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How to refer to CAP NCO

Started by cadetesman, May 23, 2012, 10:19:14 PM

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cadetesman

Just wondering, how exactly do I refer to a CAP Senior Member NCO?

I believe it is as Sgt, but I'm not entirely sure.

This is the first time I have ever had to contact a CAP NCO, as there are so few of them.

Thank you


manfredvonrichthofen

For the first few times you speak to him, refer to him as his correct grade, Staff Sergeant, tech Sergeant... So on, I he tells you to just drop it to Sergeant, then go for it, but of he doesn't correct you, then keep going with the full correct grade.

Eclipse

What's his grade?  Chiefs, etc., tend to like that included in salutations, the same way that offices like "sir".

"That Others May Zoom"

MSgt Van

Sargeant Lastname is appropriate except for a Chief. I don't personally care for "sarge". If they demand the full title then so be it, but they shouldn't be a jerk about it.

Phil Hirons, Jr.

CAPP 151 covers the basics.

"Air Force and senior member non-commissioned officers and airmen are addressed by grade and last name (ie: Sergeant Levitow)."

While this does not cover the Technical Sergeant vs Sergeant the chart that follows does. There is an earlier reference that states it is always correct for a senior member to address a cadet as Cadet








ABBREV.GRADETERMS OF ADDRESS
C/SSgtCadet Staff SergeantSergeant Cadet
C/TSgtCadet Technical SergeantSergeant Cadet
C/MSgtCadet Master SergeantSergeant Cadet
C/SMSgtCadet Senior Master SergeantSergeant Cadet
C/CMSgtCadet Chief Master SergeantChief Cadet

The table continues to show we address First and Second Lieutenants as Lieutenant, etc.

With this information I think we can conclude the proper way to address a CAP NCO is Sergeant or Chief Last Name.

 

lordmonar

Sergeant, Chief, sir or ma'am are all acceptable terms of address.

If in doubt.....ask.

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Extremepredjudice

Quote from: lordmonar on May 24, 2012, 12:58:55 AM
Sergeant, Chief, sir or ma'am are all acceptable terms of address.

If in doubt.....ask.
But.... They aren't sirs or ma'ams? Why do SM NCOs get Sir or Ma'am as a term of address, but all other NCOs don't?
I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

PHall

Quote from: Extremepredjudice on May 24, 2012, 02:39:41 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 24, 2012, 12:58:55 AM
Sergeant, Chief, sir or ma'am are all acceptable terms of address.

If in doubt.....ask.
But.... They aren't sirs or ma'ams? Why do SM NCOs get Sir or Ma'am as a term of address, but all other NCOs don't?

You do know that the guy who gave you that answer is a recently retired Air Force Master Sergeant, right?
So he might know what he's talking about here.






Or not... >:D

Dad2-4

WWhen I went through USAF Basic Training in the mid-80s we were taught that NCO's can be addressed as sir and m'am.
When I was in the Army in the 1990 I was constantly being told not to do that.
I don't know what the USAF current policy is on it though. Even as a SM officer, I still use sir and m'am when speaking with SM NCOs and all AD personnel just out of respect for the person, and no one has ever complained except a couple of overly gung-ho Army Reservists.

abdsp51

AF policy is a NCO may be addressed as Sergeant, staff, tech sergeant etc or sir or ma'am. 

BuckeyeDEJ

"Sergeant cadet" is how we'd verbally refer to a cadet technical sergeant? What clueless civilian at HQ CAP wrote that?

To other cadets, he'd be "sergeant" or "cadet" and to senior members, he's "cadet."

As for seniors who wear stripes, they're sergeants or chiefs. Cadets would address them as "sergeant" or "chief," and would not need to salute them. And "sirs" and "ma'ams" are officers.

Go look at the book when all else fails. 'Nuff said.


CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group, wing, region PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member.
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now a communications manager for an international multisport venue.

lordmonar

#11
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on May 24, 2012, 02:39:41 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on May 24, 2012, 12:58:55 AM
Sergeant, Chief, sir or ma'am are all acceptable terms of address.

