Colorado Cadet under investigation for impersinating an officer

[Major Carrales]

My Friend, I don't make the laws (yet, anyways ), but that is one of them.

Just tell me where to show up to stuff the ballot box vote for you when you run.

I live in Jim Wells County in Texas...looked up Ballot Box 13...and you'll know just how much gravity that statement actually carries.

[SARMedTech]

My Friend, I don't make the laws (yet, anyways ), but that is one of them.

Just tell me where to show up to stuff the ballot box vote for you when you run.

I live in Jim Wells County in Texas...looked up Ballot Box 13...and you'll know just how much gravity that statement actually carries.

Well, Major, I dont live in Texas, but Ill send my dad over to vote for you. He lives in Devine and works in San Antonio and has a residence there as well. Just make sure that whatever you run for youre listed on the Republican ticket. The old man breaks out in hives every time he hears the word democrat. He has hives alot around me  his "knee-jerk liberal, bleeding heart son."

[ColonelJack]

Hey, I'm from Chicago ... we know how to make an election come out the way we want it.

I'll just send some of the boys down there.  Rest easy, Sparky.  We'll make it happen for you, buddy.



Jack

[BillB]

Kirt,   check the Regulation, a Squadron Commander can't suspend for over 60 days, and a Wing Commander for over 180 days.
This cadet should get a long talk from the Squadron Commander and a 60 day suspension plus a reduction in grade.

[ZigZag911]

2b a cadet for doing a dumb thing?

We won't have any left!

How about if we limit 2Bs to "dumb, illegal, and discrediting to CAP"?

[Stonewall]

Kirt,   check the Regulation, a Squadron Commander can't suspend for over 60 days, and a Wing Commander for over 180 days.
This cadet should get a long talk from the Squadron Commander and a 60 day suspension plus a reduction in grade.

I wasn't really saying this based on any reg, but rather, saying the kid needs some time away from the program to get some perspctive on life before being allowed to be around cadets or represent CAP.

[mikeylikey]

^  I would imagine a Court ordered probation of some time period is in store for all kids involved!  This will hurt their immediate futures.

[Ned]

^  I would imagine a Court ordered probation of some time period is in store for all kids involved!  This will hurt their immediate futures.

It is worth remembering that no one has yet been charged with a crime, let alone convicted and put on probation.

And while I'm no expert on Colorado law, given that the story indicates that the lights might well be legal for some flavors of volunteer and that they apparently never actually impersonated an officer, it seems likely that the only potential violations of law are fairly minor traffic violations.

Which in California we would call infractions, punishible by a fine only (or volunteer work in lieu of a fine for indigent folks.)

We still need a lot more facts before making any judgments about what, if anything, should happen as a result of this foolishness.

Ned Lee
Former Legal Officer

[JohnKachenmeister]

Thanks, Ned.

From the sounds of some of the posts here, I suspect some people were looking for a rope, a tree, and a horse.

They did something which was dumb and unsafe.  That can be fixed with actions less than the 2b.

The ONLY people that have remarked negatively about the fact that one or more are CAP cadets are folks on a web site that apparently never liked us much anyway ("Senile old men reminiscing about the Great War and pimply-faced teens with Chuck Yeager dreams").

[capchiro]

Hey, I resent that.  I was a pimply-faced teen with Chuck Yeager dreams in 1963-1964.  And then I had dreams about Poncho, but I digress and what was I saying??  Where is my blue polo shirt?  Who is that old gray haired fart looking back at me from the mirror anyway??  Never mind.. Later..

[SARMedTech]

You know, I think we are making a huge deal out of something which isnt a deal at all yet, yet alone a big one. Something like this occurred in the not two distant past with some younger USCG Auxies and they were actually pretending to be LEOs. My teenager days are further away than i would like them to be, but these were some kids who had their teenage motivations for doing whatever they did and it doesnt sounds like it was to pillage society. They were silly teenagers. And while they will probably be called to answer for their actions at some point, the real question here is what if any laws did they break and who, if anyone, was harmed. When I worked as a defense law paralegal, we were constantly assigned  cases from juvenile court for kids that did far worse things than what it seems occurred here (ie stabbing their classmate with a home-made shank, or breaking into the home of the attractive next door neighbor lady in the middle of the night because they had a crush on her.) If the law where these cadets live is anything like it is where I live, they MIGHT be found delinquent, since out here, juveniles are not found guilty they are found delinquent and here, judges like to give lots of community service time...LOTS and LOTS of it...really UNPLEASANT community service ala the TV show Dirty Jobs. The fortunate thing here I suppose is that they didnt come across a LEO during their escapades and because they were being silly, get hurt because one of them had his hand on whatever that was in the holster...who knows, maybe they just watched Dog the Bounty Hunter too often and armed themselves with industrial sized cans of OC. These are teenagers, folks and teenagers (along with alot of other folks) do stupid things. I dont think they deserve to be hung for it or even necessarily spend anytime in juvenile corrections. One of the worst things that could happen is that a judge could order that they have nothing to do with CAP for a time and if they are the type of cadets I have encountered so far, this would drive home the behaviour point more instantly than just about anything.

[flyguy06]

You know, I think we are making a huge deal out of something which isnt a deal at all yet,

So, whats new with the folks that visit this site? 

[floridacyclist]

The ONLY people that have remarked negatively about the fact that one or more are CAP cadets are folks on a web site that apparently never liked us much anyway ("Senile old men reminiscing about the Great War and pimply-faced teens with Chuck Yeager dreams").

Opinions don't form in a vacuum.

Given that those remarks were made in what many would consider a private forum type of environment (he never expected us to be reading about it) I wouldn't worry too much about it; it's locker-room talk.

