Squadron Credit Cards

[captrncap]

Per CAPR 173-1, a squadron can have a credit card provided that a local policy of its uses is developed.

How do squadrons obtain credit cards?

Does any squadron have one?

Does this work better with the Wing Bankers Solution for small purchases, etc?

[Galahad]

This question probably belongs in the "Don't Ask - Don't Tell" category so as not to ruin it for squadrons that already have credit cards.   

It's difficult to obtain a credit card after you've converted to wing banking and closed out your checking and savings account.  If you have significant funds in CDs it may be possible to sweet-talk a local bank or credit union into giving you a squadron credit card using the CDs as collateral.   The bigger banks will probably show you the door because there's no real money in it for them and they have no reason to support local service organizations.

[ctrossen]

I first asked the question a couple of years ago when I was looking to get a gas card for the unit, but it never went any further until this year. With the rewrite of 173-1 that explicitly allows the use of credit cards, our wing finance officer did the legwork to make it happen.

The requirements were fairly simple - write a local policy that incorporated a few specific bits of guidance, forward that to the wing finance officer with a request for a unit credit card.  The wing is the "umbrella agency", but the individual cards are issued in the name of the specific unit (and the billing address is that unit's address).

Considering that our wing went to the Wing Banker Program (WBP) this fiscal year, I think that a unit credit card is an absolute necessity. Gone are the days when we can simply cut a check on Monday evening after a weekend mission/activity/whatever, and we have members that can't really afford to "eat" the couple of hundred dollars a cross-state trip or mission would cost. It allows us to make purchases immediately, which is a definite good thing if you're on the WBP.

Of course, just remember you still need to keep appropriate documentation (KEEP THOSE RECEIPTS).

[ZigZag911]

I believe debit cards are explicitly prohibited by regulation, and I'm not certain why, as it seems a more appropriate instrument for squadron or group level use....after all, a local unit can not use a credit card the way an individual might, running a balance. Units, it seems to me, anyway, to remain in accord with CAP finance practices, really should not be spending more than they have in their wing-based 'account'.

So -- why no debit cards?

[JAFO78]

To  me a debt card would make more sense, because you can only spend what is available, plus you don't pay interest. or a check card even could work.

[ADCAPer]

I believe debit cards are explicitly prohibited by regulation, and I'm not certain why, as it seems a more appropriate instrument for squadron or group level use

The reason you can't have a Debit card is because it would be tied to the Wing Banking account (which local units cannot be allowed to have any control over).

Debit cards would completely destroy the model of this program, which requires all units to surrender their funds to the Wing and then "request" reimbursement.

[Al Sayre]

Not only that, but it goes against the whole Finance Committee Approval of large purchases.  A debit card in the wrong hands can empty the Squadron (and now the Wings) coffers of cash directly, without anyone knowing, in just a couple of days.

[Pylon]

Not only that, but it goes against the whole Finance Committee Approval of large purchases.  A debit card in the wrong hands can empty the Squadron (and now the Wings) coffers of cash directly, without anyone knowing, in just a couple of days.

Correct; at least to add to that, with most credit cards, the consumer is protected from fraud and unauthorized transactions.  I/E:  Member Joe Schmoe gets ahold of the squadron card and decides to fill up his gas tank, buy a trampoline, and a new Armani suit; the unit reports the activity as fradulent, even though it's by one of their own members, and the squadron doesn't lose any actual money.

It does, however, open squadrons up to the potential of generating debt and any finance committee would be wise to avoid buying more than the squadron can pay right at that moment and pay each month in full.

Anybody here have experience using a squadron-level credit card?  Anybody here have a squadron who uses one?

[NIN]

I believe debit cards are explicitly prohibited by regulation, and I'm not certain why, as it seems a more appropriate instrument for squadron or group level use....after all, a local unit can not use a credit card the way an individual might, running a balance. Units, it seems to me, anyway, to remain in accord with CAP finance practices, really should not be spending more than they have in their wing-based 'account'.

So -- why no debit cards?

Yeah, it violates the whole "two-signature" sort of system for unit funds.

Even a credit card does, somewhat.

But an ATM/debit card, moreso an old-style ATM card, is definitely out there.

[brasda91]

Not only that, but it goes against the whole Finance Committee Approval of large purchases.  A debit card in the wrong hands can empty the Squadron (and now the Wings) coffers of cash directly, without anyone knowing, in just a couple of days.

