The Chief's Corner

[RiverAux]

If I see one more cadet squadron reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, instead of standing at attention, saluting the flag, to the notes of To The Colors, or the National Anthem, I shall run screaming naked down the street.

The statement about reciting the Pledge caught my attention because it is something that is done regularly at most every CAP meeting I have been to.    So, I decided to go to the source and look it up in the regs.  CAPP 151 has the following:

(a) Military Formations or Ceremonies. You do not recite the Pledge of Allegiance while in military formation.
(b) Outdoors. When in military-style uniform, you stand at attention, face the flag, remain silent, and salute.
(c) Indoors. When in military-style uniform, stand at attention, face the flag, but do not salute. You may recite the pledge indoors.
(d) Civilian Dress. When in civilian clothes (indoors or outdoors), you should stand at attention, face the flag, and recite the Pledge of Allegiance while holding your right hand over your heart. (Men should remove headdress and hold with right
hand over their heart.)

So, if you're inside in a meeting you can say the pledge even if in uniform unless you're lined up on a drill floor in formation.  

[fyrfitrmedic]

Everybody go ring in the New Year and give it a rest... Geez.

Sounds like a winnah to me... off to pop the bubbly!

Enjoy - I'm on the clock until 0600. Here's hoping for an uneventful night for everybody who's workin' on New Year's Eve!

[lordmonar]

I have received some very encouraging emails from some of you, and its great to know there are stand-up people willing to help.  I have also learned I am not the first CCM.  But apparently my predecessor left no mark on the organization, I assure you, I will not go quietly into oblivion.  

Lordmonar, I preferred to email you, but its hidden.  If you keep thinking the way you do will never make E-8, let alone E-9.  In my time a Staff Sergeant could terrorize a second lieutenant at will.  The fact that you, as a Master Sergeant, seem to lack that skill is not a good reflection on your leadership, perhaps you need to re-visit some NCO courses.  If you, of all people, cannot see an NCO role in CAP, then I must conclude: although you may wear an NCOs stripes, you have probably never really been one.

Don't get me wrong...I mentor my Lt's and Capt just like everyone else.  But the leadership dynamic between active duty and CAP is vastly different.  A CAP NCO will be at a much greater disadvantage to mentor CAP officers than an active duty NCO does to AD officers.

For one the age and experience difference.  A 2 year 24 year old Lt has got to respect my 20 years of service, 41 years of life experience and my job qualification.  But a 50 year old brand new CAP Capt with 10 billion flying hours who just retired from his job is not the same.  I have absolutely no handle on him at all.  He is older than me, more qualified for the job he is doing, he would out rank me and he may be bringing an old school idea about who officers and enlisted interact.

As for a place in CAP for NCO's....again...I don't really see it.  Not with out a major change in the structure of the senior member system.  I would like you show me how it could work.

[arajca]

Lordmonar, I prefered to email you, but its hidden.  If you keep thinking the way you do will never make E-8, let alone E-9.  In my time a Staff Sergeant could terrorize a second lieutenant at will.  The fact that you, as a Master Sergeant, seem to lack that skill is not a good reflection on your leadership, perhaps you need to re-visit some NCO courses.  If you, of all people, cannot see an NCO role in CAP, then I must conclude: although you may wear an NCOs stripes, you have probably never really been one.

Chief, as you should know there is a HUGE difference in terrorizing a young 2d Lt and getting them to understand that not only are you not there to beat them into submission, you're actually there to help them grow. Terrorizing is easy. Perhaps too many 2d Lt's have met nco's with your attitude, which makes them even less likely to believe an nco is actually interested in helping them succeed. With that outlook, the foundation for the wall between CAP officers and NCO's is well and truly built.

The biggest single problem facing CAP now isn't the lack of military discipline. It's the complete lack of information from the top. Supposedly, the National Commander has a plan and a vision - at least I hope he does - that he hasn't seen fit to share with the members. All we see are disconnected changes, new uniforms, removals that appear to be politically motivated, and other such nonsense. The impression is that the CAP/CC doesn't trust the members with his vision, but yet he expects us to blindly follow his lead. If the CAP/CC has a vision, plan, goal, or destination for the organization, why doesn't he share with the members? Chief, you should know that in the absence of accurate information, rumor, speculation, and gossip run rampant and tear apart any espirit de corps that has been carefully cultivated.

ps. If a poster's email address is hidden, you can send them a pm (private message). Same thing as an email, just message is stored in their 'in box' on CAP Talk instead of their home email.

