How often is a 2b issued and what exactally warrants one?

[mdickinson]

At any point during a 2B hearing, is it appropriate to get all red in the face and scream:"YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!"   Just curious.

In my experience as a wing director of safety, this type of hubris is usually displayed only during Mishap Investigation Board hearings. We once had a situation eerily similar to the one in the movie.

There was a full-blown official 2b hearing (as described below) held in these parts about 10 years ago, and I understand a similar situation happened there - tempers were high, and the board chairman eventually had to instruct the "prosecuting" legal officer to take a seat and simmer down.

[Ned]

If one is married or in the miliary, they are considered an adult, and no longer eligible to be a Cadet.  This kind of makes sense based on the restrictions we place on our Cadet members, it is unlikely that a person who is married or in the military would want to be placed under those restrictions anyway.  YMMV...

A brief off-topic clarification:

The concept of "cadethood" is unrelated to the concept of "adulthood."

The definition of the word "cadet" is that of a military student.  And one can certainly do that at almost any age.

The definition of the word "adult" (currently) in the US is anyone who has attained their 18th birthday.

Both CAP and the US Armed Forces have cadets below and above the current age of majority.


If Uncle Sam doesn't have a problem with cadets over the age of 18, I'm not sure why we should.

Now back to your 2b thread, already in progress.

[JohnKachenmeister]

If one is married or in the miliary, they are considered an adult, and no longer eligible to be a Cadet.  This kind of makes sense based on the restrictions we place on our Cadet members, it is unlikely that a person who is married or in the military would want to be placed under those restrictions anyway.  YMMV...

I agree, a Married or Military "cadet" is and adult and would now likely best serve CAP as an adult CAP Officer.

However, a 2b is often seen as a mark of dishonor...like a court marshal and less than honorable discharge.  There needs to be, in my opinion, a different form and procedure for those issues.

I agree, Sparky.  It is not intended to be, but it is so perceived.

[Hawk200]

However, a 2b is often seen as a mark of dishonor...like a court marshal and less than honorable discharge.  There needs to be, in my opinion, a different form and procedure for those issues.

I would agree. If you sign up, and your CAP commander says: "You're gone!", that isn't right.

I thought there was a more or less automatic transfer to senior. The way the reg reads, you'd think the person was an undesirable, the way the various reasons for automatic loss of membership is laid out.

[AlphaSigOU]

No automatic transfer of status from cadink to the dark side. If a cadet turns 21 and has not applied for senior membership by their birthday, they're dropped from the cadet rolls. If their cadet membership has not expired, they can switch over the balance of their membership to senior status at no charge.

[MIKE]

IIRC it used to automatically transfer to SM at 21, but this is no longer possible since fingerprints are now required for SM applicants.

[Skyray]

Whoever wrote this needs to inform National about that first sentence.  I am in total agreement with the remainder, having had the bitter privilege of experiencing it.  The first I found out about it was when my early renewal was sent back eight months after the 2C.

Actually, the "non-renewal option" has been removed. According to unofficial sources, commanders were submitting non-renewal actions without notifying the member. Since there was a time frame for appeals, very few of these non-renewed members were able to appeal because appeal period had expired.

The worst offender of this is your now intrepid leader who is trying to become "Dictator for Life."  Someone should go back and see how many non-renewals and 2Bs actually have his stamp on them.

[Sgt. Savage]

Now I have to ask, why does it really matter if a Cadet is married and/or in the Military, especially the military, aren't they usually the type of role model we want for cadets?

Because the regulation says it matters. As a combat vet, I wouldn't want a 18 year old grunt having oversight authority over my 14 year old kid. I can imagine the soldier / cadet getting 2b'd for violation of CPPT (hazing or some such thing).

It's not as if they can't continue to serve the program. They stepped up to the plate and made a commitment to serve, they need to be adults now, not kids.

Save the 2b for those who have wronged.

[ColonelJack]

The worst offender of this is your now intrepid leader who is trying to become "Dictator for Life."  Someone should go back and see how many non-renewals and 2Bs actually have his stamp on them.

He isn't going to be "Dictator for Life" because his push for no term limits for region/wing CCs and one extra term for the National CC was denied.

Jack

[Hawk200]

Now I have to ask, why does it really matter if a Cadet is married and/or in the Military, especially the military, aren't they usually the type of role model we want for cadets?

Because the regulation says it matters. As a combat vet, I wouldn't want a 18 year old grunt having oversight authority over my 14 year old kid. I can imagine the soldier / cadet getting 2b'd for violation of CPPT (hazing or some such thing).

I never thought about, but I'm glad someone did (and posted it for the rest us to consider as well). Many (but not all) people that have entered the military at those ages have a tendency to think they have all the answers, and need leadership then.

Saw some of that at an encampment recently, a former cadet now senior (and an Air Force Reservist) that had some trouble adjusting. Dipping and spitting in front of his flight (he was a tac officer), giving cadets rides in his POV, and a few other issues. Seemed to be the result of a mindset that now being military there was nothing else to learn.

It's not as if they can't continue to serve the program. They stepped up to the plate and made a commitment to serve, they need to be adults now, not kids.

A lesson that some people don't seem to have learned, and should. There is a time for everything, including moving forward.

Save the 2b for those who have wronged.

Can't argue that one.

[Skyray]

He isn't going to be "Dictator for Life" because his push for no term limits for region/wing CCs and one extra term for the National CC was denied.

Jack

And that makes you think the issue is dead?  Remember, this is the player that was relieved as Florida Wing Commander by General Bergman for carrying out personal vendettas and resurrected himself to go on and become National Commander while General Bergman became Colonel Bergman until the Air Force rescued him.  I don't think the fat lady has sung yet