Anybody here have experience using a squadron-level credit card?  Anybody here have a squadron who uses one?

Yes.  I applied for a credit card using my credit.  The card had my name and Civil Air Patrol on it.  Probably not the best way to get a card, but it worked.  The idea behind the card was for refueling the van, when out of town.  We didn't send any policies to the Wing Finance Officer or anything.  Wing probably didn't even know we had a credit card.

[ZigZag911]

Couldn't a debit card be created with a built in limit, whatever the unit commander's individual spending authority was?

I thought the point was to bridge the gap of operating expenses on missions and unit field trips to reduce out of pocket expenses for the leadership, not develop an instrument that could handle all a squadron's finance needs!

[ADCAPer]

Couldn't a debit card be created with a built in limit, whatever the unit commander's individual spending authority was?

I may be wrong here, but I believe your operating under the assumption that your funds are going into an account at the Wing that is for your unit.  This is not the case, your funds (along with every other unit in your wing) are being turned over to the Wing and they are depositing them into one account that belongs to the Wing. The Wings are already going to have issues insuring that whoever is running the books can keep everyones balances straight. Can you imagine a joint account with multiple users having Debit Cards at locations all across a state?

Also, we've already heard in another thread on this board where a Wing illegaly "borrowed" some funds from the Wing Bank to pay a bill for a unit that was running a little short. Can you imagine what types of issues would surface if you (and every other unit in your Wing) actually had a way to immediately obligate your units funds without the wing being able to slow down or refuse a Check "Request"?

[Al Sayre]

We just joined Wing Banker, and the biggest problem seems to be people making deposits and not telling Wing they did it.  The Wing Administrator has to keep sending emails asking who/which Squadron made a deposit for $XXX.XX on Augtember 32nd? ...

[mikeylikey]

I/E:  Member Joe Schmoe gets ahold of the squadron card and decides to fill up his gas tank, buy a trampoline, and a new Armani suit; the unit reports the activity as fradulent, even though it's by one of their own members, and the squadron doesn't lose any actual money.

I can see it now.....Joe Schmoe jumping on his trampoline while sporting his Armani suit!  Man.....I want to be that guy!!!   

[MIKE]

It'd be like The Man Show but without the scantly clad women.

[Eagle400]

It'd be like The Man Show but without the scantly clad women.

[ZigZag911]

I may be wrong here, but I believe your operating under the assumption that your funds are going into an account at the Wing that is for your unit.  This is not the case, your funds (along with every other unit in your wing) are being turned over to the Wing and they are depositing them into one account that belongs to the Wing.

Thanks, I don't think I actually had that clear in my mind, though of course it makes sense....oh well, back to the drawing board!

I am so glad I'm not a finance officer!

[SarDragon]

Actually, QuickBooks makes it very easy to keep track of all the funds. I use Quicken here at home, and track 5 or 6 categories of allocated funds in a single savings account, and it's very easy. It's no different that using categories to track revenue and expenses in a checking account, which finance officers are already doing in Quicken.

[ADCAPer]

Actually, QuickBooks makes it very easy to keep track of all the funds. I use Quicken here at home, and track 5 or 6 categories of allocated funds in a single savings account, and it's very easy. It's no different that using categories to track revenue and expenses in a checking account, which finance officers are already doing in Quicken.

And the absolute worse thing that can happen is that you make a mistake and interfere with your own finances.

This isn't the case with Wing Banking. CAP has set up a program where anyone can be appointed to the Wing Banker position, and with no formal training that individual is now acting as a Bank, using an off the shelf software program to guide the day to day to day activities of multiple personnel and locations who are responsible to other private companies and organizations. I'm sorry, thats not a bank, thats someone trying to balance an extremely large checkbook, and their only doing it as a part time job. I'd rather have my own bank.

I'm still trying to figure out how CAP thinks they are going to get around the myriad of state banking laws with the general membership finally realizing what is going on. If your in a unit that is accustomed to actually generating a little intereset on your account, have you thought about whats about to happen? I know that in my state only a "legally" operating state certified bank can apportion interest, so the options are for the Wings to admit that the units are surrendering their locally obtained funds to National, or admit that they are operating an illegal banking enterprise.  I wonder which option they'll choose once the heat is on?