Senior Members at the Squadron Meeting--- What do they do???

[SM]

Hello everyone,

First, this is my first time posting here, though as my label says I have been lurking for quite some time.  I have an issue I would like to hear others opinions on. This being what do senior members do at squadron meetings?

So to start from the beginning...

I was a cadet for many years.  After crossing to the dark side at 21(which, by calling it the dark side, is I guess an ominous foreshadowing of my view and experience dealing with senior members...), I was handed the New Horizons pamphlet. In which it specifically says to stay away from the cadet program for at least a year to separate ones self from your former cadet ties and establish yourself as a senior member.  Which makes sense.  So, I began to go to meetings and sit with the seniors.  And I was bored out of my mind...  The squadron I was with basically just sat around and sometimes did stuff with cadets or taught lessons but the majority of the meeting would be just sitting around gossiping or whatnot...  I don't really like to gossip so I stopped going to meetings...  I ended up transferring to the group level and becoming the finance officer and assistant transportation officer...

Fast forward a year, and I became the group Cadet Advisory Council senior advisor... and a little while after that the group cadet programs officer.  Needless to say, I became engrossed in the cadet programs world, yet again. And I was loving it!!  Fast forward again, and I find myself applying to become a Squadron Commander.  At this point, I have nearly a decade of CAP experience to pull from to be successful in my position, and yet I find myself lacking in one area... Senior members.  Now... I am in my third year as a commander.  And I am saddened to say, I am no better with seniors than I was when I became a commander.  The squadron I took over, was at a serious low point when I began.  I basically, started from scratch (except for one very awesome senior member who was my lifeline and right hand man in just about everything...), I had to start recruiting. So I did.  Now, I have a squadron with a full body of cadets and a handful of seniors who are mostly cadets' parents. I make the monthly schedules and on the cadet side its great! Its engrossing, its educational, its fun!  One thing I was told, when gaining command, by my wing commander, was to "always make sure every member leaves the squadron meeting feeling like they accomplished something".  I hate to admit, I have not been able to do that for the senior members.

And I find, I am at a loss for what do do??  I have looked on CAP members and scoured CAPTalk... but I haven't been able to find any kind of lesson plans or leadership classes or anything that would be like an equivalent to the cadet schedule...  The only thing I can find is an excerpt from the Unit Commanders Course that says:

"Senior member meetings do not have a suggested format per se, a great deal of
flexibility is provided to accomplish the meeting objectives here. As a starting point,
many elements of the cadet meeting format may be adapted for the senior meetings,
and while there is no suggested format, it is highly recommended to have a planned
agenda to include discussions & activities that will meet your objectives in a
meaningful and productive way. Your members will expect a quality program and
meeting, as they are giving up valuable time to be there. Quality meetings are
essential to retaining senior members and maintaining unit effectiveness."

Well, that just doesn't help at all... here I am, I get the seniors in and they do their level 1.  We get them involved in a position in the squadron.  They work on their Professional Development and grade requirements, but that is mostly done outside of the squadron, not during the meetings.  And then... nothing.  And then... they sit around gossiping... I have come full circle into the very reason I left my home squadron all those years ago.  I have, unfortunately, noticed a decline in my senior member participation over the last six months.  And I suspect, it is as it was for me.  They were bored!  I don't have the experience to pull from... I would appreciate anything you all have to say.  I am at a complete loss.

Other than teaching lessons to cadets, safety, emergency services, a prodev check-in and finance committee meetings... I don't have anything really on the schedule for the seniors.  But there is sooo much more time to be filled.  I will pretty much take anything into consideration at this point.  I want to get them involved and engrossed just like the cadets.  I want them to want to come back, not because their kid is a cadet, but because they want to.  Thank you all ahead of time.

[dwb]

You need a Deputy Commander for Seniors! You can work with that person to lay out a plan for senior members.

