How to locate membership status?

[mynetdude]

Anytime a member is moved to 000 it's a failure on someone's part, usually CAP's.

This includes high-visibility situations like HWSRN.  Certainly there are people who
are not a good "fit" for CAP, in which case the failure is in letting them join at all,
but in many (most?) cases, lack of supervision, leadership, proper expectations, or related
problems are what allows people to get themselves into situations where they go from
well-intentioned, motivated members to "not".

When someone is pushed into 000 as a "going away present", that's an indication someone
isn't playing nice.

If you're saying I wasn't playing nice, that's understandable I mean after all its very possible I didn't play nice but I tried my best to.

I believe Eclipse was referring to your former squadron commander here. Assignment to a 000 shouldn't be used as disciplinary action and should definitely not done as a "going away present".

Ok so I'm rehashing this a bit; its been awhile, we let the dust settle but I have more questions and this comes to mind right now:

You said that 000 shouldn't be used as a disciplinary action, I met with the new commander tonight and he says basically i am suspended...  I'm at a loss and confused (and he is not willing to "unsuspend" me until he has all the information that would be in the best interest of CAP.  But, we also agreed that those would-be are not calling it a "suspension" but in the personnel regulations pertaining to suspension he believes that is my current status.

So I told him I'd like to know how am I suspended if I wasn't told I was suspended, and he clearly pointed to the fact that I'm in 000 would indicate being suspended; that's not the impression I got from this thread nor the regulations. I'm pretty sure AFAIK that if you're suspended you don't have access to eServices (which I do).

[Eclipse]

000 does not equal suspended.

Log into eservices and see what your membership says.

[mynetdude]

000 does not equal suspended.

Log into me services and see what your membership says.

Can you cite where it says in the regs that 000 isn't suspended? Cuz I can't find it in the regs, but maybe I am suspended with a 2B I don't know anything about; but eServices has a red banner at the top telling me to renew my membership (since it expires Oct 31st).

Look, to sum it up I didn't get along with the previous commander, I couldn't; because he was badgering, belittling and quite frankly discriminating but I couldn't prove the discrimination.

I need some hard evidence to take back to the new commander that I am NOT suspended; everybody (the squadron CC, and wing and the previous commander) seem to think I am suspended.  Like I said in my recent above post, how can you call it something other than a suspension when I'm suspended (if that were the case?)

[PHall]

The Commander has available to them your membership status, active, retired, patron or suspended.
It should be on the Commander's Dashboard.  This is something that you as a regular member do not have access to.

[mynetdude]

The Commander has available to them your membership status, active, retired, patron or suspended.
It should be on the Commander's Dashboard.  This is something that you as a regular member do not have access to.

I answered my own question, sorry for wasting your time

[mynetdude]

Ok I read this at CAP knowledgebase:

(3) A copy of the CAPF 2a will be retained in the unit file and a copy will be forwarded to NHQ CAP/DP for processing. Members in suspended status will be removed from the active membership rolls and will not be authorized access to eServices. (which is what I said, I still have access to eServices).

I now have what I need, thanks

[mynetdude]

So back to the one question I have:

Since I am not suspended (I have access to eServices) and I am still a full fledged CAP member (not a patron, because Patron members don't have access to ops quals which I have access to still). Do I need permission to go to squadron meetings and participate in activities that do not require CC approval? (since I am at 000, I can't get approvals to go to encampment, or conferences, etc).

Is there any regulation concerning CAP members attending squadron meetings as a guest as far as what they can/can't do (like help out, etc); after all I AM a full fledged member, I can attend any squadron, participate in any SAREX (I just can't get CC approval for training).

[PHall]

So back to the one question I have:

Since I am not suspended (I have access to eServices) and I am still a full fledged CAP member (not a patron, because Patron members don't have access to ops quals which I have access to still). Do I need permission to go to squadron meetings and participate in activities that do not require CC approval? (since I am at 000, I can't get approvals to go to encampment, or conferences, etc).