[RiverAux]

The fact that you, as a Master Sergeant, seem to lack that skill is not a good reflection on your leadership, perhaps you need to re-visit some NCO courses.  If you, of all people, cannot see an NCO role in CAP, then I must conclude: although you may wear an NCOs stripes, you have probably never really been one.

Okay, this whole thing has got to be a hoax.  If it isn't, then if the "Chief" is saying stuff like the above I'm not sure he is the person we want to develop any NCO corps because this sure isn't the way to be an example for the rest of us on how to be a leader.  At a minimum any leader knows that if you're going to critisize someone you do it in private.  Since the "Chief" came on here in a more or less offical capacity he should act like it rather than acting like the rest of the internet cowboys.  Frankly, I don't believe that if this poster was the real deal that he would have said this, so I am going to act on the assumption it is a hoax until there is some official notice. 

[RocketPropelled]

Welcome, Chief, and thanks for the efforts we've all heard about in IAWG -- looks like y'all have done a fantastic and professional job up there.  I'd love to hear more about the ops of ICAPA and such sometime.  In another thread, perhaps?

I'm going to read between the lines here and translate what I think I'm reading.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, there's definitely no shortage of that here:

The point of the NCO corps seems to be a de facto Stan/Eval team for whatever echelon it's assigned to (or represents), and perhaps an advisory council for that echelon upwards, for the rank-and-file members.

Think Super-CAC, in theory, or Super-Stan-Eval.  Or a council of Jedi Knights, if you're so inclined.  But I don't think it's going to be the exact same role of NCOs as they exist in the wild -- for that, you need a numerically gigantic source of airmen and a much smaller corps of officers than we have right now.  If there's a plan for that, let's hear it as well.  We've tabletopped those scenarios too!

I think if we get too wrapped around the axle of "Officers" vs. "NCOs," we'll be beating our heads against the wall (or each other) from here 'til Kingdom Come.

The sea change I'm not seeing articulated from any specific level of leadership (Wing, Region, or National) is the idea that CAP is on a course to be "more military" by design.  If it's a national (region, wing, whatever) goal to be "more military," whether it's to improve our image with our benevolent Air Force parent and her sister services, or to gain more credibility with stakeholder agencies, then let's hear about it.  I think many here would support those efforts (and if someone wants to make them orders, we'll gladly follow them).

As an aside, Chief, in your response to Mikey earlier -- I've very rarely seen a CAP officer, NCO, or cadet go out of their way to distance themselves from the Air Force, with the rare exception that a passerby will occasionally offer to pick up a post-meeting snack or coffee tab for our "service," believing that we're RealMilitary(tm).  But I have seen from both our CAP leaders and some rank-and-file Air Force folks a mutual "we're not with them/they're not with us" attitude.  If having a more active, involved, and credible NCO corps helps out our relationship with the Air Force, bring it on.  But if Chief McKinley starts getting heartburn over it, that's probably another story.

If we can develop, cultivate, and reap the benefits of an unpaid professional corps of NCOs at a usable level, it sounds like a great deal.  I'm curious to see what the plan is for local deployment of NCOs to units, so that their acquired knowledge and experience can be applied evenly throughout the organization (in other words, when does my unit get one? Because in the units I've been in, the retired NCOs don't want the job that the Chief is hiring for!).

If there can be NCO "advisors" on tap for local commanders and staffs to contact about procedures, protocols, and assorted leadership advice, I think it's a great thing.  My question is, if we already have NCOs in our current officer corps (wolves in sheep's clothing, to be dramatic), why aren't they already doing that job?

If there are some seriously bad apples in the NCO barrel, even in small numbers, unaccountable to any echelon other than themselves, well, I have reservations about that, for obvious reasons. 

