CAP Talk

General Discussion => The Lobby => Topic started by: MidwaySix on August 24, 2007, 03:56:17 AM

Title: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: MidwaySix on August 24, 2007, 03:56:17 AM
It seems to me, that this year's PAO Academy was the real kickoff for the new branding initiative for the CAP...

When one of my high speed new members asked me about business cards, it got me thinking...

1. My current business cards are now out of date.
2. Shouldn't there be a true national standard for a CAP business card?

One of the objective of the branding initiative is:

Establish brand synergy among internal and external CAP audiences so that every
communication piece speaks with one voice by Spring 2008.


So one of the basic components of any identity package (as we say in the biz, and yes people used to pay me to design corporate identity materials) are the business cards.

Anyone particularly fond of / proud of their CAP business card design? Care to share?


If anyone who attended said PAO Academy would like to chime in, were business cards and stationary talked about?

If there isn't a standard in development... then I'd like to humbly suggest that we use this forum to collaborate and generate one together.

Semper Vi,

Midway Six
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Lancer on August 24, 2007, 04:00:56 AM
Amen MS... back in the days of CAPmart you could order a CAP business card...so everyone was on the same page.

NHQ's 'buying power' could again get us a deal on cards in small quantities, and even if they don't, find a design the majority likes, stick with it and put the Avery template on e-services.

I'm a big fan of a 'united image'. Let's do it.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: afgeo4 on August 24, 2007, 02:22:36 PM
On the same note, can we have a single format graphic letterhead design? How did the PAO academy tackle the fact that almost every unit in the organization has a different website? The internet is the single most important repesentation of CAP out there. More people check the internet for information about CAP than any other source. If we don't standardize that, then why bother doing business cards?
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: floridacyclist on August 24, 2007, 02:31:27 PM
Most military and gov't websites haven't even made it that far
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Major Carrales on August 24, 2007, 02:35:33 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on August 24, 2007, 02:22:36 PM
On the same note, can we have a single format graphic letterhead design? How did the PAO academy tackle the fact that almost every unit in the organization has a different website? The internet is the single most important repesentation of CAP out there. More people check the internet for information about CAP than any other source. If we don't standardize that, then why bother doing business cards?

There was a good presentation on WEBSITES and e-commerce done by the Bloomberg People.  My suggestion on the evaluation was to extend that into its own multiday workshop.

By standardization, what do you mean?  Seen one CAP website, seen them all? 
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: flyguy06 on August 24, 2007, 02:46:04 PM
I wouldnt want to standardize websites. Every Squadron is differant and unique and should express that. My Squadron is an iner city squadron and we market to a certain sect of society. SO, we would need that individuality to market our unit to our audiance.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: jimmydeanno on August 24, 2007, 02:59:29 PM
This is my current business card design.  My initial design after review of my collegues and friends was recieved as being too busy and cluttered, so with some advice, I simplified.  This is what I came up with.

For an airshow recently, I put some quick facts about CAP on the back with the same "maroon and blue outline"

Looking at the template attached, the maroon on the bottom extends to the edge of the card, leaving a white edge outside the two lines going around.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Lancer on August 24, 2007, 03:02:01 PM
As I had pointed out in a thread back in April (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=220.msg32639#msg32639 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=220.msg32639#msg32639)), we need to have a united image, especially online.

To this day I have not received any feedback from anyone at NHQ regarding my ideas. I guess I'll have to revisit this and attempt to enlighten folks again.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: afgeo4 on August 24, 2007, 03:05:49 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on August 24, 2007, 02:46:04 PM
I wouldnt want to standardize websites. Every Squadron is differant and unique and should express that. My Squadron is an iner city squadron and we market to a certain sect of society. SO, we would need that individuality to market our unit to our audiance.
Different and unique... I really hope you're talking about the overall feel and culture of the unit because everything else is supposed to be exactly the same. Websites aren't there to portray overall feelings. They're there to inform about the objective things. Units should have news, photos, events, directions, important links, and staff sections that can be filled with whatever info they want, but the design and look should be standardized, so that people expect the same product and service from one unit as they do from another. Believe it or not, but we do have customers. They can be potential cadets or their parents, aviators, educators, potential officer members, law enforcement, disaster management organizations, etc. Our customers knowing that what you offer to them in terms of services is going to be as good as what another unit offered reassures them and makes them come back to us with misssions.

