The CAP Constitution & Bylaws, U.S.C., and "U.S. Civil Air Patrol"

[Eagle400]

NAME AND STATUS
The name of the Corporation shall be "Civil Air Patrol" and its status is that of the volunteer civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force. The Corporation may also be referred to as "Civil Air Patrol"  or by such other titles as may be approved in the Bylaws.

NAME AND CORPORATE SEAL
2.1 The name of Civil Air Patrol may be stated by any of the following:
a. "Civil Air Patrol"
b. "Civil Air Patrol, incorporated under Special Act of Congress approved July 1, 1946, Public Law 476, 79th Congress"
2.2 Each unit, including National Headquarters, shall use a name expressing its designation, the words "Civil Air Patrol" and may also refer to its status as the United States Air Force Auxiliary as set forth in regulations.

The corporation has the exclusive right to use the name "Civil Air Patrol" and all insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, words, and phrases the corporation adopts. This section does not affect any vested rights.

a) Volunteer Civilian Auxiliary. - The Civil Air Patrol is a volunteer civilian auxiliary of the Air Force when the services of the Civil Air Patrol are used by any department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government.

Emphasis mine. 

So, from my interpretation of these documents, general Pineda, the BOG, and the NEC did an end-run around the rules and changed the name of Civil Air Patrol without authorization. 

Is this interpretation correct, or did I miss something?

[Eclipse]

and...assuming he did.

......
......
......
......


who cares?  Open a window and go outside on a nice Sunny Sunday afternoon...

[Major Carrales]

Open a window and go outside on a nice Sunny Sunday afternoon...

You know...I'm gonna do just that with my little girl.

[ColonelJack]

So, from my interpretation of these documents, general Pineda, the BOG, and the NEC did an end-run around the rules and changed the name of Civil Air Patrol without authorization. 

Maybe they did.  But ...

So what??

Why is this such a big deal to you?  You aren't even a member!  (I'm not either, technically, but I retired.  You?) 

This issue has been beaten beyond death here.  It's done, for God's sake!  Get over it, already, and move along.  If you're going to rejoin, do so.  If not, comment from the sidelines like I do.  But for all that is Holy, man, get something else to badger into the ground!  Please!

(Sorry, folks.  Had to vent my spleen there.)

Jack

[JohnKachenmeister]

This is the City...

Sometimes people change the names of government chartered corporations without authorzation.

That's when I go to work.

I carry a badge.

DUM, TA DUM-DUM

My name's Friday.  My partner is either Bill Gannon or Frank Smith, depending on what decade we're in.  We were working the day watch for the Name Police...

[ColonelJack]

This is the City...

Sometimes people change the names of government chartered corporations without authorzation.

That's when I go to work.

I carry a badge.

DUM, TA DUM-DUM

My name's Friday.  My partner is either Bill Gannon or Frank Smith, depending on what decade we're in.  We were working the day watch for the Name Police...

Hey, Sarge ... just for the sake of argument:

If the Board of Governors of an organization doesn't have the authority to change the name of the organization, who does?

Just the facts, man ...

Jack

[LtCol White]

So, from my interpretation of these documents, general Pineda, the BOG, and the NEC did an end-run around the rules and changed the name of Civil Air Patrol without authorization. 

Maybe they did.  But ...

So what??

Why is this such a big deal to you?  You aren't even a member!  (I'm not either, technically, but I retired.  You?) 

This issue has been beaten beyond death here.  It's done, for God's sake!  Get over it, already, and move along.  If you're going to rejoin, do so.  If not, comment from the sidelines like I do.  But for all that is Holy, man, get something else to badger into the ground!  Please!

(Sorry, folks.  Had to vent my spleen there.)

Jack

TOTALLY agree! Aren't there MORE productive things to discuss??? We don't need NEW threads to relive old ones. Enough already!

[JohnKachenmeister]

I still want to talk about using brothels to raise funds in Nevada.

[Eclipse]

http://tvland.classictvhits.com/Dragnet/Sounds/DragnetNames.WAV

http://bwill.net/files/other/dragnet_88.mp3

[Major Carrales]

This is the City...

Sometimes people change the names of government chartered corporations without authorzation.

That's when I go to work.

I carry a badge.

DUM, TA DUM-DUM

My name's Friday.  My partner is either Bill Gannon or Frank Smith, depending on what decade we're in.  We were working the day watch for the Name Police...

