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2007 Wreaths Across America

Started by badger bob, March 01, 2007, 01:10:52 PM

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LtCol White

As I said, thats why I think the flag is an acceptable substitute for the non-christian graves. They are remembered but not offended by placing the flag. It shows respect for their beliefs and is inclusive in the rememberence thoughts.
LtCol David P. White CAP   
HQ LAWG

Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska

Diplomacy - The ability to tell someone to "Go to hell" and have them look forward to making the trip.

Slim

Quote from: jimmydeanno on December 11, 2007, 01:16:14 PM
^Way to go Slim!  That is awesome! 

[off topic]Just out of curiosity, what was your single annual fundraiser that lost you $1,000?[/off topic]

Thanks!  Again, I can't take sole credit for doing the hard work.  Most of the clubs we went to meet on Tuesdays, which is our meeting night.  So, the boss went and sold sponsorships while I stayed and ran the shop for him.  I did make it to one presentation, and it was a pretty moving experience.  It was a Fraternal Order of Police meeting, that lodge covers about 6 different departments.  We gave the presentation, and passed out the materials then stood back.  They passed the hat around the room and we sold about 12, and had a few people come up afterwards to purchase them individually.  One of them was an officer who dropped a hundred dollar bill in front of us and all he wanted in return was my signature on the receipt.

[OT]  We did crowd control/etc at a large art fair every fall.  Four days, around the clock.  It usually took our unit and 2-3 others to have enough bodies to do everything.  We brought in as much as $2000 and as little as $1500 every year.  By the time we pay for food (which we provide), and kick some in to the other units, we usually brought in $1000-1500 every year.  They tried something differently this year, which failed miserably.  They gave us a booth to sell wreaths for the weekend, and the director of the fair was asking us about coming back by noon on Saturday.[/OT]


Slim

brasda91

Quote from: Slim on December 11, 2007, 07:25:38 PM

Thanks!  Again, I can't take sole credit for doing the hard work.  Most of the clubs we went to meet on Tuesdays, which is our meeting night.  So, the boss went and sold sponsorships while I stayed and ran the shop for him. 


I'm curious why you don't take your squadron to the presentations?  Or at least a few squared-away cadets?  I'm thinking that having a few cadets would show the clubs the respect they have in remembrance for the fallen.

Like I say, I'm not knocking your ways, I like what your squadron has done.  I will plan on trying to replicate the same thing and was wondering if having cadets attend the presentations would be a benefit.
Wade Dillworth, Maj.
Paducah Composite Squadron
www.kywgcap.org/ky011

Slim

Quote from: brasda91 on December 12, 2007, 01:58:31 PM
Quote from: Slim on December 11, 2007, 07:25:38 PM

Thanks!  Again, I can't take sole credit for doing the hard work.  Most of the clubs we went to meet on Tuesdays, which is our meeting night.  So, the boss went and sold sponsorships while I stayed and ran the shop for him. 


I'm curious why you don't take your squadron to the presentations?  Or at least a few squared-away cadets?  I'm thinking that having a few cadets would show the clubs the respect they have in remembrance for the fallen.

Like I say, I'm not knocking your ways, I like what your squadron has done.  I will plan on trying to replicate the same thing and was wondering if having cadets attend the presentations would be a benefit.

Honestly, our squadron is in a rebuilding phase at the moment.  We lost four cadets, including our cadet commander to college, had a few more drop out for personal reasons, and we were left with four participating cadets, three of whom were going through the Great Start/CBT program.  Our current cadet commander just got promoted to C/SSgt.  She's a sharp troop, but I wouldn't really call her squared away.  Plus, she was running the CBT program with our leadership officer.

Another minor consideration is that most of our seniors are in public safety.  I'm a firefighter/EMT, the commander is a paramedic, LeadO is a police dispatcher, another senior is a former EMS dispatcher, and we have another who just graduated as a paramedic with a fire science degree, and is currently job hunting.  Not saying others are not worthy, we also have a retired phone company employee, a 747 pilot, and an engineer for Chrysler in our ranks.  What helped us a lot with some of the groups is that we all share that common brotherhood of service, and we speak the same language.

Not saying we may not try sending a cadet or two out next year, we just didn't have a spare cadet or two to send.


Slim

brasda91

Quote from: Slim on December 12, 2007, 08:12:24 PM
Quote from: brasda91 on December 12, 2007, 01:58:31 PM
Quote from: Slim on December 11, 2007, 07:25:38 PM

Thanks!  Again, I can't take sole credit for doing the hard work.  Most of the clubs we went to meet on Tuesdays, which is our meeting night.  So, the boss went and sold sponsorships while I stayed and ran the shop for him. 


I'm curious why you don't take your squadron to the presentations?  Or at least a few squared-away cadets?  I'm thinking that having a few cadets would show the clubs the respect they have in remembrance for the fallen.