Is there any regulation concerning CAP members attending squadron meetings as a guest as far as what they can/can't do (like help out, etc); after all I AM a full fledged member, I can attend any squadron, participate in any SAREX (I just can't get CC approval for training).

I had access to e-services when I was suspended a couple of years ago. So I would not rely on that as an indicator.

[mynetdude]

So back to the one question I have:

Since I am not suspended (I have access to eServices) and I am still a full fledged CAP member (not a patron, because Patron members don't have access to ops quals which I have access to still). Do I need permission to go to squadron meetings and participate in activities that do not require CC approval? (since I am at 000, I can't get approvals to go to encampment, or conferences, etc).

Is there any regulation concerning CAP members attending squadron meetings as a guest as far as what they can/can't do (like help out, etc); after all I AM a full fledged member, I can attend any squadron, participate in any SAREX (I just can't get CC approval for training).

I had access to e-services when I was suspended a couple of years ago. So I would not rely on that as an indicator.

How did you know you were suspended? Were you transferred to 000 when you got suspended? (or was the transfer to 000 part of your suspension process in 2 steps?) How long were you suspended for? (suspensions more than 60 days requires approval of the next higher CC up to 180 days MAXIMUM).

The regs doesn't even say a transfer is required to even be suspended (you can be suspended while in your unit, a transfer is not necessary).

Edit correction: It hasn't been fully 60 days yet (in 7 more days it will be assuming I was suspended on the 17th of June when I was transferred to 000); but that brings me to another question: I wrote this thread on the 16th of June how could I have known about it beforehand? Interesting!

Also, FYI there is no requirement to notify said member of suspension UNLESS the suspension is for a pending membership termination action (a 2B) THEN you get notified that you're suspended otherwise as far as I can see in the regs; a mere suspension requires no notification (HOWEVER what have you, how the hell do you know you're suspended if you're not told otherwise? Because you surely don't want to show up in uniform to a meeting while suspended as that's a big no no).

Oh yeah, did NHQ know about your suspension when you were suspended? The regulations require NHQ to be notified of this personnel action, if they weren't then you were incorrectly suspended no matter the intent AND was your LSCode anything other than "A" as Eclipse has pointed out?

I'm finding that there are really really big holes in this (as far as my "suspension" goes).

[Eclipse]

000 is not, in any way, directly connected to being suspended.

If you are in a 000 unit, you aren't in your old unit anymore, and won't be again unless the commander
manually and purposely transfers you back, which is in no way required.

You are no longer that CC's concern.

You don't actually have to be put in suspended status. In 000 there is very little you can do as 000
units have no CC.  While many wings put people in Patron status when moved to 000, it's not required
and some don't bother.

Suspension is a disciplinary status and requires specific action to implement and follow on as per the regs.
Transfer to 000 requires none of that, provides little recourse, and has little appeal if a Unit CC won't accept
the respective member.

Whatever is going on there, it sounds like they are done with you, right or wrong. 

[Eclipse]

Log into eServices and look at your member status, if it is anything but "A" you've got an issue.

If you can't get into eServices, you might not even be a member any more.

Beyond that, I would suggest contacting someone at you wing or higher, maybe even NHQ to at least
get straight answers and end this dance.

[Eclipse]

So back to the one question I have:

Since I am not suspended (I have access to eServices) and I am still a full fledged CAP member (not a patron, because Patron members don't have access to ops quals which I have access to still). Do I need permission to go to squadron meetings and participate in activities that do not require CC approval? (since I am at 000, I can't get approvals to go to encampment, or conferences, etc).

Is there any regulation concerning CAP members attending squadron meetings as a guest as far as what they can/can't do (like help out, etc); after all I AM a full fledged member, I can attend any squadron, participate in any SAREX (I just can't get CC approval for training).

You have to have a CC authorization for any CAP participation. You can't just show up to a unit without the CCs OK.

[mynetdude]

So back to the one question I have:

Since I am not suspended (I have access to eServices) and I am still a full fledged CAP member (not a patron, because Patron members don't have access to ops quals which I have access to still). Do I need permission to go to squadron meetings and participate in activities that do not require CC approval? (since I am at 000, I can't get approvals to go to encampment, or conferences, etc).

