Senior Member D&C, redux...

[Nomex Maximus]

Drill and Ceremony training for seniors. Fine. Required for everyone upon entry into CAP. Fine. You want to organize and present the class, fine, let's get it done and we can all be happy.

Want a uniform day? I'd rather have uniforms required at all meetings for all units. It is hard to get motivated to wear a uniform when you end up being the only one showing up in uniform. And, for what it's worth, I personally would like to see an end to the golf shirt as a uniform. Wear it casually at a CAP barbeque, fine, but not as a real uniform. Just my opinion.

[♠SARKID♠]

I'd rather have uniforms required at all meetings for all units

Agreed.  Being out of uniform looks just as sloppy as bad D&C/C&C.

[MIKE]

I'd rather have uniforms required at all meetings for all units.

They kinda are... If you read CAPR 39-1 Table 1-1.

[Lancer]

Uniform wear at every meeting? Absolutely. You won't be a part of a cadet squadron if you don't, at least actively anyways.

I know you're new at your unit, and I know the history of the lack of uniform wear within that particular senior squadron. If your truly serious in your intentions, then I wish you luck in getting your fellow squadron members to follow suit.

From what I understand, even getting members there to wear the polo combo is a challenge there, and in my mind that is sad. I know your squadron commander has the same desires as you for uniform wear, that is why I believe he's 'starting slow' by getting people to wear at least the polo. If you haven't already had discussions with him on the subject, I say sit down with him and discuss ideas on what you think you can do to convince you squadron mates to do the same.

I say, wear your uniform at every meeting.

As far as I'm concerned, if you're going to be a member, and your going to come to a meeting, you MUST wear a uniform.

An interesting question I have is, if your a member of a senior squadron, or a composite that meets seperately from it's cadets, do you wear a uniform, and if not, why?

[Nomex Maximus]

Lancer -

As pointed out in previous threads, the CAP recruiting brochure itself makes it sound like wearing the uniform is not required - and it does this no doubt to put potential new members at ease that they won't have to do something they might see as "silly" or "unnecessary".

I have shown up twice in uniform once in BBDU and once in BDU as I had just gotten them back from the tailor with the new tags and such. I felt very overdressed for the occasion.

 

[JayT]

Lancer -

As pointed out in previous threads, the CAP recruiting brochure itself makes it sound like wearing the uniform is not required - and it does this no doubt to put potential new members at ease that they won't have to do something they might see as "silly" or "unnecessary".

I have shown up twice in uniform once in BBDU and once in BDU as I had just gotten them back from the tailor with the new tags and such. I felt very overdressed for the occasion.

 

Sir, which brochue are you talking about?

[MIKE]

Wasn't this thread supposed to be about SM D&C?

[Lancer]

Lancer -

As pointed out in previous threads, the CAP recruiting brochure itself makes it sound like wearing the uniform is not required - and it does this no doubt to put potential new members at ease that they won't have to do something they might see as "silly" or "unnecessary".

See, it's that attitude that I have an issue with. If you are serious enough about the organization to want to join,  you should be serious enough to follow it's regulations and requirements, and wear the uniform. Simple enough.

I have shown up twice in uniform once in BBDU and once in BDU as I had just gotten them back from the tailor with the new tags and such. I felt very overdressed for the occasion.

So you say you felt overdressed eh? What did your squadron mates say about seeing you in your uniform? What did your CC say?

If things don't change the way you want to see them, then we can certainly use your skills at our unit.

Wasn't this thread supposed to be about SM D&C?

Well, you can't have one without the other, i.e. uniform wear > D &C... All of which are lacking in his unit.

[Nomex Maximus]

Wasn't this thread supposed to be about SM D&C?

The issues include wearing the unifrom.

[Nomex Maximus]

So you say you felt overdressed eh? What did your squadron mates say about seeing you in your uniform? What did your CC say?

If things don't change the way you want to see them, then we can certainly use your skills at our unit.

They didn't really say anything. Technically, I think we have something written down in unit policy that says that the golf shirt is the unit's official uniform. So, technically *I* am out of uniform.

And when you get a 182 let me know.

[Lancer]

And when you get a 182 let me know.

I didn't know custodial duties over a CAP Corporate Aircraft asset made a unit better than another? 