If in doubt.....ask.
But.... They aren't sirs or ma'ams? Why do SM NCOs get Sir or Ma'am as a term of address, but all other NCOs don't?
Dude....look at my signature.....I retired as a MSgt in 08......I called NCO's sir or ma'am from day one at BMTS.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

SarDragon

Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on May 24, 2012, 06:03:19 AM
"Sergeant cadet" is how we'd verbally refer to a cadet technical sergeant? What clueless civilian at HQ CAP wrote that?

To other cadets, he'd be "sergeant" or "cadet" and to senior members, he's "cadet."

As for seniors who wear stripes, they're sergeants or chiefs. Cadets would address them as "sergeant" or "chief," and would not need to salute them. And "sirs" and "ma'ams" are officers.

Go look at the book when all else fails. 'Nuff said.

The chart looks better in the CAPP 151. It has two columns under TERMS OF ADDRESS, one for SMs, and one for Cadets. It doesn't really say "Sergeant cadet" anywhere.

Basic rules:
Cadets address cadet officers and senior members by grade or as "Sir" or "Ma'am."

Senior members may address cadets by grade or simply by the noble title, "Cadet."
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

bflynn

Quote from: Dad2-4 on May 24, 2012, 04:47:29 AM
WWhen I went through USAF Basic Training in the mid-80s we were taught that NCO's can be addressed as sir and m'am.
When I was in the Army in the 1990 I was constantly being told not to do that.
I don't know what the USAF current policy is on it though. Even as a SM officer, I still use sir and m'am when speaking with SM NCOs and all AD personnel just out of respect for the person, and no one has ever complained except a couple of overly gung-ho Army Reservists.

Interesting - apparently the Air Force is the only branch that uses sir/ma'am as a form of address for NCOs.  In all the other branches, you'll get a butt chewing for doing that, probably along with a question about your parent's marital status.  Or at the very least, a "don't call me sir, I work for a living"...

lordmonar

Quote from: bflynn on May 24, 2012, 12:31:04 PM
Quote from: Dad2-4 on May 24, 2012, 04:47:29 AM
WWhen I went through USAF Basic Training in the mid-80s we were taught that NCO's can be addressed as sir and m'am.
When I was in the Army in the 1990 I was constantly being told not to do that.
I don't know what the USAF current policy is on it though. Even as a SM officer, I still use sir and m'am when speaking with SM NCOs and all AD personnel just out of respect for the person, and no one has ever complained except a couple of overly gung-ho Army Reservists.

Interesting - apparently the Air Force is the only branch that uses sir/ma'am as a form of address for NCOs.  In all the other branches, you'll get a butt chewing for doing that, probably along with a question about your parent's marital status.  Or at the very least, a "don't call me sir, I work for a living"...
I hate that joke.

1) It is disrepectful towards officers.
2) It is disrepectful toward the person who offered a term of repect....and is rejected so rudely.....if you want to be called something else....just say...."Call me Sergeant Major" and press on.  No one should get a butt chewing for being respectful....even if they did it "wrong".

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Eclipse

Quote from: bflynn on May 24, 2012, 12:31:04 PMInteresting - apparently the Air Force is the only branch that uses sir/ma'am as a form of address for NCOs.  In all the other branches, you'll get a butt chewing for doing that, probably along with a question about your parent's marital status.  Or at the very least, a "don't call me sir, I work for a living"...

Wives tales and too many movies.

Never happens.

"That Others May Zoom"

Major Carrales

Quote from: lordmonar on May 24, 2012, 01:04:29 PM
Quote from: bflynn on May 24, 2012, 12:31:04 PM
Quote from: Dad2-4 on May 24, 2012, 04:47:29 AM
WWhen I went through USAF Basic Training in the mid-80s we were taught that NCO's can be addressed as sir and m'am.
When I was in the Army in the 1990 I was constantly being told not to do that.
I don't know what the USAF current policy is on it though. Even as a SM officer, I still use sir and m'am when speaking with SM NCOs and all AD personnel just out of respect for the person, and no one has ever complained except a couple of overly gung-ho Army Reservists.

