Second Lieutenant bars

[Billy009]

Can someone tell me what direction second Lieutenant bars face on the bdu uniform? Not sure whether it's vertical or horizontal.

[Storm Chaser]

Horizontal. 1/8" blue border. 1" from bar insignia to edge of collar.

On the BDU hat, it goes vertical, 1/2" from visor.

See CAPM 39-1 for more details.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Vertical on the collar, and vertical in the cap.

Horizontal is this way: --------

Vertical is this way: |

See Fig 6-2, p. 100. It is in relation to the uniform. If seen from the front, some may argue it is horizontal, but it is not. It is still vertical.

Flyer

[Storm Chaser]

Vertical on the collar, and vertical in the cap.

Horizontal is this way: --------

Vertical is this way: |

See Fig 6-2, p. 100. It is in relation to the uniform. If seen from the front, some may argue it is horizontal, but it is not. It is still vertical.

Flyer

I'm not sure which image are you looking at, but the one I have in front of me have those bars horizontal, parallel with the bottom edge of the collar...

... Ok, maybe we're seeing the same thing and just describing it different.

[Luis R. Ramos]

That may be it. To me, that has "always" been the same. I am 59, and I have seen that since I was 16 as "vertical." I never try to describe it as "seen from the front." Can cause confusion.

Flyer

[a2capt]

Roman numeral II as read when printed traditionally from left to right.

Not for people like me who can read upside-down, backwards, and in a mirror.

[SarDragon]

Regarding horizontal vs. vertical - if you hold the shirt collar so it is parallel to the ground, the rank/grade insignia can be viewed as vertical.

[Billy009]

Thank you for the information. Very much appreciated.

[Storm Chaser]

Not a lieutenant, but close enough. Bars are aligned/placed in the same way.

[Storm Chaser]

The placement of CAP grade insignias is the same as with the Air Force ABU. The grade insignia on the ABU hat on this picture, however, is a bit high. It should be 1/2" for above the visor on the CAP BDU hat.

[Panache]

Here is a picture of an Air Force First Lieutenant wearing her grade insignia on her ABU's:



For comparison, here is a CAP Second Lieutenant.  Notice the insignia is worn the same way (in line with the edge of the collar)



And, finally, an Army First Lieutenant.  While the uniform is slightly different, notice the orientation of her grade insignia on her cover (hat):

[Devil Doc]

Boy we didnt have Officers that looked like that when I was in  Im talking about the Air Force Lt

[Garibaldi]

While we are on the subject, how do youse guys feel about dem blue grade slides on da field jacket epaulets? I've seen it done, I know it's wrong, and it looks horrible. But I've seen it. I just don't want to say nothin' to no one, not for nothin'.

[PHall]

Boy we didnt have Officers that looked like that when I was in  Im talking about the Air Force Lt

Yes we did, we just don't let you low lifes from the other branches see them.

[JacobAnn]

Boy we didnt have Officers that looked like that when I was in  Im talking about the Air Force Lt

Not too many professional football cheerleaders are also members of the US military.  Probably none besides her.

[Panache]

Eh.  I think the Army 1LT is way cuter.

[Devil Doc]

Nice Catch Panache, I was mesmerized by the "Barbie" Lt.

[GroundHawg]

Boy we didnt have Officers that looked like that when I was in  Im talking about the Air Force Lt

Not too many professional football cheerleaders are also members of the US military.  Probably none besides her.

Mmmm I wouldn't bet on that....
Philadelphia Eagles Cheerleader that commissioned into the US Army as an Intel Officer and served as such with PsyOps and Spec Ops.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Ya see?

All topics degenerate into uniform topics, except when a topic starts on uniforms, it degenerates into something else.

Makes me think there is hope among you...

That not all of you have uniforms as the ultimate goal of your participation in CAP...

Flyer

[Garibaldi]

Ya see?

All topics degenerate into uniform topics, except when a topic starts on uniforms, it degenerates into something else.

Makes me think there is hope among you...

That not all of you have uniforms as the ultimate goal of your participation in CAP...

Flyer

So, when are we getting ABUs?

[THRAWN]

Ya see?

All topics degenerate into uniform topics, except when a topic starts on uniforms, it degenerates into something else.

Makes me think there is hope among you...

That not all of you have uniforms as the ultimate goal of your participation in CAP...

Flyer

So, when are we getting ABUs?

I think we should get tan boots for our BBDUs...

[MSG Mac]

Ya see?

All topics degenerate into uniform topics, except when a topic starts on uniforms, it degenerates into something else.

Makes me think there is hope among you...

That not all of you have uniforms as the ultimate goal of your participation in CAP...

Flyer

So, when are we getting ABUs?

The 12th of Never!

[RogueLeader]

Ya see?

All topics degenerate into uniform topics, except when a topic starts on uniforms, it degenerates into something else.

Makes me think there is hope among you...

That not all of you have uniforms as the ultimate goal of your participation in CAP...

Flyer

So, when are we getting ABUs?

The 12th of Never!

30th of February 25978

[Billy009]

I thought CAP officers do not wear rank insignia on the BDU cap. Am I incorrect?

[Storm Chaser]

I thought CAP officers do not wear rank insignia on the BDU cap. Am I incorrect?

Yes, senior member grade insignias must be worn on BDU caps according to ICL to CAPM 39-1, dated 12 March 2012. The mandatory date was 1 May 2007.