Like I say, I'm not knocking your ways, I like what your squadron has done.  I will plan on trying to replicate the same thing and was wondering if having cadets attend the presentations would be a benefit.

Honestly, our squadron is in a rebuilding phase at the moment.  We lost four cadets, including our cadet commander to college, had a few more drop out for personal reasons, and we were left with four participating cadets, three of whom were going through the Great Start/CBT program.  Our current cadet commander just got promoted to C/SSgt.  She's a sharp troop, but I wouldn't really call her squared away.  Plus, she was running the CBT program with our leadership officer.

Another minor consideration is that most of our seniors are in public safety.  I'm a firefighter/EMT, the commander is a paramedic, LeadO is a police dispatcher, another senior is a former EMS dispatcher, and we have another who just graduated as a paramedic with a fire science degree, and is currently job hunting.  Not saying others are not worthy, we also have a retired phone company employee, a 747 pilot, and an engineer for Chrysler in our ranks.  What helped us a lot with some of the groups is that we all share that common brotherhood of service, and we speak the same language.

Not saying we may not try sending a cadet or two out next year, we just didn't have a spare cadet or two to send.

Great.  Thanks.  I feel your pain.
Wade Dillworth, Maj.
Paducah Composite Squadron
www.kywgcap.org/ky011

Lancer

Greeting's All,

Just wanted to share our photos, here is a link to a photo gallery from today's Wreaths Across America Ceremony in Grand Rapids, MI at Chapel Hill Memorial Gardens.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mlcurtis69/WreathsAcrossAmerica2007ChapelHillMemorialGardens

Enjoy!

mikeylikey

What's up monkeys?

RRLE

Since CAP is mentioned, I thought you guys would want to see this story. It is part of Wreaths Across America.

"Ceremony in Lake Worth lagoon honors servicemen and women lost at sea" http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-1216ceremony,0,2140025.story

The places where CAP is mentioned:

QuoteRiviera Beach The small boat bobbed up and down in the rough sea. Still, Civil Air Patrol Col. S. Buddy Harris, Navy corpsman Tony Acosta and Marine veteran Ed Weber didn't budge. The three stood firmly at the stern of a Coast Guard utility boat while they tossed three wreaths in the water Saturday for those who lost their lives defending their country at sea.

QuoteIt was the first ceremony of its kind at sea for the men and women of the Lake Worth Inlet Coast Guard Station. The spot was chosen because of its significance for Merchant MarineƖ and Civil Air Patrol veterans, who lost comrades at seas in World War II and who are often overlooked at veterans ceremonies and memorials.

"We are talking about thousands who were killed at sea," said Civil Air Patrol Maj. Virginia Knudsen. "Civil Air Patrol pilots would fly off the coast of Lantana."

QuoteKnudsen said Merchant Mariners transported troops during World War II. The men were the targets of German submarines stationed off the coast of the United States. Civil Air Patrol pilots, often private pilots who understood the need for homeland security, flew off the eastern coast of Lantana scouting the area for German U-boats and alerting Coast Guard boats who would then bomb the enemy ships.

Harris, 80, was one of them. In 1941 he was a Civil Air Patrol submarine chaser, flying coastal patrols protecting the shore from Nazi U-boats. The submarine chasers located 173 submarines, dived on 57, dropped 82 bombs and sank 2 subs, officials said Saturday. Harris said it's a small piece of history that is often overlooked.

"This ceremony will stimulate remembering all of the great souls who gave their lives in defense of our country," Harris said. said. "And hopefully make youngsters aware of that."

Gunner C

I looked at the pictures and stories of several places across the country and they were great - except for the activities at Arlington.  It appeared that about half of the cadets were in BDUs.

I could see a small detail of cadets who were handing out wreaths in that uniform, but they were everywhere!

As a veteran, I'm VERY offended.

That is sacred ground.  With very few exceptions, the uniform there should have been service dress.  PERIOD.

That is not a place for grubbies.  PERIOD.  On such sacred ground only the best uniforms should be worn.

Wearing BDUs there shows a COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF MILITARY TRADITION.  PERIOD.

The wing commander (and possibly higher if complicit) should be relieved NOW.  PERIOD.

I'm considering quitting CAP right now.  This is the most offended I've been since I first put on a CAP uniform 40 years ago.  What the hell has happened to our organization?  Do these blisterheads understand what they've done?

Lt Col Hawkeye Pierce

davedove

Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I thought the active duty folks who perform the detail of putting the little flags on the graves wore BDU's for that duty.
David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Personnel/PD/Asst. Testing Officer
Ground Team Leader
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

ddelaney103

Quote from: Gunner C on December 17, 2007, 12:30:07 PM
I looked at the pictures and stories of several places across the country and they were great - except for the activities at Arlington.  It appeared that about half of the cadets were in BDUs.

