When do I get to be a 2LT?

[Nomex Maximus]

I don't really care about rank at all. I was just asking because I had read the regs and it seems like to me that I am entitled to it. You know, it makes a big difference in the paycheck I get each week. And also, I am EXPECTING to be SALUTED by cadets and the new SMs that haven't getten promoted yet.

(Just out of curiosity, does anyone in CAP salute at all? I been here four months and haven't seen one yet.)

To answer questions, I am signed off and qualified as a scanner. And I passed the airplane written test. Woohoo, next week I start observer training and will be going on a wing mission this month or next to get that done as well. I even passed the Yeager tests just for fun one night without studying. And, I helped wash the airplane just before it got an award for being the cleanest plane at the wing mission. Heck, maybe I can help the MG with any tests he is working on...

[capchiro]

Nomex, as a senior member, or officer, as National wants you to be referred to, you outrank the highest ranking cadet and if you are in uniform, they owe you a salute.  You in turn owe salutes to all other senior members that outrank you.  So hang around the cadets and point out that they are to salute you.  Good luck with your CAP career and if there is anything you need, there is somebody on this board that can help, usually.

[arajca]

I don't really care about rank at all. I was just asking because I had read the regs and it seems like to me that I am entitled to it.

Actually, you aren't entitled to it. It is an OPTION your commander has. Many units/groups/wings are not giving advanced grade out of the gate. In your case - and this is only a guess - your commander may be waiting until you PASS your Form 5, since your advanced promotion is based on your pilot status.

And also, I am EXPECTING to be SALUTED by cadets and the new SMs that haven't getten promoted yet.

(Just out of curiosity, does anyone in CAP salute at all? I been here four months and haven't seen one yet.)

In many units, seniors do not salute each other not due to a lack of respect, just a lack of the military culture of saluting. Heck, my CAPRAP (AFRes Maj) blushes when myself (CAP Capt) and other seniors salute her. Typically though, when cadets are around, seniors do salute other seniors.  I don't know if you currently salute CAP officers now, but if not, don't expect any officers to salute you.

To answer questions, I am signed off and qualified as a scanner. And I passed the airplane written test. Woohoo, next week I start observer training and will be going on a wing mission this month or next to get that done as well. I even passed the Yeager tests just for fun one night without studying. And, I helped wash the airplane just before it got an award for being the cleanest plane at the wing mission.

Congradulations. However, none of those are cause for advanced promotions. See my point above.

Heck, maybe I can help the MG with any tests he is working on...

Let's not go there.

[Ford73Diesel]

And also, I am EXPECTING to be SALUTED by cadets and the new SMs that haven't getten promoted yet.

Are you a senior member without grade? CAPR 35-5 does not define SMWOG as an officer, so I would'nt expect any salutes. If you are a 2d Lt, than they have to salute you.

[RiverAux]

Okay, so the guy is a qualified scanner.... can he now get the INITIAL grade appointment he is qualified for?  Are you going to make him wait some arbitrary time period? 

Like I said, I don't like a lot of these initial grade appointments, but no one has shown any good reason not to give it to somebody who rates it, especially someone who is apparently really going after it -- I can't think of many new members in my time in CAP who have gotten ES-rated that quickly.

[SARMedTech]

I have been told  that because of my status as an EMT, that when I actually get a grade instead of "SM" that I could go past 2d Lt and right to 1st Lt. Is anyone familiar with this happening or if it is regulation. I have completed and am completing alot of testing in the coming weeks and just wondered. I know there are special promotion circumstances for professionals whose skills might be off some use to CAP. I cant find the regs, but any info would be appreciated.

[AlphaSigOU]

I have been told  that because of my status as an EMT, that when I actually get a grade instead of "SM" that I could go past 2d Lt and right to 1st Lt. Is anyone familiar with this happening or if it is regulation. I have completed and am completing alot of testing in the coming weeks and just wondered. I know there are special promotion circumstances for professionals whose skills might be off some use to CAP. I cant find the regs, but any info would be appreciated.

CAPR 160-1 covers the CAP Health Services Program, and which medical fields are considered eligible to become part of the program. EMT (and by inference, paramedic) is one of them.