In a composite squadron, you'll always have some number of senior members that are working with or supervising cadets every week. Then you have your core staff seniors that may or may not be there every week but are usually busy (finance, safety, admin, logistics, etc.) And you might have a bunch of other seniors that either don't have duty assignments or they're not duties that keep them occupied all meeting long. It's that last group that can be perplexing.

We like to say "a busy cadet is a happy cadet", but that applies to senior members as well!

Things we have done with the senior member corps on a meeting night:

- ICUT training
- Mission scanner/observer tasks
- Cross-training with other specialty areas
- Ground team equipment checks
- Yeager Award study group
- SUI preparation (even if you don't have one coming soon)
- Knocking out some knowledge and training objectives in their specialty tracks
- Pick a senior to teach a topic in their area of expertise to everybody else
- eServices/LMS night: get everyone through an LMS course
- Develop an annual plan with measurable objectives for every mission/support area

You're pretty fortunate in that you have seniors assigned to all the critical roles (except Deputy Commander for Seniors), but I'm sure some of those seniors might be interested in other things. Talk to them and find out, then assign assistants across functional areas and have people teach each other. Pick one of your high-speed staffers and make them the Deputy for Seniors to help you wrangle all of this.

[jdh]

How many Seniors in your Squadron have earned their Yeager Award? You might want to have one of the AEOs teach the Yeager if you have people that need it.

If you have seniors without a Tech rating they should be working with their OJT mentor or the PDO learning what they need for the rating, and those that do have a Tech rating should be working towards their Senior rating and helping train assistants.

Do you have a set group of seniors that provide instruction to your cadets or do you have seniors teach courses to them based on life experiences?

There are a lot of things that you can have seniors doing during your meetings, one of the things that we do in my squadron is once a senior learns their job we start having them cross train each other.

Edit: It appears dwb posted while I was typing.

[SM]

You need a Deputy Commander for Seniors! You can work with that person to lay out a plan for senior members.

In a composite squadron, you'll always have some number of senior members that are working with or supervising cadets every week. Then you have your core staff seniors that may or may not be there every week but are usually busy (finance, safety, admin, logistics, etc.) And you might have a bunch of other seniors that either don't have duty assignments or they're not duties that keep them occupied all meeting long. It's that last group that can be perplexing.

We like to say "a busy cadet is a happy cadet", but that applies to senior members as well!

Things we have done with the senior member corps on a meeting night:

- ICUT training
- Mission scanner/observer tasks
- Cross-training with other specialty areas
- Ground team equipment checks
- Yeager Award study group
- SUI preparation (even if you don't have one coming soon)
- Knocking out some knowledge and training objectives in their specialty tracks
- Pick a senior to teach a topic in their area of expertise to everybody else
- eServices/LMS night: get everyone through an LMS course
- Develop an annual plan with measurable objectives for every mission/support area

You're pretty fortunate in that you have seniors assigned to all the critical roles (except Deputy Commander for Seniors), but I'm sure some of those seniors might be interested in other things. Talk to them and find out, then assign assistants across functional areas and have people teach each other. Pick one of your high-speed staffers and make them the Deputy for Seniors to help you wrangle all of this.

These are great suggestions! Thank you!  I have considered doing a Unit Self Assessment(even though we don't really do them anymore...) just to fill some time and be better prepared for our SUI next year...  I really like the Yeager Award study group idea!

[SM]

How many Seniors in your Squadron have earned their Yeager Award?

A few do... but not many.  This seems like a good idea. Thanks!  We are more of an Aerospace oriented squadron.  So this would really be good for us.

[THRAWN]

Do some "in service professional development": have a series of "book club" discussions on management and leadership books; host a lecture series given by public safety, military, political or business leaders; host your own internal "Toastmasters" sessions....lots of fun stuff to do in addition to the normal filing of CAPF2b and updating CAPM 39-1 with the latest ABU ICLs.