Chief Chiafos may be the most squared-away leader in CAP, but I assure you that every NCO that could fit the membership requirements is not nearly so high-speed, regardless of what his or her stripe count is/was.  I've worked with some retired NCOs in different companies, from different services, and I think across the board, you're looking at the same varying quality of employee/coworker/supervisor that you get from any other business.  Some men I'd go to battle aside, armed only with a Swiss Army Knife and a will to win; some of them I wouldn't trust any farther than I could throw them.

I have the greatest of respect for, and would always welcome, any squared-away NCO who is focused on the organization, the mission, and the people.  I welcome their contributions, their leadership, and their experience, again, for obvious reasons.

What I don't want to see (in CAP, in my workplace, or at the local tavern, for that matter) is a bunch of folks running around with an "I'm a SERGEANT, you better LISTEN TO ME, cause you don't know ANYTHING!" attitude.  Because I fear for every hangar-flying Major out there, there's one of those guys standing by.

Professional NCOs, with the hearts of leaders, teachers, and mentors, are rare jewels indeed.  But to start with the assumption that any military NCO brings those specific skills and mindset to this organization by edict (or magic) is optimistic to the point of unworkable.

From the references in IAWG, Chief Chiafos sounds like one of the good guys, though the exchange with lordmonar seems, um, unfortunate.  It's nice to have you on board, Chief!

[BlackKnight]

Okay, this whole thing has got to be a hoax. 

I wondered that too until I did a little digging on e-services.  The Member Quals report shows there is indeed a CMSGT Robert Chiafos assigned to NHQ unit 999.  He completed Orientation and Level 1 in Nov 2004 and has completed SLS. Cadet Programs specialty track.   So the name and the NHQ assignment is legit.   
Whether the poster is the real CMSGT Chiafos, well, we have to take that on faith just like all of us on this forum who haven't met in person.

Oh, BTW - HAPPY 2007!!!!

[Al Sayre]

Just a couple of thoughts here...

I did actually receive an official notification of the Chiefs new job a couple of weeks ago, and as I said before, I'm willing to hold my own counsel until I see the whole plan and program laid out.  

One thing that concerns me with the formation of an NCO Corps that can't/doesn't hold command authority, there are many of us former NCO's ( I was an USN AT1 (E-6)) who are functioning as squadron commanders, and if a large portion of this population were to return to their stripes, who would take over the squadrons?  Most squadrons I have seen have about 25-30% of the membership (on the books) who can actually be called active, with the commander actually doing the jobs of 6-8 staff positions in addition to his/her own.  

As an NCO, I had the unfortunate duty of mentoring several new division officers in the processing of their required paperwork etc. and to be honest, a few were good people who took to the job and did it well but there were several others who would just dump it back in my lap--  "Here Petty Officer Sayre, take care of this for me".  Overall,  I'd rather gouge my own eyes out with a dull rusty spoon than have to train a new commander as an NCO again.

[flyguy06]

Okay, this whole thing has got to be a hoax. 

I wondered that too until I did a little digging on e-services.  The Member Quals report shows there is indeed a CMSGT Robert Chiafos assigned to NHQ unit 999.  He completed Orientation and Level 1 in Nov 2004 and has completed SLS. Cadet Programs specialty track.   So the name and the NHQ assignment is legit.   
Whether the poster is the real CMSGT Chiafos, well, we have to take that on faith just like all of us on this forum who haven't met in person.

Oh, BTW - HAPPY 2007!!!!

How do you look up somebody onthe CAP website? I am not sure Ilike that idea where just anybody can find my information.

[Al Sayre]

Commanders, and some of the Wing Positions who know how to use e-Services can do it, but I'm not giving out instructions...

[Lancer]

Okay, this whole thing has got to be a hoax. 

I wondered that too until I did a little digging on e-services.  The Member Quals report shows there is indeed a CMSGT Robert Chiafos assigned to NHQ unit 999.  He completed Orientation and Level 1 in Nov 2004 and has completed SLS. Cadet Programs specialty track.   So the name and the NHQ assignment is legit.   
Whether the poster is the real CMSGT Chiafos, well, we have to take that on faith just like all of us on this forum who haven't met in person.

