It's finally here!

[ranviper]

I will say I'm amazed at how much arguing, debate, frustration, and disappointment can come from a simple disagreement on uniforms. I mean, did y'all join CAP to wear BDU's and boots or to learn about cool stuff like aerospace, and get the opportunity to fly? I joined because I love flying. They want me to wear neon pink, whatever, I get to fly, so I could care less. They are working diligently to make everyone happy, including the USAF, whose gracious enough to let anyone outside of their weight standards (+10%) wear a version of their uniform. Be happy and serve your community!

[Eclipse]

^ It shows what happens when a baseline, important, but ultimately simple issue is subject to politics, compromise, and fiefdoms.

Everyone suffers and the purpose is self-defeated.

[Private Investigator]

My uniform ideas would probably make people crazy.

Let's hear them!

Seconded.

BTW, what are your thoughts on khaki? 

I like khaki  :clap:

[Panache]

Last time I checked a uniform had it's purpose and flashy wasn't one of them.  Not every uniform needs a hat and if the membership has an issue with the uniform there is the process to recommend changes.  So far the only folks I have heard orseen have an issue with the G/W are those who choose to not abide by H/W and grooming and self defeat themselves when it comes to it.  And IMO the only reason I have heard for change is just to change.

So... the only folks you've heard or seen who have an issue with the G/Ws are those who actually wear the G/Ws?



Thank you for playing.  Please come again.

[Eclipse]

One only needs to look to the Apple Corps, Microsoft Militia, Target SRS (Special Retail Services), Best Buy Brigade, or the Walmart World Legion to see
the respect khaki commands.

[AlphaSigOU]

Time for a beer... or three or four!

[Storm Chaser]

One only needs to look to the Apple Corps, Microsoft Militia, Target SRS (Special Retail Services), Best Buy Brigade, or the Walmart World Legion to see
the respect khaki commands.

Well put! :clap:

[Panache]

One only needs to look to the Apple Corps, Microsoft Militia, Target SRS (Special Retail Services), Best Buy Brigade, or the Walmart World Legion to see
the respect khaki commands.

(looks around)

Where's my Blue Apron BDUs?

[AlphaSigOU]

As a side note, FLWG has a supplement that prohibits the blue beret, even for NBB graduates, at military installations within the wing.

If the headgear is OK / appropriate to wear elsewhere, it's appropriate to wear on a military base,
and if you're embarrassed to wear it in front of dad, then you probably shouldn't wear it at all.

It's the CAP equivalent of a girl walking out the front door in jeans and a t-shirt and then changing into
something her parents would hate in the car.

If I remember correctly this rule was imposed so as not to confuse CAPers with Security Forces, who wear the blue beret.

I can see how a 16 year old cadet wearing BDUs could be confused with Air Force Security Forces personnel... Wait! What? 

This policy applies to ALL military installations (last I check only the Air Force uses blue berets). TACP airmen wear black berets, but no one's ever been concerned that they may be confused with Army soldiers.

Besides, since the Air Force HAS (mostly likely) authorized CAP to wear the blue beret with BDUs and the blue beret has been in use for at least a couple of decades, I'm not sure where the concern comes from. Besides, Florida is not the only wing with military installations, yet no such restriction exists (that I'm aware of) in the other wings. I'm with Eclipse on this. Either the beret is appropriate for wear or it's not.

The local rule may have been imposed by the wing commander; the current SF beret now has a distinctive 'DEFENSOR FORTIS' (Defender of the Force) beret flash. Some SF personnel tend to get agita over anyone other than them wearing their blue beret.

[AlphaSigOU]

One only needs to look to the Apple Corps, Microsoft Militia, Target SRS (Special Retail Services), Best Buy Brigade, or the Walmart World Legion to see
the respect khaki commands.

(looks around)

Where's my Blue Apron BDUs?

And my blue chef's hat...

[abdsp51]

Last time I checked a uniform had it's purpose and flashy wasn't one of them.  Not every uniform needs a hat and if the membership has an issue with the uniform there is the process to recommend changes.  So far the only folks I have heard orseen have an issue with the G/W are those who choose to not abide by H/W and grooming and self defeat themselves when it comes to it.  And IMO the only reason I have heard for change is just to change.