CAPR 35-5, Section E, para 25c covers Health Services appointments to advanced grades in CAP:

25. Initial Appointment. Upon completion of Level I and CPPT, unit commanders may recommend health service personnel, legal officers, professional educators serving as aerospace education officers and financial professionals serving as finance officers for an appropriate grade commensurate with their CAP position (see figure 6) and professional qualifications as outlined below. Members applying and qualifying for the CAP chaplaincy will be appointed to the appropriate grade upon acceptance by National Headquarters. NOTE: Members in these categories who are members of the Armed Forces are also eligible for consideration to higher grades equivalent to their Armed Forces grade under the provision of paragraph 15 of this regulation. However in no case will the grade exceed lieutenant colonel.

c. Health Service Personnel. Upon successful completion of Level I and CPPT, unit commanders may initiate a CAPF 2 on health service personnel recommending appointment to an appropriate grade, as outlined below. The member's qualifications will be evaluated by the wing health service program officer, who will provide his or her comments and recommendations to the wing commander prior to approval. (Specific qualifications for medical personnel are outlined in CAPR 160-1.)

1) Second Lieutenant. Licensed practical or vocational nurse, paramedic, or other health technician.

2) First Lieutenant. Registered nurse, physician assistant or other health professional with a bachelors or masters degree as outlined in CAPR 160-1.

3) Captain. Licensed physician, dentist, or other health professional with an earned doctorate degree in a health care discipline.

4) Major. Licensed physician appointed a unit health service program officer in accordance with CAPR 160-1 who has served 1 year time-in-grade as a captain.

As an EMT you could be appointed a 2d Lt. As a Health Services Officer (the title 'Medical Officer' and 'Nurse Officer' applies only to licensed doctors and nurses), you can get promoted only by serving time-in-grade, without the  professional development requirements. However, I would recommend that the professional development not be skipped.

Section E, para 24 of CAPR 35-3:

24. Training Requirements. Professional personnel must complete Level I and CPPT prior to appointment to CAP officer grade. Health Service personnel, legal officers, professional educators serving as aerospace education officers and financial professionals serving as finance officers are exempt from all other training requirements prescribed for promotion to additional grades.

Initial appointment must be recommended by the squadron commander and approved by the wing health services officer. Hope this helps.

[Camas]

This fellow is going to get his form 5 in a few weeks and is already in scanner training. 

Did you read his post?  He has completed the scanner initial requirements, which means he has completed GES, which means he has completed Level 1 and CPPT.

Sorry, I missed that.  Looks like he should be promoted.  Lots of people have done far less for promotions.

[Major Lord]

Perhaps an interim appointment as an Admiral of Nebraska to tide (no pun intended) him over? Any brand new member showing this much enthusiasm is to be encouraged!

Capt. Lord

[AlphaSigOU]

Perhaps an interim appointment as an Admiral of Nebraska to tide (no pun intended) him over? Any brand new member showing this much enthusiasm is to be encouraged!

Capt. Lord

Yea, that would be nice... but the Guv'ner of the Great State of Nebraska shut the 'back door' in which we non-residents could go get us an Admiral of the Nebraska Navy commission! (Got mine before they shut the door.)

[arajca]

Allow me to quote the relevant section of CAPR 35-5:

e. The member must also be certified by the unit commander as contributing his or her special skills to the mission of CAP and performing in an exemplary manner meriting promotion to the grade recommended.

So, until you are a CAP pilot, you are not eligible for advanced promotion under the "Mission Related Skills" section of CAPR 35-5. That is the section that relates to pilots receiving advanced grade.

I am aware that para 22 says:

However, immediately upon completion of Level I and CPPT, the unit commander may recommend the member for appointment to a grade commensurate with his or her special skill, as outlined in figure 5.

But keep in mind the para 21 establishes whether you are eligible for that consideration. If you don't meet the eligibility requirements, para 22 does not apply.

[RiverAux]

Yes, a commander that wanted to be a jerk about it could use that first part to delay the promotion, but why would they really want to, especially for a promotion only to 2nd Lt, which comes to the average member without having to do a darn thing after six months?  But, a pilot could be contributing their skills to CAP without having to be a CAP Pilot.  Using their knowledge there are a great variety of ways they could be putting it to use in CAP without having to fly. 

These promotions are there to attract people with skills we need into CAP and we shouldn't be looking for ways not to give them out. 

Should we not give the doctors their promotion until they actually provide some sort of medical service to CAP?  Lawyers? 

As long as these opportunities are there, they should be used.  And I'm saying that as someone who has earned my rank the hardway without any shortcuts at all. 

[arajca]

Yes, a commander that wanted to be a jerk about it could use that first part to delay the promotion, but why would they really want to, especially for a promotion only to 2nd Lt, which comes to the average member without having to do a darn thing after six months?  But, a pilot could be contributing their skills to CAP without having to be a CAP Pilot.  Using their knowledge there are a great variety of ways they could be putting it to use in CAP without having to fly.

