other interesting tid bits from NER conf

[sarmed1]

....interesting topics of discussion.

Move to acc vs aetc is looking like fy 16; unfortunately NER LO got called away on a phone call, I'm sure he would have elaborated on this.

USAF doctrine is being re-written to include CAP as the 4th part of the total force concept: this was frequently given as lip service in the past but was made to sound as part of official inclusion..... we'll see

All former nat commanders are being invited to the 75th  anniversary nat conf for a membership q&a sort of panel... ask anything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask when they sat the big chair.....

There was no discussion about the NCO corp or any new uniform changes.....sorry

MK

[Huey Driver]

The most prominent applause was probably when Maj Gen Vazquez mentioned his talk with a big figure from AF Security Forces, and in discussion, examined the possibility of offering CAP a better option for identification (new & improved ID cards?), and better access to military bases.

My coffee hadn't kicked in yet that morning, so I might be forgetting details, but maybe sarmed1 or some of the other CAP Talk users at the conference can elaborate on this.

[capmaj]

Same game. Different players.

[Holding Pattern]

The most prominent applause was probably when Maj Gen Vazquez mentioned his talk with a big figure from AF Security Forces, and in discussion, examined the possibility of offering CAP a better option for identification (new & improved ID cards?), and better access to military bases.

My coffee hadn't kicked in yet so I might be forgetting details, maybe sarmed1 can elaborate on this.

You have our attention.

[abdsp51]

The most prominent applause was probably when Maj Gen Vazquez mentioned his talk with a big figure from AF Security Forces, and in discussion, examined the possibility of offering CAP a better option for identification (new & improved ID cards?), and better access to military bases.

My coffee hadn't kicked in yet so I might be forgetting details, maybe sarmed1 can elaborate on this.

SF doesnt determine base access the wing king does.  This has been stated many times.  Wing King doesnt want CAP on his/her yard thats all there is too it. 

[Huey Driver]

The most prominent applause was probably when Maj Gen Vazquez mentioned his talk with a big figure from AF Security Forces, and in discussion, examined the possibility of offering CAP a better option for identification (new & improved ID cards?), and better access to military bases.

My coffee hadn't kicked in yet so I might be forgetting details, maybe sarmed1 can elaborate on this.

SF doesnt determine base access the wing king does.  This has been stated many times.  Wing King doesnt want CAP on his/her yard thats all there is too it.

This would be a force-wide change though, not a local change - although I suppose that the base commander could still bar CAP from their base...

Anyway, in more or less detail, the person with whom Maj Gen Vazquez spoke about these new ID cards is way up there within Security Forces. These changes and improvements to our ID cards would, again, be recognized force-wide and not be the business of a your local base commander, and would provide CAP with better access to military facilities.

[JK657]

All former nat commanders are being invited to the 75th  anniversary nat conf for a membership q&a sort of panel... ask anything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask when they sat the big chair.....

MK

I wonder if they really mean... ALL past national commanders (TP)?

[Holding Pattern]

I'm assuming those not to be named won't be there.

[PHall]

The most prominent applause was probably when Maj Gen Vazquez mentioned his talk with a big figure from AF Security Forces, and in discussion, examined the possibility of offering CAP a better option for identification (new & improved ID cards?), and better access to military bases.

My coffee hadn't kicked in yet so I might be forgetting details, maybe sarmed1 can elaborate on this.

SF doesnt determine base access the wing king does.  This has been stated many times.  Wing King doesnt want CAP on his/her yard thats all there is too it.

This would be a force-wide change though, not a local change - although I suppose that the base commander could still bar CAP from their base...

Anyway, in more or less detail, the person with whom Maj Gen Vazquez spoke about these new ID cards is way up there within Security Forces. These changes and improvements to our ID cards would, again, be recognized force-wide and not be the business of a your local base commander, and would provide CAP with better access to military facilities.

Ain't no supposing about it. It's the Base Commander's call if CAP can enter their base. Period...

[lordmonar]

The most prominent applause was probably when Maj Gen Vazquez mentioned his talk with a big figure from AF Security Forces, and in discussion, examined the possibility of offering CAP a better option for identification (new & improved ID cards?), and better access to military bases.