That's marketing and that's public affairs.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Walkman on August 24, 2007, 04:39:46 PM
Speaking of printing discounts, here's a freebie tip from an old salt in the biz:
Go to a local printer and ask about adding biz cards to the un-used margins on another job's sheet. When printers set up their plates, there is usually some wasted space, especially if the job is not an 8.5x11 size. Many printers are willing to add stuff into those margins for free, especially for non-profits. It doesn't cost them any bit extra & it reduces waste.  :D

As a new PAO (but old ad guy) I'm making the visual branding of our squadron a top priority. But branding goes beyond the visual, it's every way your customers come in contact with you. Having a great looking website won't get your any further if it poorly written or has crappy content. Handing out a biz card when you uniform is sloppy sends a message.

Any PAOs that aren't normally part of the ad/branding biz that want some great insights & ideas, check out the following:
Guerrilla Marketing books (usually available in the library) by Jay Levinson
Your Marketing Sucks by Mark Stevens, (quick read)
Seth Godin's blog: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/ lots of great insights in the ideas and principals of great marketing and branding.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Stonewall on August 25, 2007, 02:22:33 AM
I actually have a decent Word template for business cards that I've been using for years.  Uses the standard CAP seal, not the MAJCOM one and is fairly easy.

It's on my computer at home so I can upload it as an attachment on Sunday or Monday.

I actually got it from a cadet about 9 years ago.  It's very basic, multi-colored and very simple yet professional.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: smgilbert101 on August 25, 2007, 04:39:55 AM
OK, so where's the beef?  The only thing that I've heard is "More than meets the sky".  Until that one is tested in court, I'll leave it off of my business cards.  And yes, I believe that CAP, Inc. will be sued for such a blatant rip-off of the Transformers "more than meets the eye" slogan which I am sure is legally protected.  And yes, the entertainment industry is extremely letigious.

Now, in terms of "where's the beef?"  My single biggest obstacle to recruiting is that nobody knows who we are!  The "missions for America" slogan at least gives me an entry point into explaining our core missions.  "More than meets the sky" returns smirks.

Is there going to be some kind of coordinated effort the introduce CAP to the general public?  PSA, etc?
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: floridacyclist on August 25, 2007, 10:20:38 AM
I don't know about "Every website should be the same except for the actual content".  I understand the thought that each unit's market is different and each unit is different and marketing should be handled differently. Someone made the remark that each unit should be the same and that is just wrong! Some units are ES-centric while others don't even know what a compass is. Some have cadets and some don't. Some are in inner-city markets and some have Merle Haggard on the hold music.

Yes, I do think there should be standards as to what is included. Perhaps some sort of "website review board" to review and approve a unit's website. Maybe even some pre-made templates for those units that don't have any web-savvy folk on-board. These would be good. Forcing each McSquadron to pretend they're identical to the next McSquadron isn't.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: JayT on August 25, 2007, 03:18:13 PM
No offense to the PAO academy, but it seems that its gonna end up to PAing what Hawk Mountain is to the ES program. A bunch of decent ideas that are never gonna make it to the squadron level much.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Major Carrales on August 25, 2007, 03:53:49 PM
Quote from: JThemann on August 25, 2007, 03:18:13 PM
No offense to the PAO academy, but it seems that its gonna end up to PAing what Hawk Mountain is to the ES program. A bunch of decent ideas that are never gonna make it to the squadron level much.

That will be up to the Commander of the units.  The PAO Academy sent the message directly to the PAOs of units...albiet a small number.  Everyone who was at the PAO Academy knows what they have to do...it is up to the units to implement it in their own community.

One idea that was run throughout is that all CAP IS LOCAL, PAOs need to establish relationships with local media and agencies.  The National Efforts simply provide to ammunition for that.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: jimmydeanno on August 25, 2007, 04:02:18 PM
I think this thread is getting off track and becoming a public affairs/media relations thread rather than a branding thread.

Branding deals with the visual things you do for your squadron.  Think of a commercial, many of which (if branded correctly) let you know what company is sponsoring the commercial without needing to even put the company name in it.  They use logos or specific music or photography methods, etc to give a consistent feel to their "product or service."

