Young SM desires to be an NCO - Regulations unclear

Started by MacGruff, July 04, 2018, 02:26:00 PM

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MacGruff

Hi everyone,

I was recently presented with the following situation: one of the Squadrons in my area has a new Senior Member. He is 19 years old and is serving in the National Guard. In the Guard, he has reached an E-4 grade. He would really like to be a CAP NCO and was wondering how he goes about it?

Reading CAPR 35-5 presents a quandary:
*   Paragraph 6.2.1 states that "Current or former military members holding the grade E-4 that wish to hold a CAP NCO grade will be appointed to the grade of SSgt after completion of Level I."

So far, so good.

The lack of clarity comes from the following:

Paragraph 1.6 of the same regulation states that the minimum age for getting CAP officer grades is 21 years of age. Hmm.... My prospective NCO is only 19.... So, that makes me wonder if there is an age "issue" here? Looking more thoroughly through 35-5 I see nothing discussing minimum ages for NCOs. Further complicating matters in my mind is that the only part of 35-5 that discusses Senior Members who are less than 21 is in paragraph 7.1 which discusses Flight Officer grades and specifically states that Flight Officer grades are "... for those members who are otherwise eligible for CAP officer grades except that they have not yet reached the minimum age of 21." Again, this is talking about officers and not NCOs.

I am pondering this while waiting for the 4th of July picnic and fireworks displays...  :-)

Checking other regulations like 39-2 and 35-1 has yielded nothing. I have the Wing Chief of Staff stumped about it as well... and NHQ is not open today.

What's the opinion here? Is this a case where this young man has to wait till he reaches the age of 21? Or, can an SM become a SSgt even though he is under 21, since that is an NCO grade and not an officer?

Thanks in advance.

HandsomeWalt_USMC

Anecdotal only, but I was a 20 year old Corporal in the Marines. I've known 19 year old NCOs in the Corps, the Army and the Air Force and a plethora of under 21 NCOs in the above. I've also known a bunch of Navy and Coast Guard Petty Officers who were under 21. If CAP follows Military customs of rank, and we generally do, there should be no issue with him being a CAP SSgt at 19.
HANDSOME SENDS

Semper Fidelis

"PRIDE IS CONTAGIOUS"

Eclipse

No issue, if, for whatever reason, he wants to come in as an NCO, so be it.

"That Others May Zoom"

Jester

I'd say there's no problem if the reg doesn't explicitly state otherwise.

I believe there's one in my wing that's under 21 but I'm not sure.

lordmonar

The only minimum age for NCO's is 18.....you got to be a senior member to be an NCO.

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

abdsp51

Why would he want to?  It's still not fully flushed out and there has yet to be any official sound reasoning for it.

Jester

Quote from: abdsp51 on July 04, 2018, 03:39:33 PM
Why would he want to?  It's still not fully flushed out and there has yet to be any official sound reasoning for it.
And the hijack begins.


Holding Pattern

Quote from: abdsp51 on July 04, 2018, 03:39:33 PM
Why would he want to?  It's still not fully flushed out and there has yet to be any official sound reasoning for it.

Among other things, NCO PME is available to CAP members who are NCOs.

abdsp51

Quote from: Jester on July 04, 2018, 04:48:25 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on July 04, 2018, 03:39:33 PM
Why would he want to?  It's still not fully flushed out and there has yet to be any official sound reasoning for it.
And the hijack begins.

Sorry if you can't accept the facts and reality of something.

abdsp51

Quote from: Holding Pattern on July 04, 2018, 04:54:04 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on July 04, 2018, 03:39:33 PM
Why would he want to?  It's still not fully flushed out and there has yet to be any official sound reasoning for it.

Among other things, NCO PME is available to CAP members who are NCOs.

Again why would someone want to when it's not flushed out and there is no reasoning for it?

Eclipse

Quote from: Holding Pattern on July 04, 2018, 04:54:04 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on July 04, 2018, 03:39:33 PM
Why would he want to?  It's still not fully flushed out and there has yet to be any official sound reasoning for it.

Among other things, NCO PME is available to CAP members who are NCOs.

It's also already available to him as a military NCO, of which he are one.

"That Others May Zoom"

Jester

Quote from: abdsp51 on July 04, 2018, 07:21:08 PM
Quote from: Jester on July 04, 2018, 04:48:25 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on July 04, 2018, 03:39:33 PM
Why would he want to?  It's still not fully flushed out and there has yet to be any official sound reasoning for it.
And the hijack begins.

Sorry if you can't accept the facts and reality of something.


You really got me on that one.

How about you just answer the question and move on?  If you don't know the answer, feel free to say nothing and move on. This "guy speaks out of his element and demands to be seen as credible" stuff died with Andy Rooney.

abdsp51

Quote from: Eclipse on July 04, 2018, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: Holding Pattern on July 04, 2018, 04:54:04 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on July 04, 2018, 03:39:33 PM
Why would he want to?  It's still not fully flushed out and there has yet to be any official sound reasoning for it.

Among other things, NCO PME is available to CAP members who are NCOs.

It's also already available to him as a military NCO, of which he are one.

Without knowing what branch he is in it may not be availble just yet.  Also which variation of E4 plays a role as well.

abdsp51

Quote from: Jester on July 04, 2018, 07:28:53 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on July 04, 2018, 07:21:08 PM
Quote from: Jester on July 04, 2018, 04:48:25 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on July 04, 2018, 03:39:33 PM
Why would he want to?  It's still not fully flushed out and there has yet to be any official sound reasoning for it.
And the hijack begins.

Sorry if you can't accept the facts and reality of something.


You really got me on that one.

How about you just answer the question and move on?  If you don't know the answer, feel free to say nothing and move on. This "guy speaks out of his element and demands to be seen as credible" stuff died with Andy Rooney.

Again can't accept the facts and want to make it personal. 

CAP_truth

Only thing needed is a CAPF2 plus proof of grade ex. DD214, promotion orders or military ID. signed by unit commander and sent to national HQ.
Cadet CoP
Wilson

Pace

The original question was quite specific and yet there was needless drift. PM sent.

OP's question was answered. We're done here. If the OP wants this thread reopened, PM me.
Lt Col, CAP