 AM
Quote from: MIKEBright metal grade should be authorized in garrison for officers on the BDU cap... With the option to require cloth grade or mandated for safety reasons.

Heh heh, I doubt if that was proposed, it would ever go through(especially in areas where theres a large population of Marines, like down here where I am in San Diego). I believe this because Marine officers wear metal rank on the BDUs and BDU caps. I was recently at the MCAS Miramar Airshow, and since we cadets have metal cheverons on our collar in BDUs, one Marine guard who I walked by only noticed the shiny part of my collar, and automatically snapped to a stiff salute as I walked by him. So yeah, I sorta doubt that.

Not lately they don't... Marines I mean... Though I believe they did wear rank on the utility cover for a time...  Actually I think that Marine officers are the only US military officers not authorized to wear grade on the utility cover or BDU cap.  If you saw someone in a utility cover with bright metal rank on it they probably weren't a Marine... But could have been a naval officer or a coastie.

I think that if cloth grade was authorized on the BDU cap, as it looks like it could be for seniors... Then it stands to reason that bright metal grade could also be authorized for limited use in line with USAF policy.  See below:

Quote from: AFI36-2903 Figure 2.10. Men's and Women's Headgear.2.  Wear regular size cloth or subdued metal grade insignia on the camouflage pattern BDU cap.  MAJCOM commanders may authorize wear of bright non subdued grade insignia by officers while in Garrison.  Note: Chaplains may wear chaplains' insignia centered 1/2 inch above visor of BDU cap.
Mike Johnston

PhoenixRisen

Quote from: MIKE on November 15, 2005, 02:36:14 AM
Quote from: CALcadet144 on November 15, 2005, 12:33:50 AM
Quote from: MIKEBright metal grade should be authorized in garrison for officers on the BDU cap... With the option to require cloth grade or mandated for safety reasons.

Heh heh, I doubt if that was proposed, it would ever go through(especially in areas where theres a large population of Marines, like down here where I am in San Diego). I believe this because Marine officers wear metal rank on the BDUs and BDU caps. I was recently at the MCAS Miramar Airshow, and since we cadets have metal cheverons on our collar in BDUs, one Marine guard who I walked by only noticed the shiny part of my collar, and automatically snapped to a stiff salute as I walked by him. So yeah, I sorta doubt that.

Not lately they don't... Marines I mean... Though I believe they did wear rank on the utility cover for a time...  Actually I think that Marine officers are the only US military officers not authorized to wear grade on the utility cover or BDU cap.  If you saw someone in a utility cover with bright metal rank on it they probably weren't a Marine... But could have been a naval officer or a coastie.

Nope, they(and it was more than one) wern't Coasties or Naval Officers. They had the distinctive digital desert BDUs that said 'U.S. Marines' on 'em.

Also, while on the topic of Marines BDU's, can someone tell me why the upper breast pockets are at a slant, unlike earlier(or current for some branches) BDU's.?

SarDragon

It improves the functionality of the pocket, easier access.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

PhoenixRisen

Ahh I See. Will all branches be doing that sometime in the future, or is that USMC-only?

PACAPSM

#13
.

Chris Jacobs

They went to the new slanted pockets so that you can get into them with you body armor on.  i think that with the new interceptor body armor you could either not get into the old style pockets or with the new armor you finally could but not easily.  the marines already have slanted pockets and the army is going to.  i don't know about the rest of the services, but then again they don't wear a lot of body armor on ships or on secure air bases.
C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron

PACAPSM

#15
.

SarDragon

Again, old history. They were blue in '87, and had changed to grey by '99. Since I was inactive from '89 to '99, I don't know when they actually changed.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

arajca

Quote from: PACAPSM on November 16, 2005, 04:05:31 AM
Here's another question:  Have Senior Members always worn the gray nameplate (AF shirt/Aviator Shirt)?   Does anyone think that it is possible that SMs could wear the blue nameplate (as cadets do now) with the AF uniforms, and those wearing the "grays" would wear the gray nameplate?  Just curious...
It depends on the Air Force. They're the ones who smacked us with the maroon epaulets (after some of our people got to big for their britches), until they relented and allowed us to use grey. They're also the ones who have to approve ANY and ALL changes to the AF service uniforms and bdu's. With the CAP distinctive uniforms, we can pretty much do as we (the corporation) please, since they are not governed by the AF.

A couple changes I would like to see are:
Making the policies for the aviator and AF shirts identical - except for the military badges/ribbons and wing patches (Submitted)
Provide for an official cap (grey flight style) for use with the aviator shirt (submitted). Sorry, folks the baseball cap doesn't cut it.
Give cadets the option, but don't require them, to short stack by not wearing all their achievement or milestone ribbons. At a minimum, they'd be required to wear the highest achievement or milestone ribbon.
Wing patches - change to a uniform shape (AF modified heater shield) or eliminate. Changing to a single "CAP" patch would probably cause great dissent and refusal to follow the regs. (Actually, changing to a single shape is but the first step to eliminating them)
Change to blue epaulets.

I like the idea of wearing grade on the flight cap opposite the CAP device for seniors, however, that may be a bit to Navy/Marine for the AF to approve.

On the bdu/field uniform(aka bbdu) - either do away with the ES patch or require it for all ES qualified personnel. Most of the ES personnel I know don't wear it.
Most of the insignia placement between the bdu and bbdu is already the same - especially now that grade is worn on both collars of the bdu.
Permit the wear of grade on the bdu cap.
Change the t-shirt for the bbdu to dark blue or black (submitted). It's a morale and appearance issue, not a freakin' safety issue.

Chris Jacobs

I would like to see ES personnel be alloyed to wear blaze orange shirts under their uniform.  it would make it so we wouldn't have to haul around those stupid bulky safety vests.  of course they could only wear orange if they were on a mission, and would need to wear black on all other activities.  i was told that this used to be allowed but with the new 39-1 that it is no longer allowed or there was no loop hole to wear them.
C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron

Matt

Big bulky vests mate?  Nah, ya' gotta find the nice mesh ones that fit into a nice ziploc bag to stay out of the way.

Our unit has the old-school vinal-polimer vests that feel and have the mobility of most modern day flak vests too, but ya' gotta find your own, it's much easier and nicer to spend the $5 to buy one and just have it.
<a href=mailto:mkopp@ncr.cap.gov> Matthew Kopp</a>, Maj, CAP
Director of Information Technology
<a href=https://www.ncrcap.us.org> North Central Region</a>