So... the only folks you've heard or seen who have an issue with the G/Ws are those who actually wear the G/Ws?



Thank you for playing.  Please come again.

Go back and read the entire post and don't try to twist it.   There is nothing wrong with the G/W.

[Eclipse]

There is nothing wrong with the G/W.

You mean besides the fact that it's incomplete, right?

It also treats the members who wear it as a different class.

[Storm Chaser]

Without knowing exactly what all the requirements/limitations imposed by the Air Force are, it's hard to come up with an acceptable alternative. For example, how distinctive from the Air Force uniform does our CAP corporate uniform have to be?

Unfortunately, clearly defining these parameters is not the only obstacle. There are two distinct schools of thought about what this uniform should look like. I'm not talking about specific colors or details. I'm talking about those members who want the uniform to be more military looking and on par with the Air Force-style uniform. And those other members who want the uniform to be less military looking and more easily accessible through commercial sources. Those are the same members who oppose clearly defined and uniformed trousers (even if gray), in favor for the more vague and commercially accessible definition in CAPM 39-1.

Until these two groups can be reconciled, I think the status quo will probably prevail.  I agree with Eclipse that in order to avoid treating some of our members as a separate class, any corporate uniform need to be complete and on par with the Air Force-style uniform, regardless of color chosen.

[Майор Хаткевич]

There shouldn't be any talk of what the G/WS look like. Want to go minimal? Grade and nameplate. But I should have the option of wearing my badges and ribbons (I do). A hat brings it more inline with the blues. A service coat would actually make it a service uniform for more formal events like ceremonies, encampments, conferences, etc.

[VNY]

As a former Auxiliarist (thinking of going back) it's apples and oranges.

The CGAUX has a much, much, much closer and less adversarial relationship with its parent service regarding uniform issues.  Never once during my years in the CGAUX did I hear anything serious about junking the CG uniform entirely.  You may be surprised at the number of people in CAP today who would have us do that, except for the cadets.  I remember a Lt Col in a senior squadron telling me, "We shouldn't be wearing the Air Force uniform at all.  We have our own uniforms."

Nor do I remember any apocryphal stories of CGAUX personnel trolling for salutes.  Remember, even the National Commodore of the CGAUX has to render a salute to the newest warrant officer/ensign.

I can be sarky and say the big difference is one auxiliary's parent service likes and appreciates them, and the other feels like they have to keep theirs on a short leash, at least regarding uniforms.

The AUX has an option that CAP does not - we can wear an insignia that designates us as an AUX member, but does not imply any sort of military rank.  It would be like us having grey slide ons that have the CAP seal on them instead of a grade insignia, and stating that anyone going on a military installation had to wear that instead of the regular ones.

On anything other than Blues I don't see how its an issue, it looks different enough already.

[VNY]

There shouldn't be any talk of what the G/WS look like. Want to go minimal? Grade and nameplate. But I should have the option of wearing my badges and ribbons (I do). A hat brings it more inline with the blues. A service coat would actually make it a service uniform for more formal events like ceremonies, encampments, conferences, etc.

A service coat to go with the G/W is certainly needed.  You could even bring back the old one - nobody is going to be confused if you are wearing grey pants with it.

[VNY]

The local rule may have been imposed by the wing commander; the current SF beret now has a distinctive 'DEFENSOR FORTIS' (Defender of the Force) beret flash. Some SF personnel tend to get agita over anyone other than them wearing their blue beret.

As someone who wore a Green Beret for 12 years I can tell you all it is good for is getting you sunburned on the left side of your head.

[4fhoward]

A service coat to go with the G/W is certainly needed.  You could even bring back the old one - nobody is going to be confused if you are wearing grey pants with it.

Do you mean this one.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//post-448-1169213357.jpg

[VNY]

A service coat to go with the G/W is certainly needed.  You could even bring back the old one - nobody is going to be confused if you are wearing grey pants with it.

Do you mean this one.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//post-448-1169213357.jpg

No, but that one is even better.

[4fhoward]

No, but that one is even better.

I totally agree, pink and greens, to me are a sharp looking uniform, and it has history to boot.