ANYWAYS...

I invite you to come to one of our meetings, talk with our cadets, I'd think you'd be pretty impressed with how things roll.

[Nomex Maximus]

Sir, which brochue are you talking about?

http://www.cap.gov/documents/ProspectPacketHiRes.pdf

Page six, near the bottom of the first column.

[Nomex Maximus]

. . .
Well, you can't have one without the other, i.e. uniform wear > D &C... All of which are lacking in his unit.
. . .

Hey! No dissin' my unit!

BTW, we have a CAP charter member in our unit (joined in 1942).

[Lancer]

Hey! No dissin' my unit!

Sorry if the truth hurts.  :angel: In all seriousness though... I don't think you would talk about it if you didn't think it was important for your fellow members to act accordingly.

BTW, we have a CAP charter member in our unit (joined in 1942).

Yes, I've met Casey, he came to our open house last year. Nice old fella.

[davedove]

Sir, which brochue are you talking about?

http://www.cap.gov/documents/ProspectPacketHiRes.pdf

Page six, near the bottom of the first column.

This is the statement you're talking about:

"However, some members choose to serve quietly without wearing a
uniform."

But, in Table 1-1 in CAPM 39-1 we have this statement:

"when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions"

These statements seem to completely contradict one another to me.

[jimmydeanno]

Yes, "however, some members choose to serve quietly without a uniform," is refering to CSMs and that other membership category (the ones that only give money.)

[Pylon]

This is the statement you're talking about:

"However, some members choose to serve quietly without wearing a
uniform."

But, in Table 1-1 in CAPM 39-1 we have this statement:

"when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions"

These statements seem to completely contradict one another to me.

The statements are contradictory and I think are an attempt to persuade people who might be turned off by feeling they have to wear a uniform.  I think people who are adverse to wearing any uniform when performing CAP duties and attending CAP functions might best be served by a Patron membership.  If that's what the brochure meant, they should clarify that point as it can be very misleadinbg.  I personally think it does a lot for unit cohesion and inducing a sense of professionalism when everybody shows up in a uniform; I think it even goes a lot farther when everybody shows up in the UOD.

As for the Senior Member D&C, we did beat this to death but I think a quick primer as a part of Level I is not a big deal.  Cover left, right, and about facing movements; cover how to march (left foot first, arm swing, etc) briefly, how to salute properly (and when to salute), and how to stand in formation (attention, parade rest, etc.)   That could be covered in 15 minutes by a dynamic instructor and should cover most of what SM's need to know in an average squadron-level senior member's career.

You could add more specific things to courses like UCC, where a commander might find themselves doing more in formations, awards presentations and changes of command, etc.  Again, maybe nothing more than a 30 minute block (with quick refresher on the basics).

I know that in the PD courses I've taken (SLS, CLC, UCC) except for TLC (which already has an optional D&C portion as a part of the curriculum), they've instructed all the S'members present on how to properly report to receive their diploma, etc.  

Having senior members who know how to salute, where to salute, and can go up and report to receive an award or promotion properly will go along way to improving unit morale and not embarassing anybody.  Is it necessary?  Nope.   But neither are our uniforms, our plane paint schemes, ribbons and awards, and the like; but we do them because we think they add value to our organization in one form or another.

[Dragoon]

When I was in command, we taught what we called "the Senior Member Manual of Arms"

Attention
Parade Rest
Present/Order Arms
About Face.

This allowed a senior to stand in formation, go forward to report and recieve some kind of award/promotion/bling, and return the ranks.  All ya need to know.

But even with this abbrevated syllabus, some folks couldn't do an about face to save their lives.  Especially those with, shall we say, weight and balance issues.

[Grumpy]

"But even with this abbrevated syllabus, some folks couldn't do an about face to save their lives.  Especially those with, shall we say, weight and balance issues."

You got that right.  Being and old SAC Air Policemen, I used to be pretty good at that stuff.  Going on 63 years old now and retired on a bad back I find it hard to maintain my balance when doing an about face.

[RogueLeader]

If anybody doesn't show up in uniform, they aren't covered by any insurance except for their own personal insurance.  Did you know that if you get killed on the way to a CAP Meeting- God forbid- that family will get money?  It's true, but no uniform- tough luck then.