My coffee hadn't kicked in yet so I might be forgetting details, maybe sarmed1 can elaborate on this.

SF doesnt determine base access the wing king does.  This has been stated many times.  Wing King doesnt want CAP on his/her yard thats all there is too it.

Yes...of course....but the current run of problems we are having is not because the base commander does not want us....but the DOD mandated security procedures do not have a CAP shaped hole in them for the CAP shaped peg that we are.

So...the Security Forces guys on the Air Staff taking an interest in us may be helpful.

Also....with us falling directly under ACC will also be helpful for fixing these kind of issues.   COMACC is a bigger player then AETC over at the Puzzle Palace.    And once COMACC hears that some silly regulation is making it hard for his newly acquired axillary force getting on to HIS bases......I think things will get fixed.   

[Mitchell 1969]

The most prominent applause was probably when Maj Gen Vazquez mentioned his talk with a big figure from AF Security Forces, and in discussion, examined the possibility of offering CAP a better option for identification (new & improved ID cards?), and better access to military bases.

My coffee hadn't kicked in yet so I might be forgetting details, maybe sarmed1 can elaborate on this.

SF doesnt determine base access the wing king does.  This has been stated many times.  Wing King doesnt want CAP on his/her yard thats all there is too it.

Yes...of course....but the current run of problems we are having is not because the base commander does not want us....but the DOD mandated security procedures do not have a CAP shaped hole in them for the CAP shaped peg that we are.

So...the Security Forces guys on the Air Staff taking an interest in us may be helpful.

Also....with us falling directly under ACC will also be helpful for fixing these kind of issues.   COMACC is a bigger player then AETC over at the Puzzle Palace.    And once COMACC hears that some silly regulation is making it hard for his newly acquired axillary force getting on to HIS bases......I think things will get fixed.

My thoughts exactly. I doubt that many/most/any wing commanders have given even 5 seconds of thought as to restricting CAP, just as they don't think about stray Marines or Public Health people. They probably leave it with their SF people, who leave it at "anything be with approved ID can come on in," barring specific unusual circumstances. Then along comes some guy from "CIVIL Air Patrol with his ID card that simply doesn't compute, which has, I believe, been carefully crafted to serve as adequate internal ID for CAP but specifically to not look official for any other purpose and....

We, WE, all know what we can and cannot buy at the exchange, under which conditions. If we get challenged at the exchange, we can ask them to look it up in the appropriate AF reg. once they do that, they have a way out, allowing them to say "Yep, he sure can buy that, says so right here."

What we need is a standard base access document that any SF desk, access post or wing commander can look  at and say "Yep, he sure can come on base, says so right here - it even has a sample ID that looks just like his..."

[Holding Pattern]

Then along comes some guy from "CIVIL Air Patrol with his ID card that simply doesn't compute, which has, I believe, been carefully crafted to serve as adequate internal ID for CAP but specifically to not look official for any other purpose and....

Indeed, at least my CAP card from the '90s actually looked and felt somewhat meaningful.

[Garibaldi]

Then along comes some guy from "CIVIL Air Patrol with his ID card that simply doesn't compute, which has, I believe, been carefully crafted to serve as adequate internal ID for CAP but specifically to not look official for any other purpose and....

Indeed, at least my CAP card from the '90s actually looked and felt somewhat meaningful.

You mean...like a superchart of various military/civilian ID's they can put in their "office" to review? That might be fun.

[abdsp51]

The bulk of access problems are members who feel they should just show up to the gate show their CAP ID and be allowed on.  There is a process in place, and the org should seek to learn that process and go with it until it's changed.  This is not that hard to do at all as long as the leg work is done.

Being allowed access to the base is a privilege, not an entitlement or a right.  And until an AFI revokes the discretion of a Wing CC to control installation entry it will stay that way.  Even if there was or is a change to the AFI the Wing CC will still be able to exercise the authority to bar access to the base for any reason. 

Our ID cards can get be recognized AF wide in the end it will ultimately come down to the Wing CC saying who can and cannot come on his/her base, regardless of who issues the ID. 

SF can help ease access since they have a good say in the process but they do not never have nor ever will have the authority to dictate who can come on an installation period end of story no matter how high up they are. 