So, as the original poster indicated, what are we doing in our local squadrons to "brand" them.

Does your squadron have the same feel on things like:

1) Business Cards
2) Letterhead
3) Squadron Pamphlets or Documents
4) Banners
5) Advertisements

or does everyone do what they think is best and create their own version.  Do two business cards from two separate members look like their members of two different organizations (i.e. command patch vs. CAP Emblem vs. Oragami AF Logo cradling CAP Seal), do they have consistent color schemes, etc.

If your squadron does have a 'branding' initiative in place, would you care to share it?  Place your color schemes, templates, etc here - so people can take good ideas and use them...
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: JayT on August 25, 2007, 04:03:30 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 25, 2007, 03:53:49 PM
Quote from: JThemann on August 25, 2007, 03:18:13 PM
No offense to the PAO academy, but it seems that its gonna end up to PAing what Hawk Mountain is to the ES program. A bunch of decent ideas that are never gonna make it to the squadron level much.

That will be up to the Commander of the units.  The PAO Academy sent the message directly to the PAOs of units...albiet a small number.  Everyone who was at the PAO Academy knows what they have to do...it is up to the units to implement it in their own community.

One idea that was run throughout is that all CAP IS LOCAL, PAOs need to establish relationships with local media and agencies.  The National Efforts simply provide to ammunition for that.

Well, I think one of the changes we need to make to CAP is to turn ourselves into 'Americas Hometown Air Force.' We need to be a local resource, not a national resource.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Major Carrales on August 25, 2007, 04:07:00 PM
Quote from: JThemann on August 25, 2007, 04:03:30 PM

Well, I think one of the changes we need to make to CAP is to turn ourselves into 'Americas Hometown Air Force.' We need to be a local resource, not a national resource.

Centralization is key to organizing the efforts, but only in providing the "brand."  Local units scarely have enough funds to hangar aircraft, purchase CADET items, and other expenses (lots of which are member generated/donated), much less generating posters and other media.  Local units need to minimize the expenses for PAO, and supplement it with "leg work." Let national provide those materials, let us provide the manpower.

I got a package in the mail today from national with materials to bolster cadet recruiting.  It helps.

It needs to be the local unit, like lets say mine, that goes out and meets with Chambers of Commerce, local businesses and local agencies.  That was a key part of the "marketing" segment.  Get out there and represent the WHOLE of CAP with the best your unti has to offer.

Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: JayT on August 25, 2007, 04:15:16 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 25, 2007, 04:07:00 PM
Quote from: JThemann on August 25, 2007, 04:03:30 PM

Well, I think one of the changes we need to make to CAP is to turn ourselves into 'Americas Hometown Air Force.' We need to be a local resource, not a national resource.

Centralization is key to organizing the efforts, but only in providing the "brand."  Local units scarely have enough funds to hangar aircraft, purchase CADET items, and other expenses (lots of which are member generated/donated)

It needs to be the local unit, like lets say mine, that goes out and meets with Chambers of Commerce, local businesses and local agencies.  That was a key part of the "marketing" segment.  Get out there and represent the WHOLE of CAP with the best your unti has to offer.




Well, what I'm talking about is that we always love to throw out 'We do ninty percent of the SAR for the US."

What does that mean to the local Fire Chiefs Concil? Or the local Town Supervisor? Or the local police force?

In my area, if a plane crashes, it's going down in someones backyard. So what else can we do for the community? Can we use our planes to spot for forrest fires? Can we use our cadets for hurricane preparedness? How do we train our people for this then?

Or, is our ES mission completely pointless in some areas?
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Major Carrales on August 25, 2007, 04:20:24 PM
Quote from: JThemann on August 25, 2007, 04:15:16 PM

Well, what I'm talking about is that we always love to throw out 'We do ninty percent of the SAR for the US."

What does that mean to the local Fire Chiefs Concil? Or the local Town Supervisor? Or the local police force?

In my area, if a plane crashes, it's going down in someones backyard. So what else can we do for the community? Can we use our planes to spot for forrest fires? Can we use our cadets for hurricane preparedness? How do we train our people for this then?

Or, is our ES mission completely pointless in some areas?