Is there any regulation concerning CAP members attending squadron meetings as a guest as far as what they can/can't do (like help out, etc); after all I AM a full fledged member, I can attend any squadron, participate in any SAREX (I just can't get CC approval for training).

You have to have a CC authorization for any CAP participation. You can't just show up to a unit without the CCs OK.

Where in the regs does it say that? Howcome I can go to another squadron meeting from another unit that isn't 000 and still not need permission to participate?

And WHICH CC are you talking about? The squadron's? the wing?

[mynetdude]

Log into eServices and look at your member status, if it is anything but "A" you've got an issue.

If you can't get into eServices, you might not even be a member any more.

Beyond that, I would suggest contacting someone at you wing or higher, maybe even NHQ to at least
get straight answers and end this dance.

LSCode: A <---- is that what you're referring to?

I CAN get into eServices, there's no doubt about that.

[Eclipse]

So back to the one question I have:

Since I am not suspended (I have access to eServices) and I am still a full fledged CAP member (not a patron, because Patron members don't have access to ops quals which I have access to still). Do I need permission to go to squadron meetings and participate in activities that do not require CC approval? (since I am at 000, I can't get approvals to go to encampment, or conferences, etc).

Is there any regulation concerning CAP members attending squadron meetings as a guest as far as what they can/can't do (like help out, etc); after all I AM a full fledged member, I can attend any squadron, participate in any SAREX (I just can't get CC approval for training).

You have to have a CC authorization for any CAP participation. You can't just show up to a unit without the CCs OK.

Where in the regs does it say that? Howcome I can go to another squadron meeting from another unit that isn't 000 and still not need permission to participate?

And WHICH CC are you talking about? The squadron's? the wing?

Commander's authorization, either tacit or explicit is required for >all< CAP activities from the most mundane to the most exciting.
It is a core principle of the organization.  Commanders are personally responsible for a member's experience and conduct,
and therefore must monitor and approve anything a member does.

During the normal course, this is not an issue.  Rarely does one commander care if a member visits another commander's
unit or activity, that is tacit approval.  However, members do not have the right to wander around other units or
activities if they are not welcome.

If you go to a SAREx, you are supposed to get approval of your unit CC.  If a higher HQ, such as the Group or Wing (in the chain)
approves your participation, then so be it, otherwise it's your unit CC's call as to whether you can attend.  ES it tricky because
the quals are national and most missions are run at a wing level or higher, but everything else is at the pleasure of
both your CC and the CC or PIC of the activity.  A lot of members forget, for example, that they need their CC's
approval to staff an encampment. Why?  Because it is the CC's duty and responsibility to insure that member belongs there to begin with.
99% of the time this is a non-issue, but it does come up on occasion that a unit CC does not want Member X going to Activity Y,
and that is well within w respective CC's authority.

Now, in your case, being in 000, you can't just show up unbidden to activities and unit meetings without getting the
approval of at least the local CC or PIC, and if they indicate you are not welcome, you have to leave.

If you're going back to your old unit for the purpose of discussing your status, and the current CC is interested in the
conversation, great, however you can't just participate regularly as if you were a member of that unit if the CC doesn't want you there.

Further, in 000, you have no one to approve your activities as a member.  As mentioned before, technically the Wing CC is
responsible for all members assigned to any charter in his wing, but he is >not< the CC of 000, so it's anyone's call as to whether he
can, or should be approving the participation of a member in "A" status who can't find a home unit, and barring some extenuating circumstances,
few are interested in the conversation. Also as mentioned, most wings these days are putting members into 000 within a month or two
to simply dissuade any notion that 000 is a reserve unit or a long-term home.

Bottom line:
If you are LSCode A, then you are still an active member, and not in any official disciplinary or "suspension" status, however if you
have been transferred to 000, then you are no longer a member of any active charter in the wing, and there is little
you can participate in.  Your records should have been moved to the Admin Officer for wing, and there is no requirement that your old
CC entertain the idea of your transferring back.