Kach...that is so what Sparky would do!!!

Kudos!!!

[RiverAux]

I find it interesting that the same people that get into horrendous battles over whether something is in accordance with our regulations don't seem to care if a regulation is in accordance with the CAP constitution.... reminds me of some of the people in Congress...

[mikeylikey]

^  Almost like we should have a NHQ that does things like research and cross-checking?  Thats right.......still waiting to get those Interim Change Letters into the regs......wasn't it like 90 days after the letters are published the regs need updated??  OK.....lets get a person at Maxwell to take a day and update the regs.  In fact......if they outsourced the task to the membership in general.....I am sure some CAP member somewhere would be happy to do it for them.

[ADCAPer]

Is this interpretation correct, or did I miss something?

No, you didn't miss a thing. In what has become an all too common occurrence in this organization the rules and regulations that are supposed to apply to ALL members have once again been laid aside when it suits the needs of the people in charge.

Even more unsettling is the lack of integrity that a large percentage of the membership at large continues to demonstrate by allowing these actions to continue completely unchecked.

[Eclipse]

Even more unsettling is the lack of integrity that a large percentage of the membership at large continues to demonstrate by allowing these actions to continue completely unchecked.

It is a realization, even by some of those people who would be inclined to engage in those discussions, that at some point, life isn't fair, people do things they shouldn't, and you have to pick your battles.

Life is chess, not checkers, and if you always jump the piece right in front of you, you may miss the chance to win the game.

And, its also just boring at this point to continually hear from outsiders how screwed up CAP is.  Say what you want about what's going on, non-members are >certainly< not the ones who are going to fix things, and for Porthos' Love, why do they care?  And Why should we care what they think?

[ColonelJack]

Even more unsettling is the lack of integrity that a large percentage of the membership at large continues to demonstrate by allowing these actions to continue completely unchecked.

Intriguing sentence.  Pray tell, what would you like the membership at large to do about these actions?  Within the regulations (no fair saying "Hey, they're not following regs, why should I?) what exactly can the membership do if they don't like a decision that comes down from National?

Besides complain, that is.

Jack

[lordmonar]

Even more unsettling is the lack of integrity that a large percentage of the membership at large continues to demonstrate by allowing these actions to continue completely unchecked.

Take a look at the org chart!  Little old me sitting here in Nevada has no power, authority or duty to make sure the BoG, the National CC or the NB is following the rules.  All I can do is point it out.  From there it is up to congress and the federal government.

Do you really think the Attorney General is going to file charges over the addition of "United States" in front of our name?

Get a clue!

[SARMedTech]

Even more unsettling is the lack of integrity that a large percentage of the membership at large continues to demonstrate by allowing these actions to continue completely unchecked.

Take a look at the org chart!  Little old me sitting here in Nevada has no power, authority or duty to make sure the BoG, the National CC or the NB is following the rules.  All I can do is point it out.  From there it is up to congress and the federal government.

Do you really think the Attorney General is going to file charges over the addition of "United States" in front of our name?

Get a clue!

The allowance of the membership who are currently clueless to acquire  clues is not authorized and will not be reimbursed per regulations.

[Eagle400]

...(no fair saying "Hey, they're not following regs, why should I?)

But that is exactly the precedent that has been set by Pineda, the NEC, and the BoG by not changing the Constitution & Bylaws and U.S.C. before changing the name of the organization.

Face it: these people are hypocrites.  They get so bent out of shape when someone in the rank and file of the organization doesn't follow the regulations, but it's no sweat off their back when they do it themselves.     

[flyerthom]

I still want to talk about using brothels to raise funds in Nevada.

Last Year, when I was driving home from the National Conference, I saw one for sale right next to an air strip.

Think of the possibilities ...

CAPFLIGHT 1234 - RTB from that mile high club tour for a Search for a missing Cessna...

[Eclipse]

$10 says the ELT counts skyrocket in the area, most of them being tail numbers with "CP" on the end...

[lordmonar]

...(no fair saying "Hey, they're not following regs, why should I?)

But that is exactly the precedent that has been set by Pineda, the NEC, and the BoG by not changing the Constitution & Bylaws and U.S.C. before changing the name of the organization.