The point it that we are a tool, to be used as a "force mutliplier" for all such organizations.  ES, as you point out is only part of the greater function of CAP, but it is also the one that contributes the most "flash."  Its like the Minutemen of the Revolution, citizen airmen reay to serve.  That is a message that everyone can get behind...it sells itself as patriotic and community service oriented.

A photo caption of a CAP aircrew planning a mission on the wing, or of a CAP aircraft taking off with mission planning in teh forground is gonna turn a lot of heads.

Cadet Program is another powerful image, youth in the study of leadership and service of their communit.  If you have CADET ES, that is even more significant.

There really is much more to CAP...now let's get the word out there. 
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Walkman on August 25, 2007, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: smgilbert101 on August 25, 2007, 04:39:55 AM
OK, so where's the beef?  The only thing that I've heard is "More than meets the sky".  Until that one is tested in court, I'll leave it off of my business cards.  And yes, I believe that CAP, Inc. will be sued for such a blatant rip-off of the Transformers "more than meets the eye" slogan which I am sure is legally protected.  And yes, the entertainment industry is extremely letigious.

Now, in terms of "where's the beef?"  My single biggest obstacle to recruiting is that nobody knows who we are!  The "missions for America" slogan at least gives me an entry point into explaining our core missions.  "More than meets the sky" returns smirks.

Is there going to be some kind of coordinated effort the introduce CAP to the general public?  PSA, etc?

While I agree that the new tag is a bit *ahem* legally dubious, unless NHQ is going to run a national campaign with it similar in scope to the Army's work, Joe Local isn't going to have it on his brain. We see way too many media messages each day and most people have pretty strong filters up. A tagline is only one part of a strong brand, and the only way to make it effective is to pound it into the consumers head like a jackhammer.

Quote from: Major Carrales on August 25, 2007, 03:53:49 PM
One idea that was run throughout is that all CAP IS LOCAL, PAOs need to establish relationships with local media and agencies.  The National Efforts simply provide to ammunition for that.

I absolutely agree. NHQ can run a campaign, but getting local recognition by a good POA will generate the kind of buzz that makes a difference. Think about web memes. Some guy makes a goofy youtube video and then a billion teens send it to their pals. Whether its WOM from a new Cadet/SM telling relatives/pals or a news article that prompts a city council woman to come to an open house, going "viral" (I hate that buzzword) locally becomes an exponential increase in national awareness.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Walkman on August 25, 2007, 04:39:19 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on August 25, 2007, 04:02:18 PM
I think this thread is getting off track and becoming a public affairs/media relations thread rather than a branding thread.

Branding deals with the visual things you do for your squadron.  Think of a commercial, many of which (if branded correctly) let you know what company is sponsoring the commercial without needing to even put the company name in it.  They use logos or specific music or photography methods, etc to give a consistent feel to their "product or service."


Not to quibble, but IMO, the visual is only part of the brand. In many cases, it's the most obvious, though. And at the level of a small org or business, many times it's all they can get.

As part of that and getting back to the original idea of branding the local unit, think about the writing. If you are a cadet oriented, Drill/Color Guard focused unit, the voice in your writing needs to be much different than a Senior squadron that flies a lot of SAR. That's part of your brand.

Even uniform wear is part of the brand. We wear BDUs more often than the Blues as we're an outdoor/PT/GT focused group. The BDUs project a different image in the mind of a visitor than the Blues do.

Sorry about soapboxing. I started my own ad agency because I really get into this stuff, and part of my business model is teaching small & medium sized business how they can brand themselves like the "big boys". I tend to get chatty. Sorry.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: jimmydeanno on August 25, 2007, 04:46:59 PM
Oh, I completely agree, thanks for "filling in the blanks."  My concern was more about the "get better relationship with the media" aspect.  To me, it is putting the cart before the horse.

You can't produce a commercial and then decide how it should be branded, you need to create your branding plan - then produce the commercial...
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Walkman on August 25, 2007, 04:53:11 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on August 25, 2007, 04:46:59 PM
Oh, I completely agree, thanks for "filling in the blanks."  My concern was more about the "get better relationship with the media" aspect.  To me, it is putting the cart before the horse.

You can't produce a commercial and then decide how it should be branded, you need to create your branding plan - then produce the commercial...