[Garibaldi]

I thought CAP officers do not wear rank insignia on the BDU cap. Am I incorrect?

Metal insigina, no. Embroidered insignia, yes.

[Panache]

I thought CAP officers do not wear rank insignia on the BDU cap. Am I incorrect?

Metal insigina, no. Embroidered insignia, yes.

Unless you are wearing the Blue BDU (BBDU) cap, in which case you can use embroidered or metal grade insignia.

[Devil Doc]

Metal insigina, no. Embroidered insignia, yes.

I wish there was Metal Insignia on all BDU Variations, be alot easier.

[Storm Chaser]

Metal insigina, no. Embroidered insignia, yes.

I wish there was Metal Insignia on all BDU Variations, be alot easier.

Easier? I have to respectfully disagree. Once the embroidered insignia is sewn, there's no need to do anything else to it. It's always there, in the right place (assuming it was sewn correctly). Metal insignias need to be measured and placed on the uniform every time. How's that easier?

[MIKE]

Not to mention the first time you get bonked in the head... Assuming you don't bend the pins back.

[LSThiker]

Easier? I have to respectfully disagree. Once the embroidered insignia is sewn, there's no need to do anything else to it. It's always there, in the right place (assuming it was sewn correctly). Metal insignias need to be measured and placed on the uniform every time. How's that easier?

I think it is personal preference.  I wore metal rank and branch insignia on my BDUs (prior to transitioning to ACUs) and it was not that bad.  In some cases, it was nice as my collar had a good patch of black so my branch insignia and rank would be hidden.    I did transition over to cloth for my field BDUs.  Unfortunately, they were off ever so slightly (1 degree) and it really annoyed me.  I argued with the seamstress (or really seam stress) about correcting it but just was not worth my time.  Personally, I did not find metal insignia any less convenient than cloth.

[huey]

So, when are we getting ABUs?


As soon as the Air Force gets rid of it, I guess!!!!

[huey]

Metal insigina, no. Embroidered insignia, yes.


For CAP, I think the only case to wear a metal insignia is for flying suit, which is plastic encased.

[AirAux]

And is not metal, but in reality the rank is also plastic.

[Panache]

Metal insigina, no. Embroidered insignia, yes.


For CAP, I think the only case to wear a metal insignia is for flying suit, which is plastic encased.

...and the Blue BDU cap.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Does anyone have a coherent explanation as to why we are allowed metal grade on just one item of headgear, but not on the BBDU's themselves?

It's not like we could be confused with the Air Force on that, since they don't wear BBDU's.

[Garibaldi]

Does anyone have a coherent explanation as to why we are allowed metal grade on just one item of headgear, but not on the BBDU's themselves?

It's not like we could be confused with the Air Force on that, since they don't wear BBDU's.

I think you'd have a better chance of getting "when are we getting ABUs?" answered before you get the answer to that.

[SarDragon]

Does anyone have a coherent explanation as to why we are allowed metal grade on just one item of headgear, but not on the BBDU's themselves?

It's not like we could be confused with the Air Force on that, since they don't wear BBDU's.

Metal grade on BBDUs can turn into a comfort/safety issue when in the field. It can catch on pack straps, or get caught underneath and cause bruises and/or wounds.

[THRAWN]

Does anyone have a coherent explanation as to why we are allowed metal grade on just one item of headgear, but not on the BBDU's themselves?

It's not like we could be confused with the Air Force on that, since they don't wear BBDU's.

Sure, this is easy...blah blah blah corporate uniform, something something Air Force style, yadda yadda WE SANK A SUBMARINE IN WORLD WAR 2!.....

Oh, wait, I mean nope...no coherent explanation available.

[Garibaldi]

Does anyone have a coherent explanation as to why we are allowed metal grade on just one item of headgear, but not on the BBDU's themselves?

It's not like we could be confused with the Air Force on that, since they don't wear BBDU's.

Metal grade on BBDUs can turn into a comfort/safety issue when in the field. It can catch on pack straps, or get caught underneath and cause bruises and/or wounds.

Or you can wind up with 2 holes in your forehead when you smack a tree branch...

[Eclipse]

Metal grade on BBDUs can turn into a comfort/safety issue when in the field. It can catch on pack straps, or get caught underneath and cause bruises and/or wounds.

Seriously - because of the placement, the frogs are right at your forehead.  I bent mine over and back into the cloth,
but I rarely wear the Castro hat, anyway.

[Майор Хаткевич]

When I reengaged as a SM, I had about 1 year left on the clock for captain, so I figured I'd wear the metal grade....did that for a few meetings, said screw it, and put cloth on.

[Luis R. Ramos]

If you wear metal on the cap, and wear the cap the way it is supposed to, the metal may scratch your forehead even if you do not smack into a branch... It has happened to me...

In other words, safety issue!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

All good and valid reasons as to why one should not wear the metal grade on the BBDU hat.

But does anyone know why the powers-that-be let us wear it there and nowhere else?

Metal grade on BBDUs can turn into a comfort/safety issue when in the field. It can catch on pack straps, or get caught underneath and cause bruises and/or wounds.

Point taken (ouch!), but subdued metal grade (or, in the case of the Marines, non-subdued), with all its attendant hazards, has been worn on field uniforms for many years.