Interesting - apparently the Air Force is the only branch that uses sir/ma'am as a form of address for NCOs.  In all the other branches, you'll get a butt chewing for doing that, probably along with a question about your parent's marital status.  Or at the very least, a "don't call me sir, I work for a living"...
I hate that joke.

1) It is disrepectful towards officers.
2) It is disrepectful toward the person who offered a term of repect....and is rejected so rudely.....if you want to be called something else....just say...."Call me Sergeant Major" and press on.  No one should get a butt chewing for being respectful....even if they did it "wrong".

I have always believe what you just said here.  While I know there exists a clear distinction between Officers, NCOs and the Enlisted Airman that must always be maintained...there should be no animosity between these groups.  I have seen and read both sides of this...  NCOs that treat and precieve officers as if they were "Col Hall" from the Phil Silver's show, basically baffoons.  I've witnessed the opposite also, Officers that treat enlisted like they were unworthy trogs.

This cannot possibly be healthy, despite it's obvious satire/comical origin, in CAP. 

If we are talking about Cadet NCOs taking this position with Cadet Officers, that is just ridiculous and childish "posing" since all CAP Cadet Officers were C/CMSgts prior to becoming cadet officers.  Thus, in terms of the cadet program a C/2d Lt has "been there and done that" and taking that position is just something "someone saw on television."

I have also seen the cadet/senior member dynamic.  Most times, Cadet Programs people are highly respected by the cadets and those "polo shirt" wearing ones are subject to the "rift."  Why?  Because they don't participate in customs and courtesies, return salutes, wear the same uniform and a plethora of other issues.  It usually begins with a visiting O-pilot who leaves cadets "haning" on a salute or says "just call me, Joe."

The cadets who are emotionally invested in the structure find this ridiculous and thus is invented the terms "Donut Eatin' Senior Member."

Why?  I can understand this is so because...from the cadet's point of view there is a clear difference between Capt. C. P. Capman, who displays military trappings and "Joe" the Lt Col who gives O-Rides.

The NCO program in CAP is not really such, it is an hommage to prior service.  If we take it as that, as I do, I have no problems with it.  However, there are some that seek it to be more (and have sought such as evident in a prior administration) who, for the same reason, see either great VALUE in it or NO Value in it.  There are even those that would say that the idea of a former NCO not wanting to wear officer's rank is sort of insulting...citing the same "don't call me sir, I work for a living" base argument.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

bflynn

Quote from: lordmonar on May 24, 2012, 01:04:29 PM
I hate that joke.

1) It is disrepectful towards officers.
2) It is disrepectful toward the person who offered a term of repect....and is rejected so rudely.....if you want to be called something else....just say...."Call me Sergeant Major" and press on.  No one should get a butt chewing for being respectful....even if they did it "wrong".

You can hate it, but as a raw recruit right out of boot, I had it said to me by a chief as a spot correction.  And I've used it with other recruits as a spot correction meant and taken completely seriously.  In the Navy at least it is (was) not used as a joke.

The real military is a rougher culture.  It has been toned down some, but when you consider their ultimate mission is to kill other people, roughness, inflexibility and a certain level of contempt for inexperienced people is to be expected. 

arajca

Quote from: Eclipse on May 24, 2012, 01:25:25 PM
Quote from: bflynn on May 24, 2012, 12:31:04 PMInteresting - apparently the Air Force is the only branch that uses sir/ma'am as a form of address for NCOs.  In all the other branches, you'll get a butt chewing for doing that, probably along with a question about your parent's marital status.  Or at the very least, a "don't call me sir, I work for a living"...

Wives tales and too many movies.

Never happens.
Bull pucky. It happens. BTDT.

Eclipse

Quote from: bflynn on May 24, 2012, 02:51:04 PMYou can hate it, but as a raw recruit right out of boot, I had it said to me by a chief as a spot correction.  And I've used it with other recruits as a spot correction meant and taken completely seriously.  In the Navy at least it is (was) not used as a joke.

It's not used any more where the Navy trains its recruits.

"That Others May Zoom"