So absent either higher HQ intervention, or an IG complaint, you're benched.

I would strongly suggest you stop dancing with local people, contact the Wing IG and settle this once and for all, whatever
the case may be.

[mynetdude]

So absent either higher HQ intervention, or an IG complaint, you're benched.

I wold strongly suggest you stop dancing with local people, contact the Wing IG and settle this once and for all, whatever
the case may be.


Ok I'd love to do that, wing IG won't do/say anything unless I can prove regulations have been violated they want me to fill out a CAPF 30 for them to explicitly do something about it .  But as far as everyone is concerned everybody has followed the regulations and I'm unfortunately inclined to agree (I'm not going to disagree when they're right!) but if I can't show them what regs they have broken then they'll just discard my CAPF 30 to them.

Ok so your explanation about me being unwanted at the CAP unit, fair enough I understand now.  And sadly I agree I'm wasting so much energy on an organization I love despite this "spit in your face politics".

[mynetdude]

Oh, Eclipse, the new CC has only been in CAP for almost 2 years less than I, but has plenty of experience in leading and following regulations... I'm surprised he mentioned I was suspended... I don't know how they got to that but I'm hoping that my ability to prove that whoever told him that I was suspended is wrong (no I'm not saying the new CC is wrong but he better get it right too).

I'm just hoping that the new CC is going to see that I wasn't the one causing the problems but I sure as hell didn't solve any either and I want back in now that the problem disappeared on its own. I have a meeting with him next week and if he doesn't want to budge then I have no regrets letting my membership lapse and rejoining in another state.

[a2capt]

If you are suspended - you can't even get into eServices. You get an "invalid member" error, "and unable to renew online at this time", "please call ... for assistance". Though you could be considered suspended at the unit level, and it was not done the typical, complete way. So someone transferred you to the 000 unit instead. But that 000 in and of itself does not mean suspension.

[mynetdude]

If you are suspended - you can't even get into eServices. You get an "invalid member" error, "and unable to renew online at this time", "please call ... for assistance". Though you could be considered suspended at the unit level, and it was not done the typical, complete way. So someone transferred you to the 000 unit instead. But that 000 in and of itself does not mean suspension.

Is it even allowed to "suspend" a member without doing a personnel action? According to the regulations a suspension at the unit level still requires a form 2A to be sent to NHQ/DP, now... I have had my promotion withheld for 30 days but no paperwork was actually done on it.

If you're gonna suspend a member for a week... big whup... that's only one meeting and maybe one activity during that week and I would not care if a 2A was actually submitted; suspend them for 30 days, now we're talking about a whole lot of action they are missing out on and I'd want to see actual paperwork being pushed to NHQ if it were indeed an actual suspension.

It also confuses me that some people seem to think that they can still be suspended and have access to eServices (just ask PHall, that's why I asked him a zillion questions about his suspension); I'm getting mighty frustrated and pissed off at this whole circus, its not your guys' fault but this is all childish games why can't anybody at CAP grow up? (again, not referring to you guys here on the forums).

Well.. I might as well BE suspended since I can't go to any squadron without permission!

[a2capt]

A member can be suspended by any commander.

Most will do it properly, completely, by filling out the 2A and pushing it up the chain.

Some may do it by just saying it, and requesting your membership card.

That would be improper, and you can start your F30 with that, or anything in between.

In the days before eServices was as much as it was, a commander would suspend, and put a 2A on file. Done. Unit or Group can suspend for a maximum of 60 days only. Anything more and the Wing or higher has to get involved.

60 days. Anything more and you're either owed an explanation as to why, and that would mean that Wing is involved, or an un-encumbered membership. Sounds like you have neither. Just a he-says-she-says scenario. Because action was taken in a half-ar$ed manner. Certainly not IAW CAPR 35-1.

There's your issue right there. It certainly sounds like it's been more than 60 days. I'm going out on a limb on the 2A having to require -why- you are suspended. I don't think it needs to. But documentation goes a long way in holding up a story.