Oh, BTW - HAPPY 2007!!!!

How do you look up somebody onthe CAP website? I am not sure Ilike that idea where just anybody can find my information.

This is as close as we'll get...

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_110403151547.pdf

He's listed on page 30.

Command Chief Master Sergeant
CMSGT Robert D. Chiafos, CAP
180 South 19th St.
Marion, IA 52302
Home Phone: 319-377-0638
E-mail: afchief@earthlink.net

[flyguy06]

ok, sorry to change the subject for a minut, but I have to interject. I was one of those 2LT's once upon a time ago and ws mentored by many NCO's. Yes, I was kicked in the pants a few times but it was good for me. s long as junior officers listen to the guidence of good NCO's he wil grow into a good leader.

Now back to the topic at hand

[Al Sayre]

Well the info in mlcurtis69's post jibes with the listed profile, so I'll consider the poster genuine until proven different.

[Al Sayre]

(A)s long as junior officers listen...

and therein lies the rub...

[flyguy06]

Dont steretype officers. Its not nice. I know a lot of crappy NCO's as well

[flyguy06]

Okay, this whole thing has got to be a hoax. 

I wondered that too until I did a little digging on e-services.  The Member Quals report shows there is indeed a CMSGT Robert Chiafos assigned to NHQ unit 999.  He completed Orientation and Level 1 in Nov 2004 and has completed SLS. Cadet Programs specialty track.   So the name and the NHQ assignment is legit.   
Whether the poster is the real CMSGT Chiafos, well, we have to take that on faith just like all of us on this forum who haven't met in person.

Oh, BTW - HAPPY 2007!!!!

How do you look up somebody onthe CAP website? I am not sure Ilike that idea where just anybody can find my information.

This is as close as we'll get...

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_110403151547.pdf

He's listed on page 30.

Command Chief Master Sergeant
CMSGT Robert D. Chiafos, CAP
180 South 19th St.
Marion, IA 52302
Home Phone: 319-377-0638
E-mail: afchief@earthlink.net

Ok, I just went to that llink and I have a clearer understanding now. He's part of the advisory committee. OK. no big deal. I was thinking he was going to be partof the Command Group like in the USAF. He's on the advisory group along withthe National Safety Officer,aE Advisor CAdet Program advisor  EEO Officer and other people you never hear about

[Al Sayre]

I'm not stereotyping, just relating my personal experience.  As I said before, some of them were genuinely good Officers who really wanted to learn how to do the job and do it well.  These folks got a first class lesson in how the system works and 101 ways to get impossible things done quickly (amazing how co-operative folks are when you give them the occasional can of coffee or bottle of adult beverage).  

Unfortunately, there were also those who saw the job as a make-work stepping stone and figured if an NCO can mentor them on how to do it, it couldn't be that hard and why not just make the NCO do the job.  I guess they never gave much thought to what could happen to their careers if the NCO screwed up either acidentally or on purpose.

[BlackKnight]

...He's on the advisory group along with the National Safety Officer, AE Advisor Cadet Program advisor  EEO Officer and other people you never hear about .

Nobody has a way with words the way Flyguy does.      

[Eclipse]

Another question.

Which side of the street are we walking on here?

One day we're repainting the planes, covering the seals, redoing the MAJCOM, and discussing how PCA doesn't apply because "we aren't the military"

And the next we are appointing people with the intention of "remiliatarizing" the organization and forging closer ties to the USAF.

“Schizophrenia beats dining alone.”

[Eclipse]

Lordmonar, I prefered to email you, but its hidden.  If you keep thinking the way you do will never make E-8, let alone E-9.  In my time a Staff Sergeant could terrorize a second lieutenant at will.  The fact that you, as a Master Sergeant, seem to lack that skill is not a good reflection on your leadership, perhaps you need to re-visit some NCO courses.  If you, of all people, cannot see an NCO role in CAP, then I must conclude: although you may wear an NCOs stripes, you have probably never really been one.

"...terrorize a second lieutenant at will...?"

Chief, if this is your plan and attitude, well good luck with that.