Requirements for Intial Flight Training of Cadets

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

This question came up in another thread and I got some pretty good answers, but in double checking 60-1, I am still not sure.   So rather than hijack the other thread I will restate my question here.

Re: Do Airplanes belong to Squadrons
« Reply #12 on: Today at 09:16:12 AM »   

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Quote from: flyguy06 on Today at 08:05:08 AM

"I have never heard a rule that said a cadet has to have completed a solo encampment or have soloed before we can give them flight instruction. I know a few cadets that started taking flight lessons from CAP from the jump"
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This is what 60-1 says: 

"3-2. Pilot Qualifications.
a. CAP Cadet Pre-Solo Pilot. The following basic requirements must be met to be qualified as a CAP cadet pre-solo pilot. This qualification may only be earned at an organized wing or higher-level flight encampment/academy.
(1) Be an active CAP member at least 16 years of age (for balloon or glider be age 14 or older).
(2) Have received the required instruction from a CAP certificated flight instructor/-glider (CFI/CFIG), at a wing level or higher flight encampment/academy and have a written record documenting instruction of all items of FAR 61.87, in the appropriate aircraft.
(3) Complete a pre-solo qualification flight as described in paragraph 1-6."

I originally interpreted that to mean that a squadron could not give a cadet flight training until they had either qualified as a pre-solo pilot at a National or Wing Flight Academy, or had already soloed elsewhere and gotten their CAP Solo rating.

I was told by a number of members that this was only talking about the award of the pre-solo or solo wings.   I thought that was probably a correct interpretation.
However, being a lawyer and Squadron Legal Officer, I decided I should take another look at 60-1.   What I found makes me think my original interpretation may be the correct one. 

"3-1. General. This chapter prescribes aircrew qualifications and requirements to fly CAP aircraft.
3-2. Pilot Qualifications.
a. CAP Cadet Pre-Solo Pilot. The following basic requirements must be met to be qualified as a CAP cadet pre-solo pilot. This qualification may only be earned at an organized wing or higher-level flight encampment/academy"

The parts written in bold and underlined call these "qualifications and requirements to fly a CAP aircraft"  That does not seem to be talking about a mere award of wings.   I hate to beat a dead horse, but I would like to know for sure before I give out false information to our cadets.   

[Chappy]

CAPR 60-1 that you are quoting has to do with a LABEL.  You are not a cap pilot until you have accomplished the requirements stated but you are still a pilot.

  You are not a pre-solo pilot (and have pre-solo wings) unless you have accomplished the requirements.  It doesn't preclude a cadet from receiving instruction in a cap air craft with a cap instructor other than at a flight academy.  We don't have enough flight academies to accomodate every one that wants to fly.  Nor do all cadets have the money for 10 hours of flight at one time in one week.

[SJFedor]

Short definition of CAP Cadet Pre-Solo Pilot: You went to a NFA or Wing Flight Encampment, did some ground instruction, flew around some, but didn't meet the requirements to actually solo. They give you the pre-solo wings and designation, which essentially means you did everything by yourself, taxi, takeoff, landing, all of it, but you still had a CFI on board and at the controls, just in case. The reason they say it can only be earned at a NFA or Wing FE is because they don't want every cadet in CAP to be wearing pre-solo wings because they can work the controls under supervision. Otherwise, just about every cadet who has completed their o-flights should be elligible for them (except for the whole critical phases of flight rule) They're trying to make it quasi-special and exclusive.

60-1 definies pre-solo as the following:

Pre-Solo Qualification Flight. A flight, performed at a CAP wing level or higher flight encampment/academy, during which the CAP student pilot demonstrates, to an onboard CAP certificated flight instructor (CFI), that he/she has the ability to fly the aircraft without assistance from the onboard CAP CFI. This flight does not require an FAA endorsement and does not fulfill FAA requirements for solo flight, however the prerequisite for a pre-solo qualification is completion of all requirements in the appropriate portion of FAR 61.87.

The part of the regulation that REALLY pertains to the question you're asking is found in section 3.6(d)

d. CAP cadets up to 21 years of age may receive flight instruction from a CAP flight instructor leading to an airman certificate or rating, including authorized cadet solo flights and accomplishment of required practical test.

That's really about it. There's the new entry about cadets being allowed to use high performance aircraft that I posted in the previous thread, but 3.6(d) is the only other rule that pertains to cadet training.

The pre-solo is more of an badge then a true qualification. You can find just a little bit more about it in CAPR 35-3, AERONAUTICAL RATINGS, EMERGENCY SERVICES PATCH AND BADGES, AND GROUND TEAM BADGES

Hope this answered your questions!

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

Thanks again.  I understood the first time you tried to explain it to me.  I just got hung up on the wording "3-1. General. This chapter prescribes aircrew qualifications and requirements to fly CAP aircraft."  and then in the next paragraph it says "3-2. Pilot Qualifications.
a. CAP Cadet Pre-Solo Pilot. The following basic requirements must be met to be qualified as a CAP cadet pre-solo pilot. This qualification may only be earned at an organized wing or higher-level flight encampment/academy"

If as a lawyer I were interpreting a contract, I would look at the words qualification and requirements and see they were used in both 3.1 and 3.2. and that it refers to who is eligible to Fly CAP Aircraft.That being the case, I would assume they related to each other and meant what they said.   

I now know after hearing from those of you who were kind enough to respond to me that it seems to be common knowledge that the words in 3.2 (a) are referring to a rating or an award of wings.   However, thats not what is said in the body of the text.   Thus my concern and misunderstanding. 

I believe they are in the process of re-writting 60-1 again.   This would be an area that could use some clarification.

[SJFedor]

Lawyers definitely didn't write 60-1, or most of our other regulations.

No worries, glad we could help out!

[RiverAux]

Lawyers definitely didn't write 60-1, or most of our other regulations.

Thank god.  Thats about the only thing that could have ended up making them even worse!  BTW, this isn't general anti-lawyer bias, but the experience of a fellow who works with lawyers to help write regulations all the time....