Fitting CAP Funeral Formalities

[JayT]

Guys, CAP isn't really a search and rescue organization, and I don't think we should pretend that we're on par with a lot of other oganizations. If anything, we should conform to our military traitions way before any 'SAR' traditions.

We're not a SAR organization? Better tell the cap.gov webmaster!

From the CAP webpage:

"OPERATIONS
Performs 95 percent of nation's inland search and rescue
100 lives on average saved per year
Aerial reconnaissance for homeland security
Disaster relief and damage assessment
Transport for time-sensitive medical materials
Counter-narcotic missions"

We're as much a SAR organization as we are the Air Force Auxiliary.

Ninety five percent of the inland SAR? What exactly does that mean? What does a SAR mission consist of?
Aerial Recce isn't SAR at all, it's Aerial Recce.
DR is such a broad term that I'm not sure what it means.
How often do we really do transport missions?
Counter Narcs is.......counter narcs.

I guess CAP is different things to different people. But it seems to me, more and more lately, that the Search and Rescue aspect of our program, as well as the whole 'US CAP' thing and the 'USAFAux' thing are more to bring people into the program then any meaningful terms.

[JohnKachenmeister]

What I tell my ground teams (and anybody else who will listen)

"SAR" does not equal "Search and Rescue."

"SAR" = "Search and Recovery."

It is at LEAST 6 hours after an aircraft goes missing until we get the call.  Then we assemble a task force under an IC.  2 more hours.  Then we look for the missing plane, 4-8 hours if everything goes right.

So, we are talking a MINIMUM of 12-16 hours before the guy can expect rescue.  Usually much more time is required to find the target. 

If he's badly hurt, he will die in that time.

If he isn't badly hurt, he will call 9-1-1 on his cell phone and get help.  If he can afford to fly an airplane, he can afford that which every teenage girl at the mall has.  In that case, we won't even get the call, he will be rescued before AFRCC even knows he's in trouble.

So, when a decision comes up to take a risky action that may speed things up versus a safer but more time-consuming action, remember, the target is dead.  Tomorrow, he will still be dead.  You and your crew are alive.  I'm sorry about the target, but I think I will try to retain the current status.

The best we can do is recover his carcass before the Florida wildlife eats too much, and the family doesn't have enough to bury.

Cruel?  Yes.  True?  Yes.

[Major Carrales]

When I go, you'd better all be in service caps. 

Honestly, all joking aside, I don't think it is at all out of line for CAP officers to honor their departed brethren.  There should be a rubric for CAP funerals.

[SARMedTech]

So all officers wearing "SAVE" ribbons should take them off? SAR teams do NOT make the decision that a rescue has become a recovery any more than when it IS a recovery we make a determination as to the cause of death. Until they are told otherwise, a good SAR team is always looking for a living person.  We are not coroners or medical examiners. Until someone whose job it is to declare someone dead does so, it is a rescue operation. By telling your teams that they are essentially going out to recover remains, you remove the urgency from the operation. You have just given a team a reason to think that it does not matter when they get there or if they get there at all.

Ive been on many non-CAP SAR operations and have been the team leader on several. Anyone on one of my teams who calls it a search and recovery before we even leave mission base is "invited" to stand down and return home.

[Skyray]

When I go, you had all better be drunk.

There has got to be some Irish in my background somewhere.

[floridacyclist]

My best friend and I grew up in the cadet program together and we have a simple promise to the other: If (when actually) one of us dies, the other will throw the biggest Irish wake you have seen yet with standing orders that no one will remain standing.

Not that I would need orders to get drunk if something happened to him.

[RogueLeader]

My best friend and I grew up in the cadet program together and we have a simple promise to the other: If (when actually) one of us dies, the other will throw the biggest Irish wake you have seen yet with standing orders that no one will remain standing.

Not that I would need orders to get drunk if something happened to him.

Off topic, but would that be considered "sitting" orders.

But I think that having those ideas in place are a good thing.

[JohnKachenmeister]

On the police department we had to fill out these emergency notification forms, and you had to list anybody that you wanted notified of your death, and by whom they should be notified, if you had a preference.

I put down that a deputy chief should notify my dog.

After all, they have about the same size brain.  My dog just has a more pleasant personality and gets along with people better.