What concerns me is further on in the thread, there are some very real negative stereotypes brought up in connection with us that are coming from what appears to be the professional LE/EMS community. Whether they are related to isolated incidents or not, we need to be concerned with how these stereotypes get their start in the first place, and how they are reinforced. More importantly, how do we counter them? What lessons can we learn, and how can we improve our training and command/control to avoid these issues in the first place?

Rather than just writing them off because we don't like what we say, I think we need to read wht they say about us, and take a long hard look at how we may be reinforcing those stereotypes by how we act around other agencies. Professionalism and recognizing that while we may have a useful role in emergency response,  we are not God's gift to the community is a good start. We have the same problem in ham radio where some guys go a little overboard dressing up like Little Lord Fauntleroy and riding in like Teddy Roosevelt up San Juan Hill.

Incidentally, we had a joint missing persons exercise with the Tallahasse Fire Department USAR team the other day and the first thing their training chief wanted to know was if I expected to be the IC. I told him "No sir, we were hoping that you would take that role so that us and the SE K9 SAR team can better learn how to work for you as a force multiplier". He showed up with a mobile command post, a bunch of trucks and FFs and we had a grand old time. I don't think it would have gone anywhere if I'd told him that CAP was used to being in charge on SAR missions.

[SARMedTech]

You know, I think we are making a huge deal out of something which isnt a deal at all yet,

So, whats new with the folks that visit this site? 

I havent been able to get a full look at the video yet because i am currently using a dinosaur of a laptop with dialup since my DSL went up the spout. Interestingly, I dont think it will end up that these youngsters did a whole lot wrong. OK the lights they are using may not be kosher in CO. It may be found that their attire could be construed as intended to lead a "reasonable person under reasonable circumstances" when accompanied with the lights that they are actually an official emergency crew of some sort. But you know, down in my second home of NM, if they had paid the $75 bucks for a non- profit license and filed the right paper work and called themselves "The New Mexico Motorist Aide Society" (an actual group that exists in NM) they would have had their pictures on the news as community heroes and doers of good deeds. In so far as I know (I will let Ned field this one  ), its not illegal to spend your own time and money and carry tire repair kits, and a tool box and a gas can in your SUV (the only thing that bothers me about the SUV is that working four actual emergency services gigs, I still couldnt afford it) and assist stranded motorists. It might be slightly dangerous, not knowing what you might walk up on, but not illegal. Lets just hope the punishment fits the "offense" for lack of a better term and that they arent drummed out of CAP for it. They should probably be more concerned about misrepresenting the ski patrol with that jacket. Funny thing about Americans, we are always looking for someone doing something wrong, that we miss the well-intentioned (if misguided) amongst us who are trying to help. Yeah I think we can put away the hanging ropes for now.

[Major Carrales]

Incidentally, we had a joint missing persons exercise with the Tallahasse Fire Department USAR team the other day and the first thing their training chief wanted to know was if I expected to be the IC. I told him "No sir, we were hoping that you would take that role so that us and the SE K9 SAR team can better learn how to work for you as a force multiplier". He showed up with a mobile command post, a bunch of trucks and FFs and we had a grand old time. I don't think it would have gone anywhere if I'd told him that CAP was used to being in charge on SAR missions.

This is the approach we take when working with county and local government.  We approach them as an asset for their use, not the reverse.

Now, one thing I did see that that website that has been a bit of an opposite here is a good number of former members of CAP actually defending CAP...even when they were slightly disgruntled.  In other words, they don't go out and form webpages and blogs trying to "bring down" CAP officials or launch organizational destroying "blockbuster" strikes.

[RAZOR]

Kirt,   check the Regulation, a Squadron Commander can't suspend for over 60 days, and a Wing Commander for over 180 days.
This cadet should get a long talk from the Squadron Commander and a 60 day suspension plus a reduction in grade.

Which Regulation would that be?

[MIKE]

CAPR 35-1 ASSIGNMENT AND DUTY STATUS

[flyguy06]

You know, I think we are making a huge deal out of something which isnt a deal at all yet,

So, whats new with the folks that visit this site? 

I havent been able to get a full look at the video yet because i am currently using a dinosaur of a laptop with dialup since my DSL went up the spout. Interestingly, I dont think it will end up that these youngsters did a whole lot wrong. OK the lights they are using may not be kosher in CO. It may be found that their attire could be construed as intended to lead a "reasonable person under reasonable circumstances" when accompanied with the lights that they are actually an official emergency crew of some sort. But you know, down in my second home of NM, if they had paid the $75 bucks for a non- profit license and filed the right paper work and called themselves "The New Mexico Motorist Aide Society" (an actual group that exists in NM) they would have had their pictures on the news as community heroes and doers of good deeds. In so far as I know (I will let Ned field this one  ), its not illegal to spend your own time and money and carry tire repair kits, and a tool box and a gas can in your SUV (the only thing that bothers me about the SUV is that working four actual emergency services gigs, I still couldnt afford it) and assist stranded motorists. It might be slightly dangerous, not knowing what you might walk up on, but not illegal. Lets just hope the punishment fits the "offense" for lack of a better term and that they arent drummed out of CAP for it. They should probably be more concerned about misrepresenting the ski patrol with that jacket. Funny thing about Americans, we are always looking for someone doing something wrong, that we miss the well-intentioned (if misguided) amongst us who are trying to help. Yeah I think we can put away the hanging ropes for now.

But they didnt actaully "help" anybody. They kinda walked up and went back to their car and left. What community service did they perform?

[SARMedTech]

Does the video show clearly whether or not anyone was in the car?

[flyguy06]

There was somone in the car but I believe all the kids did was go up to the car, thrust their chest and leave.