Is there a "Chief of Staff" position at the Squadron level? Ive never heard of it. Ive heard of the Dep Comm for Seniors, but Chief of Staff???
I suppose a commander could designate one if he really wanted to, but it's not a squadron position in the 20-1. I would guess that it would need to be a large unit to even think about actually needing one.
Would anyone have a job description?
Isn't that more of a role for the "Executive Officer" at the squadron level?
Quote from: captrncap on July 06, 2007, 05:16:50 PM
Would anyone have a job description?
For that, you'd have to venture out of the scope of CAP, since as stated above, it's not in CAPR 20-1.
For all intents and purposes, the Chief of Staff would manage the staff personnel under him or her. As Dave mentioned, the necessity usually comes with larger units. More specifically, higher eschelons. For instance, it is easier to manage WIWG's wing staff with a CoS for Missions; ES, CP, AE, etc... and one for Mission Support, ie: admin, Personnel, logisics, me, etc... It leaves the Vice Commander to take the place of the wing CC, as well as exercise command over the group commanders. The Wing Commander, along with the CV and both chiefs of staff
(and others such as IG, safety...) comprise the core of the command staff.
Quote from: Pylon on July 06, 2007, 05:24:40 PM
Isn't that more of a role for the "Executive Officer" at the squadron level?
Agreed. At the squadron level, an Executive Officer, also a position not included in 20-1, would be more appropriate, if needed at all. Most Deputies for Seniors fulfill that role. A few years ago I was an XO in a unit that had a large senior membership. It was efficient to have that position in light of the fact that it took some of the burden off the CC and Deputy for Seniors.
Quote from: Flying Pig on July 06, 2007, 05:13:25 PM
Is there a "Chief of Staff" position at the Squadron level? Ive never heard of it. Ive heard of the Dep Comm for Seniors, but Chief of Staff???
I've always thought that was the role of the Deputy Commander for Seniors (DCS)...
-SeattleSarge
Quote from: tedda on July 06, 2007, 05:36:09 PM
Quote from: captrncap on July 06, 2007, 05:16:50 PM
Would anyone have a job description?
For that, you'd have to venture out of the scope of CAP, since as stated above, it's not in CAPR 20-1.
For all intents and purposes, the Chief of Staff would manage the staff personnel under him or her. As Dave mentioned, the necessity usually comes with larger units. More specifically, higher eschelons. For instance, it is easier to manage WIWG's wing staff with a CoS for Missions; ES, CP, AE, etc... and one for Mission Support, ie: admin, Personnel, logisics, me, etc... It leaves the Vice Commander to take the place of the wing CC, as well as exercise command over the group commanders. The Wing Commander, along with the CV and both chiefs of staff (and others such as IG, safety...) comprise the core of the command staff.
At the squadron level, an Executive Officer, also a position not included in 20-1, would be more appropriate, if needed at all. Most Deputies for Seniors fulfill that role. A few years ago I was an XO in a unit that had a large senior membership. It was efficient to have that position in light of the fact that it took some of the burden off the CC and Deputy for Seniors.
Would the SQ CC have the authority to create this position?
My squadron is quite large - 25 active seniors and 40 active cadets.
I have no intention of making it a composite because I don't want an "US" vs. "THEM" issue but I definitely someone to help manage the seniors as the DC works with the cadets.
I do remember seeing in some reg (can't recall which one) but it does say that a COMMANDER may "create" (again, can't be sure of the wording) position to fulfill the mission.
Quote from: captrncap on July 06, 2007, 05:49:54 PM
Would the SQ CC have the authority to create this position?
My squadron is quite large - 25 active seniors and 40 active cadets.
I have no intention of making it a composite because I don't want an "US" vs. "THEM" issue but I definitely someone to help manage the seniors as the DC works with the cadets.
I do remember seeing in some reg (can't recall which one) but it does say that a COMMANDER may "create" (again, can't be sure of the wording) position to fulfill the mission.
Indeed, the commander has the authority to appoint anybody to any staff position. Need a Squadron Grantwriting Officer? Add it to the PA-1 or cut a 2A. Need a Squadron Security Officer (for whatever strange reason), same deal. Need an additional officer to manage your staff members - appoint an Executive Officer.
Let's clarify most units have 2 deputy commanders. You mentioned the DC which I am assuming is your deputy commander of cadets. There is also in 20-1 a position description and title for Deputy Commander of seniors. And to avoid conflict you make one of them the ranking Deputy.
Quote from: J.Hendricks on July 06, 2007, 06:03:39 PM
Let's clarify most units have 2 deputy commanders. You mentioned the DC which I am assuming is your deputy commander of cadets. There is also in 20-1 a position description and title for Deputy Commander of seniors. And to avoid conflict you make one of them the ranking Deputy.
Cite, please.
Why would either be ranking? Neither program is defined as having precedence.
Quote from: CAPR-20-1 Section A, Para 3Organizational Structure. Civil Air Patrol's organizational structure at all levels follows the basic organizational concepts in this regulation. However, there may be situations where wings/units need to realign organizational elements to fit unique mission requirements. In these cases region commanders may approve deviations to improve efficiency.
Emphasis mine
For the barracks lawyers, the approval part is up for interpretation.
Whatever. I highly doubt that a squadron adding an XO is high on a region CC's "issues" list.
You know what's funny...20-1 doesn't have a position description for the Deputy Commander for Seniors... ???
Quote from: captrncap on July 06, 2007, 05:49:54 PMMy squadron is quite large - 25 active seniors and 40 active cadets.
That's about what my squadron was when I was a Commander... I got along fine with the two deputies as laid out in the composite squadron org chart.
Besides, that's not "quite large". The middle school squadron in our Group has about 120 cadets. :o
Quote from: jimmydeanno on July 06, 2007, 07:31:00 PM
You know what's funny...20-1 doesn't have a position description for the Deputy Commander for Seniors... ???
No, but they show the position on the Composite Squadron Org Chart (Fig. 16) as leading the Senior Staff.
Right, but most of the other jobs have descriptions, for all we know the DCS is supposed to take coffee orders for those people below them... ;D
Quote from: tedda on July 06, 2007, 05:36:09 PM
Quote from: captrncap on July 06, 2007, 05:16:50 PM
My squadron is quite large - 25 active seniors and 40 active cadets.
I have no intention of making it a composite because I don't want an "US" vs. "THEM" issue..
How is your squadron classified?
a. Senior Squadron. Comprised entirely of senior members.
b. Cadet Squadron. Comprised primarily of cadets with a minimum of three senior members to meet supervisory, administrative, and training requirements in the conduct of cadet programs.
c. Composite Squadron. Comprised of both senior and cadet members, conducting both senior and cadet programs.
In a composite squadron, the CC needs to define who is in charge in his/her absence -- hence the need to designate DCS or DCC as 'ranking' (unless difference in their grades makes it obvious).
Necessary because 20-1 places DCs on same level.
Many units seem to simply assume DCS is the 'real' 2nd in command, but this is not a matter of regulation.
I've known some large Groups that appointed a chief of staff (in one case the Group CC initially used term Executive Officer to avoid conflict or confusion with Wing....until the other Groups followed suit, and those groups AND the wing HQ called them all 'chiefs of staff', I guess because it was the familiar title from 20-1).
Assigning an officer to this position (assuming you have someone suitable) helps spread out span of control somewhat more reasonably.
I could see a really large, active squadron having need for someone to work with DCS.
So what your saying is......
A SQ. with 5 cadets and 6 Seniors probably doesnt need a Chief of Staff AND a Deputy for Seniors?
Good...thats what i thought.
No, what it really needs is a Recruiting Officer!! :)