[Smokey]

I've attended a number of police officer funerals both in the Chicago area (ref Nomex's comment previously about Chicago area) and on the west coast. Also a couple of CAP funerals.

As for the police....SOP is Class A (that's what we call them) long sleeve with tie. The baton and radio are left off of the Sam Browne belt. West coast agencies for the most part do not have the dress jackets like east coast agencies. So no coat/jacket is worn.

In the Chicago area we wore long sleeve shirt with tie , standard uniform jacket in winter (either the leather or nylon, whichever the agency issued).

I've never seen  utility style uniforms, etc worn at any police funeral.

One CAP funeral had CAP members wearing a variety....service dress, long sleeve blue shirts w/tie, blazer uniform, and corporate white/grey. 

The other, held at a National Cemetery had folks in service dress and the long sleeve blue shirt and tie.  A cadet honor guard did a great job  working well with the military honor guard that was present. Very impressive.

While I respect Nomex's wishes for his final departure...I think, IMHO, service dress is much more appropriate.

[0]

Not sure if it's been said but I like the idea of a fly-over using the cessnas but I'd rather see it done in the missing man formation seems more fitting especially if the loss was in the field. 

Service dress uniforms I think would be warn much more preferable and a sign of respect of the fallen and the fallen's family.

[Flying Pig]

SARMedTech
"...a good SAR team is always looking for a living person.  We are not coroners or medical examiners. Until someone whose job it is to declare someone dead does so, it is a rescue operation. By telling your teams that they are essentially going out to recover remains, you remove the urgency from the operation. You have just given a team a reason to think that it does not matter when they get there or if they get there at all."

Yes and No.  (Non-CAP SARs) Ive been on several SARs where we knew we were looking for a body.  We have a lot of SARs in the high elevation lakes and rivers for people gone missing while rafting or fishing, ie.  somoene finds their raft, or saw someone floating down the river face down.  The Kings River and San Joaquin River are brutal.

We give it our all, but in the end, we arent going to risk lives looking for someone who in a probablity is going to be dead.  We spent 3 days looking for a guy in the upper san Joaquin River who was seen slipping off of a rock into the river and went under in the rapids.  Never seen again.  The helo was on scene in 15 minutes, and the water units took about an hour.  We knew we werent looking for a live person.  Sure you always have that thought about going around the next tree and finding the guy holding onto a rock or something.  But in reality, a river that is fed by snow melt from the Sierras...it aint gonna happen.

We found him 3 days later bouncing along the bottom of a small eddy in the river.

[ddelaney103]

Not sure if it's been said but I like the idea of a fly-over using the cessnas but I'd rather see it done in the missing man formation seems more fitting especially if the loss was in the field. 

Formation flying is a skill requiring dozens of hours to learn and can be a nail biting experience even for trained fighter pilots.

Trying to do it with the usual CAP aviator is just asking for trouble.

[flyerthom]

When I go, you had all better be drunk.

There has got to be some Irish in my background somewhere.

Here Here! Tell ya what. When I'm off duty tonight I'll have one for you!

When I go I want everyone to have a belt not to mourn my passing but celebrate my living and their remaining time. 

[Nomex Maximus]

Not sure if it's been said but I like the idea of a fly-over using the cessnas but I'd rather see it done in the missing man formation seems more fitting especially if the loss was in the field. 

Formation flying is a skill requiring dozens of hours to learn and can be a nail biting experience even for trained fighter pilots.

Trying to do it with the usual CAP aviator is just asking for trouble.

Again, what I suggested is not really a formation. Just a series of slow flyovers by perhaps four aircraft. We already do flyovers for WWII vet funerals. Not sure why a WWII vet would want a CAP plane for a flyover, but hey, that's what's done.

[Grumpy]

Man, this subject is as bad as the saluting subject.  Talk about beating a dead horse.
You guys have said the same things in more ways than I care to count.

As I mentioned the other day, there are already guide lines in place.  Use them.   

[floridacyclist]

When I go I want everyone to have a belt not to mourn my passing but celebrate my living and their remaining time. 

I think that's a good point to make, and that is exactly how Dale and I look at it. It's not a time of grieving, but a going-away party.