And JerseyCadet anything dealing with an installation will always be the business of the base commander end of story.  And guess what if a Defender working the gate doesn't recognize the ID and he can't verify it you're not getting on period end of story.  And I can guarantee you arguing at the gate is not going to win you access no matter what reg you think you can through at them.  If it's not in AFI31-XXXX you're going to lose that fight.

[sarmed1]

I forgot about the base access/id card thing.... likely because that one falls more into my I'll believe it when I see it. 
As more or less mentioned above its is within the current wing king authority to grant access to his base.  10 years ago when I was at Eglin, CAP members we authorized contractor ID's, expires on your membership exp date, anyone else required an access roster.  It would be very easy for CAP-USAF to send out a memo reminding CC that its authorized.  The issue I see is that except those that meet or otherwise routinely use a mil facility everyone else don't need one....but they want one.

MK

[NIN]

Several years ago (5-6?) the Air Staff was approached by a team from CAP looking to revamp CAP's IDs to be more "DoD-like" (I swear this was something brought up here, but I could be wrong)

Oh yeah: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=499.msg5178#msg5178  and then this: http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/files/cap_id_request.pdf

ETA: Holy smokes that was 10 years ago...

[MSG Mac]

Last time I got my retired ID renewed, I asked why retirees couldn't get CAC cards. I was told because retirees were not active duty, yet if a contractor is on base for 1 day they have to get one.

[lordmonar]

Last time I got my retired ID renewed, I asked why retirees couldn't get CAC cards. I was told because retirees were not active duty, yet if a contractor is on base for 1 day they have to get one.

Not true.

Only contractors who require certain access get a CAC all others get the DBIBs.

That was one of the reasons why the DBIBs was implemented.   All those janitors, garbage men, cooks and AAFES workers needed access but not a CAC.

The problem for CAP is.....we were left out of the regulation that implemented the DBIBs.   So Auguest 2 years ago was the drop dead date for starting it up.   We are not contractors so it is putting a square peg into a round hole.  Some bases are ignoring the regulation and still allowing access via the CAPID.  But that is not really the right thing to do either.

I know that CAP-USAF is aware.  I know that the BOG is aware....as I personally talked to both the Chairman of the BoG and the commander CAP-USAF on this issue.

So...it does not surprise me that we are making headway on it.....I also expect once we move under ACC......we will get even more traction on it.

[abdsp51]

At Travis and DM this is a non issue.  At DM members have to get a pass but it is written into the base's IDP that CAP is allowed access and the passes come from DBIDS. 

There is no need for CAP to have a contractor or CAC card in general.  A simple DBIDS pass or card will suffice or better yet do the legwork talk to the bases and work on being written into the IDP. 

At the end of the day really outside of units meeting on installations or the random uniform run no need for CAP to have access round the clock to a base.

[Mitchell 1969]

The bulk of access problems are members who feel they should just show up to the gate show their CAP ID and be allowed on.  There is a process in place, and the org should seek to learn that process and go with it until it's changed.  This is not that hard to do at all as long as the leg work is done.

Being allowed access to the base is a privilege, not an entitlement or a right.  And until an AFI revokes the discretion of a Wing CC to control installation entry it will stay that way.  Even if there was or is a change to the AFI the Wing CC will still be able to exercise the authority to bar access to the base for any reason. 

Our ID cards can get be recognized AF wide in the end it will ultimately come down to the Wing CC saying who can and cannot come on his/her base, regardless of who issues the ID. 

SF can help ease access since they have a good say in the process but they do not never have nor ever will have the authority to dictate who can come on an installation period end of story no matter how high up they are. 

And JerseyCadet anything dealing with an installation will always be the business of the base commander end of story.  And guess what if a Defender working the gate doesn't recognize the ID and he can't verify it you're not getting on period end of story.  And I can guarantee you arguing at the gate is not going to win you access no matter what reg you think you can through at them.  If it's not in AFI31-XXXX you're going to lose that fight.

"There is a process in place..." Not true, I'm afraid. It would be more accurate to say "There are numerous processes in place... with people having to guess which one is in place where, then hope that it hasn't changed since last time or even since verifying it yesterday.

And, you're making the point in your last sentence. Specifically, it NEEDS to be in AFI31-XXXX for the exact reasons you stated.