Absolutely! One of the main practices of branding is to develop 4 or 5 main message points that define who/what you are. Then you pound those point into every bit of communication you have. So in relation to local CAP units, what is your unit about? Really define it, then make sure that those main points are covered in in every bit of PA you do.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: afgeo4 on August 27, 2007, 06:13:59 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 25, 2007, 04:20:24 PM
Quote from: JThemann on August 25, 2007, 04:15:16 PM

Well, what I'm talking about is that we always love to throw out 'We do ninty percent of the SAR for the US."

What does that mean to the local Fire Chiefs Concil? Or the local Town Supervisor? Or the local police force?

In my area, if a plane crashes, it's going down in someones backyard. So what else can we do for the community? Can we use our planes to spot for forrest fires? Can we use our cadets for hurricane preparedness? How do we train our people for this then?

Or, is our ES mission completely pointless in some areas?

The point it that we are a tool, to be used as a "force mutliplier" for all such organizations.  ES, as you point out is only part of the greater function of CAP, but it is also the one that contributes the most "flash."  Its like the Minutemen of the Revolution, citizen airmen reay to serve.  That is a message that everyone can get behind...it sells itself as patriotic and community service oriented.

A photo caption of a CAP aircrew planning a mission on the wing, or of a CAP aircraft taking off with mission planning in teh forground is gonna turn a lot of heads.

Cadet Program is another powerful image, youth in the study of leadership and service of their communit.  If you have CADET ES, that is even more significant.

There really is much more to CAP...now let's get the word out there. 

It's completely pointless in large urban areas. I know that here, in NYC we don't have an ES program because we don't have ES work. Any SAR tasking goes out to the city Police or Fire departments, both of which have extremely well organized, trained, and equipped rescue forces. Add to that the many other police departments and agencies which all operate emergency services units (Campus Police, MTA Police, Port Authority Police, etc) and you have absolutely no need or desire for an organization like CAP.

NYC is known for its Cadet program though. Our team went on to National Competition this past year and our cadets do very well at encampments and national activities.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: jimmydeanno on August 27, 2007, 06:20:02 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on August 27, 2007, 06:13:59 PM
Our team went on to National Competition this past year

Sorry, slightly off-topic (actually, really off topic), I thought the NH team represented NER this year at National?
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: afgeo4 on August 27, 2007, 06:34:06 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on August 27, 2007, 06:20:02 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on August 27, 2007, 06:13:59 PM
Our team went on to National Competition this past year

Sorry, slightly off-topic (actually, really off topic), I thought the NH team represented NER this year at National?
Depends on the team lol. I was talking Color Guard. I think you were talking Drill Team.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: jimmydeanno on August 27, 2007, 06:40:16 PM
Yep, sure was - thanks
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: RiverAux on August 28, 2007, 04:07:27 AM
Quote from: smgilbert101 on August 25, 2007, 04:39:55 AM
OK, so where's the beef? 

You know Wendy's is going to come after you now!
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: JayT on August 29, 2007, 08:47:41 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on August 27, 2007, 06:13:59 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on August 25, 2007, 04:20:24 PM
Quote from: JThemann on August 25, 2007, 04:15:16 PM

Well, what I'm talking about is that we always love to throw out 'We do ninty percent of the SAR for the US."

What does that mean to the local Fire Chiefs Concil? Or the local Town Supervisor? Or the local police force?

In my area, if a plane crashes, it's going down in someones backyard. So what else can we do for the community? Can we use our planes to spot for forrest fires? Can we use our cadets for hurricane preparedness? How do we train our people for this then?

Or, is our ES mission completely pointless in some areas?

The point it that we are a tool, to be used as a "force mutliplier" for all such organizations.  ES, as you point out is only part of the greater function of CAP, but it is also the one that contributes the most "flash."  Its like the Minutemen of the Revolution, citizen airmen reay to serve.  That is a message that everyone can get behind...it sells itself as patriotic and community service oriented.

A photo caption of a CAP aircrew planning a mission on the wing, or of a CAP aircraft taking off with mission planning in teh forground is gonna turn a lot of heads.

Cadet Program is another powerful image, youth in the study of leadership and service of their communit.  If you have CADET ES, that is even more significant.

There really is much more to CAP...now let's get the word out there. 