[sarmed1]

I have always found a good starting point is ask them why they are there and what they wan to be doing.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to build a senior program.  Because the group is usually smaller than your cadet group and they are at all ends of the spectrum in their "career".  This makes it difficult to have a concentrated plan of attack.  Equally complicating this is that if you "make" them sit in on a class that benefits some, they get bored, disgruntled, tired etc etc and move on. 

Also, many adult learners are geared toward "self learning"  having a class is sometimes not the way to keep them interested.  They are ok "learning" the materiel on their own, and at best look for clarification/re-enforcement at best.

The other complication (again part of the "why are you hear" game) is that most seniors are there to (or were ensnared to) do a job.  Sort of the hi, welcome, I see you work at the bank, we are going to make you the finance officer OK!  before they ever do much else.  They have become engrossed in or otherwise focused on doing their job.   I have seen 20 plus year LT's (and content being LT's) because they are to busy doing and being great at that one (or as usual, many jobs) that they dont wont to or feel the need to work on anything else (like PD)  You may have to accept that as perfectly ok.  Personally I think this is part of the big failure on CAP's SM program part.  Units are usually starved for SM help, they throw them into a job from day 1.  Sometimes I feel that they shouldnt be put into that realm (ie not eligible to even be assigned) until they reach a certain level of PD/Rank etc etc...  Sort of keep them in a "flight" all of their own where you can "force feed" them the main PD type of stuff.

MK

[SM]

Do some "in service professional development": have a series of "book club" discussions on management and leadership books; host a lecture series given by public safety, military, political or business leaders; host your own internal "Toastmasters" sessions....lots of fun stuff to do in addition to the normal filing of CAPF2b and updating CAPM 39-1 with the latest ABU ICLs.

A book club, not likely, as that would mean I also have to read the books.  Not that I am against reading books... I just don't have the time...  But maybe its something they could do on their own.  A lecture series is a neat idea though.  Thanks.

PS-  I like the 2A's better!!!

[NIN]

Do some "in service professional development": have a series of "book club" discussions on management and leadership books; host a lecture series given by public safety, military, political or business leaders; host your own internal "Toastmasters" sessions....lots of fun stuff to do in addition to the normal filing of CAPF2b and updating CAPM 39-1 with the latest ABU ICLs.

A book club, not likely, as that would mean I also have to read the books.  Not that I am against reading books... I just don't have the time...  But maybe its something they could do on their own.  A lecture series is a neat idea though.  Thanks.

PS-  I like the 2A's better!!!

Honestly, though, that kind of professional development (ie. the Chief of Staff's reading list, discussions about a specific book) is a great way to get some long term learning going.

[dwb]

One other thing. NIN is fond of saying "a squadron that plays together stays together". You'll improve retention if the senior members have some social time outside of CAP meetings.

When I was a squadron commander, this was as simple as going to the soft serve ice cream stand after summer meetings. I also hosted my senior members for a party after we bought our house. Make sure seniors are included in any social events that cadets participate in, but honestly, I like senior-only social time, too. Maybe that's only a couple times a year, but it matters.

A corollary to this is the expectation that meetings are for business. Not that you need to be rigid and unfriendly, but rather the BS sessions and "remember when" stories are for after the meeting, not during it. When cadets arrive at meetings, they expect there's going to be some structure, and hopefully you're accomplishing things every week. Seniors need to arrive with the same expectation.

It's not something you can do by fiat, it's just a cultural thing that you work on over time.

You can begin to add structure by having themes for each meeting night. For example, the 2nd week of the month always has something safety-related. Or the 4th week will have an ES slant.

This starts with having a plan. I put the "develop annual plan" bullet last on my list above, but maybe it should have been first. If you want to know what your seniors should be doing during meetings, then they themselves need to have some goals they're working towards. If you know you want to get x% of seniors their Yeager before August 1, 2016, then that gives a rough outline to the next six AE-themed meeting nights.

Don't forget to appoint a Deputy Commander for Seniors. You should not be doing all of this yourself. Delegate or die!

[Al Sayre]

A good place to start is by asking them what they want to do (CAP related) and then see if you can integrate that into the schedule. 