Face it: these people are hypocrites.  They get so bent out of shape when someone in the rank and file of the organization doesn't follow the regulations, but it's no sweat off their back when they do it themselves. 

So quit....and shut up already!

If you don't like the leadership of the organisaiton....either take an active role in try to change it or quit.

[Eagle400]

You know Capt Harris, you seem to think that it is my sole purpose in life to make you happy.  Well guess what: it ain't!

You're not in charge of me, you're not even my mother... so maybe it's not me who should shut up.

I've got 16 months before I will rejoin CAP.  I'm sure you can hold on and keep your panties out of a knot before then.



   

[pixelwonk]

Yup, this ones done.

[Eclipse]

You know Capt Harris, you seem to think that it is my sole purpose in life to make you happy.  Well guess what: it ain't!

You're not in charge of me, you're not even my mother... so maybe it's not me who should shut up.

I've got 16 months before I will rejoin CAP.  I'm sure you can hold on and keep your panties out of a knot before then.
   

Sooo...I'm assuming you never got that window open, then?

[Eagle400]

Sooo...I'm assuming you never got that window open, then?

[Redacted]

[ColonelJack]

...(no fair saying "Hey, they're not following regs, why should I?)

But that is exactly the precedent that has been set by Pineda, the NEC, and the BoG by not changing the Constitution & Bylaws and U.S.C. before changing the name of the organization.

Face it: these people are hypocrites.  They get so bent out of shape when someone in the rank and file of the organization doesn't follow the regulations, but it's no sweat off their back when they do it themselves.     

Okay, fine ... they're hypocrites.  Total hypocrites.  They all say one thing and then do another. 

You still haven't answered my question.

Why is this issue so important to you?  You aren't a member, and by your own words won't be one for 16 months.  It can't be because you don't want to buy new tapes for your BDUs.  I'm really intrigued why the addition of "U.S." to "Civil Air Patrol" has caused you to become so bent out of shape.

Either I don't get it or you're over-reacting big time here.  If it's the first, please explain to me your reasons -- I would really like to know.  And if it's the second, well ... use your own judgment.

Jack

[Eagle400]

Okay, fine ... they're hypocrites.  Total hypocrites.  They all say one thing and then do another. 
You still haven't answered my question.

Why is this issue so important to you?

Because the precedent that has been set by general Pineda, the BoG, and NEC's incorrect renaming of CAP is a horrible one and now any member can look at these people and say, "Well, they broke regulations, I guess I can too!"

Just because I'm not a member anymore doesn't mean I don't have a voice.  You're not a member, and you have a voice, don't you? 

Perhaps people from national are looking at this page, and I hope they are because I want them to know exactly how I feel.  This is regardless of whether or not I can do anything about it.  In fact, if I were a member now, I'd feel pretty reluctant to try to effect any change because general Pineda likes to 2b members he doesn't agree with.

I predict someday CAP will have a more open-minded National Commander who actually cares about the people in the organization and is open to feedback.  All good things in time.

You aren't a member, and by your own words won't be one for 16 months.

That's correct, Lt Col Bagley.  Come to think of it, you aren't a member, either.  That pendelum swings both ways in this case. 

It can't be because you don't want to buy new tapes for your BDUs.

You are correct, sir.  I want to get my degree before rejoining CAP.  By then, I'll have more money to sustain a membership in CAP and buy all the stuff I need.   

I'm really intrigued why the addition of "U.S." to "Civil Air Patrol" has caused you to become so bent out of shape.

It's not the addition of "U.S." to Civil Air Patrol that has caused me to become so bent out of shape.  It's the way in which it was done.  If there was ever a thing National did totally bassackwards, this is it. 

Either I don't get it or you're over-reacting big time here.  If it's the first, please explain to me your reasons -- I would really like to know.  And if it's the second, well ... use your own judgment.

Jack

I think you don't get it, sir (or maybe you do by now, I don't know).  You seem to think it is the inclusion of "U.S." in Civil Air Patrol that makes me mad.  It's not.  It's the way in which it was brought about.  No change to the U.S.C. (which requires a vote, among other things), no change to the CAP Constitution and Bylaws, just an arbitrary decision to change the name of the organization. 

They just don't get it.  FIRST you change the documents to reflect a change, THEN you change the name of the organization.  None of this make a change first and then do the correct procedure as an afterthought.     

[Pylon]

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