What is the problem? The OP doesn't meet the requirements. He is not flying a/c for CAP. That is what the pilot skills are for. Yes, there are additional uses for his knowledge, but the function of a pilot is to fly planes. By his own admission, he hasn't taken his CAPF 5 flight, so he cannot fly CAP aircraft.

These promotions are there to attract people with skills we need into CAP and we shouldn't be looking for ways not to give them out.

Yes, and they each have specific requirements that must be met. If someone doesn't meet the requirements, they don't get promoted. Simple. CAPR 35-5 lists the requirements for this. 

Should we not give the doctors their promotion until they actually provide some sort of medical service to CAP?  Lawyers?

Your mixing fruit again. Section D covers Mission Related Skills, i.e. pilot, comm, ground school instructor. Section E covers Professional Appointments and promotions, i.e. health services, lawyers, chaplain, ad nauseum. 

As long as these opportunities are there, they should be used.

As long as they meet the requirements.

And I'm saying that as someone who has earned my rank the hardway without any shortcuts at all. 

Same here.

[RiverAux]

Okay, lets stick with the mission related skills INITIAL grade appointment requirements.  Under your theory, since even rated mechanics are not going to be doing repair work on our aircraft, then they should not receive the initial grade appointments they are due? 

I understand where you're coming from, but in my opinon if the CAP reg gods had intended to follow your model, it would have been very easy to say that pilots don't get the rank they are qualified for unless they have obtained the CAP Pilot rating.  That isn't complicated to say.  Since they didn't say it, I'm certainly not going to assume that is what they meant. 

There is only a general requirement that people be contributing their skills to the organization and none of them, even the advancement for radio operators is tied to specific CAP mission qualifications. 

[star1151]

Under your theory, since even rated mechanics are not going to be doing repair work on our aircraft, then they should not receive the initial grade appointments they are due?   

I was going to ask the same question.  I was told I qualified for 1st Lt. right after completing all the required training because I'm an A&P....even though I wouldn't be using that rating to help out CAP.  Why would that even be an option for A&P's if the powers that be wanted the rating to actually be used?  Or am I missing something?

(It's sort of a moot point in my case because I'm also a CFI and will be using those skills)

[jb512]

As an EMT you could be appointed a 2d Lt. As a Health Services Officer (the title 'Medical Officer' and 'Nurse Officer' applies only to licensed doctors and nurses), you can get promoted only by serving time-in-grade, without the  professional development requirements. However, I would recommend that the professional development not be skipped.

Actually, to be specific, just being an EMT won't get him any rank.  It clearly specifies that he would have to be a paramedic to get 2d Lt.

[arajca]

As an EMT you could be appointed a 2d Lt. As a Health Services Officer (the title 'Medical Officer' and 'Nurse Officer' applies only to licensed doctors and nurses), you can get promoted only by serving time-in-grade, without the  professional development requirements. However, I would recommend that the professional development not be skipped.

Actually, to be specific, just being an EMT won't get him any rank.  It clearly specifies that he would have to be a paramedic to get 2d Lt.

Actually, EMT gets 2d Lt. Source: CAPR 35-5, Figure 6.

Licensed practical or vocational nurse, paramedic, EMT
or other health technician

emphasis mine

[arajca]

Okay, lets stick with the mission related skills INITIAL grade appointment requirements.  Under your theory, since even rated mechanics are not going to be doing repair work on our aircraft, then they should not receive the initial grade appointments they are due? 

I understand where you're coming from, but in my opinon if the CAP reg gods had intended to follow your model, it would have been very easy to say that pilots don't get the rank they are qualified for unless they have obtained the CAP Pilot rating.  That isn't complicated to say.  Since they didn't say it, I'm certainly not going to assume that is what they meant. 

There is only a general requirement that people be contributing their skills to the organization and none of them, even the advancement for radio operators is tied to specific CAP mission qualifications. 

IMHO, the maintence promotions are a holdover from when CAP did maintain its own a/c and should be done away with. And, with the change in focus for the Comm track from a technical background to a management function, the same should be done with the Comm promotion.

[RiverAux]

Well, now you're talking about the way things SHOULD be and not what the regulations lay out at the moment. 

[brasda91]

Most commander's don't feel like they have a good grasp as to the member's qualifications and quality in as few as 6-12 meetings 

  Doesn't your squadron meet weekly?  That would put his attendance around 24 mtgs +/-.