Unfortunately, a lot of SM's are given a job function that they can't define and have no idea where to start, so they basically show up every week waiting for the commander or deputy to tell them what to do.  This goes on until they lose interest and quit or move on.  AEX's for SM's, guest speakers, planning meetings for squadron events etc. are all things that can get them interested and motivated.  Hope this helps YMMV.

[NIN]

One other thing. NIN is fond of saying "a squadron that plays together stays together". You'll improve retention if the senior members have some social time outside of CAP meetings.

When I was a squadron commander, this was as simple as going to the soft serve ice cream stand after summer meetings. I also hosted my senior members for a party after we bought our house. Make sure seniors are included in any social events that cadets participate in, but honestly, I like senior-only social time, too. Maybe that's only a couple times a year, but it matters.
It's not something you can do by fiat, it's just a cultural thing that you work on over time.

^^ This guys gets it!

(no, I've only known Dan since he was but a wee cadet...)

This is a thing to put in your "tool kit"

On keeping CAP social:

Back when I was on a hiatus from CAP in the mid 1990s (there had been some ... turbulence ... in my wing, and was getting married, so it was time to take a break..) I moved to an apartment in the 'burbs, probably 20-30 minutes from where I'd been active in CAP.  My mentor and former squadron commander had take over a troubled unit nearby, and they eventually merged with another squadron and consolidated their meetings at a reserve center about a mile from my apartment. (couldn't have been that troubled.. it was the 1994 Nat'l Sq of Distinction. LOL) The squadron's "after-meeting meeting" was at a local restaurant literally in front of my apartment complex.  So, you know, on Wednesday nights, why not wander down to the "Romeo Hotel" to see the gang?  Even if I took the long way, it was a 1 minute walk.  And that meeting (and my friend) was most of the reason I came back from hiatus in 1996.

I was later the deputy commander of this squadron, and then the squadron commander circa 1997.  And our after-meeting meetings continued unabated, and were even so very popular that occasionally folks from Colonel (then Major) Ed Phelka's adjacent squadron would come after their meeting. 

When I moved to New England in 1998, well, lets just say there was a "different vibe."  There was no such thing as an after-meeting meeting. Not at all. Not even close. "You guys go over to Friendly's after the meeting?" was met with arched eyebrows and questions as to my parentage.  Really?  Cuz flying back to Michigan once a week for squadron meetings is going to get expensive.  I discovered that New Englanders are weirdly insular compared to us midwesterners. 

A year and a half later, I'm the commander of that unit, rebuilding it from 3 active seniors.

Took me about 2 years to get a good corps of seniors going.  The Dunkin' Donuts across from the armory suddenly accidentally became the "place of choice" and was was quickly dubbed "the Officers's Club."  (it wasn't just seniors)  On the same street, about a 1/3 of a mile down, was a Friendly's, and it was quickly dubbed "The Officer's Club Dining Room."  That was only an occasional after-meeting venue, as Dunkin's still attracted seniors and cadets.

After a while, several of us who were members of the local Legion in town would meet at the "Officer's Club-West" for a drink after the meeting occasionally.  We'd still go to Dunkin's most of the time, but once or twice a month, maybe we needed a more "extensive debrief." The folks at the Legion loved us (led to some sponsorship discussions and opportunities), and it was a quick way for 5-6 of us to unwind and do a little after-meeting AAR.

Several of my seniors were a little standoff-ish about the "OC-W" for various reasons, but one night, my AEO (who's entire family was in CAP, including her husband, who was a CSM) said "Do you mind if I come with you to the Officer's Club?"   There were no "membership cards" to the Officer's Club, and we said so. "Sure, come on down."

6 or 7 of us are sitting there around a table, relaxed, with a couple adult beverages on the table, and my AEO says "This is nice! I don't quite know what I had thought was going on over here... "

I about fell out of my chair.