It's completely pointless in large urban areas. I know that here, in NYC we don't have an ES program because we don't have ES work. Any SAR tasking goes out to the city Police or Fire departments, both of which have extremely well organized, trained, and equipped rescue forces. Add to that the many other police departments and agencies which all operate emergency services units (Campus Police, MTA Police, Port Authority Police, etc) and you have absolutely no need or desire for an organization like CAP.

NYC is known for its Cadet program though. Our team went on to National Competition this past year and our cadets do very well at encampments and national activities.

Isn't it true your old Group Commander made cadets point there fingers down at the position of attension?

We sometimes get NYC Group cadets at our SAREXs, and I'm always impressed.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: Major Carrales on August 30, 2007, 02:06:10 AM
Quote from: afgeo4 on August 27, 2007, 06:13:59 PM
It's completely pointless in large urban areas. I know that here, in NYC we don't have an ES program because we don't have ES work. Any SAR tasking goes out to the city Police or Fire departments, both of which have extremely well organized, trained, and equipped rescue forces. Add to that the many other police departments and agencies which all operate emergency services units (Campus Police, MTA Police, Port Authority Police, etc) and you have absolutely no need or desire for an organization like CAP.

NYC is known for its Cadet program though. Our team went on to National Competition this past year and our cadets do very well at encampments and national activities.

You are both right and wrong. 

We are one CAP, if I live in NYC or Los Angeles proper I am still a CAP officer...if I want to be ES, I should not be limited by the fact that "we are known for our cadet program" anymore than an strong ES area should not service the cadets.

Col Greenhut boasts that we can put an air platform over a target within two hours, means all of us.  He should also be able to bost that we have a CAP Cadet Program in every zone, county or Metropolitan area.

The WHOLE CAP approach is the ideal.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: MidwaySix on August 30, 2007, 02:47:32 AM
Quote from: afgeo4 on August 27, 2007, 06:13:59 PM
It's completely pointless in large urban areas. I know that here, in NYC we don't have an ES program because we don't have ES work. Any SAR tasking goes out to the city Police or Fire departments, both of which have extremely well organized, trained, and equipped rescue forces. Add to that the many other police departments and agencies which all operate emergency services units (Campus Police, MTA Police, Port Authority Police, etc) and you have absolutely no need or desire for an organization like CAP.

George,

I can't disagree with you more.

My unit is based at a major metropolitan airport, in one of the largest cities in America.


Just because you think CAP can't be part of the Team in your neighborhood and beyond, doesn't make it so.


"Total Force" is not a concept dependent on your ZIP code.

Respectfully,

Midway Six

Ground Team Leader
(newly minted) Mission Pilot
Lives 6 blocks from the tallest structure/target in the Western Hemisphere.
Always Vigilant - Never Boring. http://capblog.typepad.com (http://capblog.typepad.com)

P.S. Note: I just started this thread so that I could get some good ideas for some decent looking business cards.
Title: Re: Branding Your Unit in a Post PAO Academy World
Post by: afgeo4 on August 30, 2007, 03:03:45 PM
There's a difference between members being trained to do ES and having an ES program.

NYC Group has ES trained members for aircrew, udf, ground team, mission base, etc. We just don't have need for all that within the city. Most of our calls come from Long Island and or Westchester/Putnam Counties of New York. Both, Long Island and Southeast groups now have great ES programs, so they very rarely call for our help. There are always very occasional calls for help from NJ or PA and we answer them, but they're rare.

What I'm saying is there really isn't much work in NYC (I don't know how other cities work) for SAR and although there's always work in DR, the jobs needed here are less traditional. The primary need is in overflights for damage assessment, which we're fully trained for, shelter management, and community training/outreach a la CERT. The last two have been a huge training problem since neither Red Cross or CERT want to provide training for our members at low cost or without membership.

In terms of flying for the City of New York... NYPD Aviation does all the work. Their fleet is very competent and operates very new aircraft. There's no need for us while they exist. There's also now talk of FDNY having a helicopter. Add to that existing air assets of the Port Authority Police Dept and various other agencies in the area...

There just isn't need for us here. There are no GA airports in NYC. The 2 airports we do have rarely land GA aircraft. Because of that we don't operate any aircraft out of our group. Add to that the fact that an air crash in NYC would be seen by hundreds if not thousands of people and would not require search and that rescue is done by the city...