You don't need to over do it, and you don't ever want to make it seem like its mandatory or even "highly encouraged."  But if you let it build organically, from a little seed, you'll be surprised what happens.

(My squadron also did a senior-only once-a-year dinner cruise with our spouses. It was a nice way to say "Thanks!" to our wives and husbands for letting us go crazy for a couple nights a week.. that was a real crowd-pleaser, too.)

[dwb]

(no, I've only known Dan since he was but a wee cadet...)

Hey, I was a 1st Lt when we met! I only looked like a cadet (some would say I still do).

[NIN]

(no, I've only known Dan since he was but a wee cadet...)

Hey, I was a 1st Lt when we met! I only looked like a cadet (some would say I still do).

You were a cadet when you showed up on CadetStuff.... Punk.

[dwb]

I was a senior when CadetStuff launched. Punk. 

[Tim Day]

I'm not sure if this will work long term (I only have six months of experience with this concept), but here's what I've started with the squadron where I am CDS. We've set up a weekly meeting focus rotation, with an officer of primary responsibility assigned to each. Seniors meet on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Tuesdays. Meeting focus topics are Safety/AE, Professional Development, and Operations. These correspond to the cadet program focus topics, with Leadership replacing Professional Development for the cadets.

This lightens my scheduling workload because the OPR is responsible for scheduling the topic and any instructors. As seniors, we loosely interpret the topic areas. AE might be a brief from a member who has experience with military UAS, or an engineer working with the electro-magnetic spectrum. Any of our members are willing to suggest a topic or facilitate a discussion - often pilots need to get together to chair fly a recent or upcoming mission, and that's fine. As long as we have some content for the non-pilots.

Senior members have busy lives, and my belief is that creating a predictable rotation allows them to prioritize the meetings they attend.

[THRAWN]

Do some "in service professional development": have a series of "book club" discussions on management and leadership books; host a lecture series given by public safety, military, political or business leaders; host your own internal "Toastmasters" sessions....lots of fun stuff to do in addition to the normal filing of CAPF2b and updating CAPM 39-1 with the latest ABU ICLs.

A book club, not likely, as that would mean I also have to read the books.  Not that I am against reading books... I just don't have the time...  But maybe its something they could do on their own.  A lecture series is a neat idea though.  Thanks.

PS-  I like the 2A's better!!!

Don't be one of those commanders that say "I don't have the time...". Set priorities. Develop your staff and add to their professional skillsets, not only in CAP but in their personal and professional lives as well. You say you don't have time to read a book...so don't read a chapter a week, hold a discussion about it and each week have a different person lead that discussion. You'll get different points of view on the material.  Make time to add value to the experience of the volunteers that you agreed to lead.

[TheSkyHornet]

I expect Cadet Programs Officers to monitor the cadet program and mentor the cadet staff, as appropriate. I try to stay as secluded from actually participating as much as possible, and I make sure that we can correct situations that aren't going so well in a constructive manner. If I do need to complete some special training, such as ICUT, I'll arrange a private time to meet with the proper person during the meeting, shortly before the meeting, or shortly after, if possible.

It really just depends on the squadron, what equipment you have, what capabilities you have, and how much manpower there is. Some squadrons, most of the seniors sit around and talk. Some are 50-50. Others are very active during meetings. It differs from squadron to squadron.

Our CDS does a great job saying what his agenda is for the senior component, and even though I can't always participate, I have a general idea of what's going on. I may be clueless on the discussions, but it's not really my area to step into unless asked.

Don't be one of those commanders that say "I don't have the time...". Set priorities. Develop your staff and add to their professional skillsets, not only in CAP but in their personal and professional lives as well. You say you don't have time to read a book...so don't read a chapter a week, hold a discussion about it and each week have a different person lead that discussion. You'll get different points of view on the material.  Make time to add value to the experience of the volunteers that you agreed to lead.

Love, love, love this!

[Chappie]

A great resource....download the material that you feel would be of interest -- some great stuff is here:   http://aupress.maxwell.af.mil/autext.asp