I could see a small detail of cadets who were handing out wreaths in that uniform, but they were everywhere!

As a veteran, I'm VERY offended.

That is sacred ground.  With very few exceptions, the uniform there should have been service dress.  PERIOD.

That is not a place for grubbies.  PERIOD.  On such sacred ground only the best uniforms should be worn.

Wearing BDUs there shows a COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF MILITARY TRADITION.  PERIOD.

The wing commander (and possibly higher if complicit) should be relieved NOW.  PERIOD.

I'm considering quitting CAP right now.  This is the most offended I've been since I first put on a CAP uniform 40 years ago.  What the hell has happened to our organization?  Do these blisterheads understand what they've done?

Lt Col Hawkeye Pierce

The Third US Infantry (The Old Guard - perhaps you've heard of them?) plants flags before Memorial Day in ACU's (http://www.army.mil/oldguard/photos.htm Check the entry "Flags in 2007" under the May 2007 listing.

Once you've had the Regimental Commander and the commander of the Military District of Washington relieved for their grave offense, get back to us.

Until then, find a locker to stow your attitude.  I have misgivings about the WAA program, but the Cadets willing to give up a Saturday to plant wreaths in miserable winter weather don't deserve to be slapped around by cranky, uninformed veterans such as yourself.

Lancer

Quote from: ddelaney103 on December 17, 2007, 02:53:25 PM
Once you've had the Regimental Commander and the commander of the Military District of Washington relieved for their grave offense, get back to us.

...nice play on words.  ;)

Quote from: ddelaney103 on December 17, 2007, 02:53:25 PM
I have misgivings about the WAA program...

Care to share? I'd actually like to hear what you have to say that could possibly be negative about this event.

ddelaney103

Quote from: Lancer on December 17, 2007, 03:14:37 PM
Care to share? I'd actually like to hear what you have to say that could possibly be negative about this event.

It's back on pg 1, but I'll recap here.

The cemeteries made the decision to only place wreaths on grave sites that have a Christian marking or on marking on the headstones (http://www.wreaths-across-america.org/faqs.html - bottom of page).  This implies a couple of assumptions:

All Christians and non denominationals are OK with Christmas wreaths.

All non Christians are not.

Both of these might be a bit rash.  I approve of honoring veterans, but have misgivings with honor veterans differently based on religion.

ColonelJack

Quote from: ddelaney103 on December 17, 2007, 02:53:25 PM
The Third US Infantry (The Old Guard - perhaps you've heard of them?) plants flags before Memorial Day in ACU's (http://www.army.mil/oldguard/photos.htm Check the entry "Flags in 2007" under the May 2007 listing.

While I agree with much of what you said, I also take some exception to wearing anything but service dress at Arlington.  (Sorry, it's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.)  A military cemetery is simply not the place for utility uniforms, and the fact that the Third Infantry did it in ACUs doesn't make it right.

My opinion, free and worth what it cost.  Your mileage may vary.

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

jimmydeanno

I think it is absolutely disgraceful.  The last time I was at Arlington, the gentlemen that was mowing the lawn was wearing shorts and a t-shirt. What a disgrace - he should have been fired.








I can't believe that people would recommend/demand that those laying thousands of sap covered, needle covered, dirty wreaths trecking through the snow, should wear their Sunday best.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

Slim

#35
Quote from: jimmydeanno on December 17, 2007, 05:42:05 PM
I think it is absolutely disgraceful.  The last time I was at Arlington, the gentlemen that was mowing the lawn was wearing shorts and a t-shirt. What a disgrace - he should have been fired.








I can't believe that people would recommend/demand that those laying thousands of sap covered, needle covered, dirty wreaths trecking through the snow, should wear their Sunday best.

What we told people is to wear whichever uniform they had that was proper, including jackets.  If they had the proper outerwear to be warm enough in service dress, that was fine.  If people couldn't do that, we told them to wear BDUs.  Lacking proper outerwear for that uniform, we told people to dress in layers underneath their BDU shirt.

Our bottom line was that we wanted people to be in a proper uniform, and warm.  We did everything-including the ceremony-outside, with temps in the low 20s, 20 MPH winds, and blowing snow.  Surprisingly enough, I did not see one civilian jacket on any CAP member there.

Edit:  By the way, the director at our cemetery told us it was ok to put a wreath on any grave, regardless of religion.  Of course, we were only dealing with Christian and Jewish graves, not sure what would have happened with others.


Slim

jimmydeanno

Chris,

I think that what you guys did was absolutely fabulous.  Honoring American veterans - that was the purpose.  Having the cadets get out there and honor those who sacrificed themselves for this wonderful country.  Thank you for taking the time to do this - I appreciate it.

Jimmy.

-------------------------
Of course my comment was completely tounge-in-cheek because I am realistic and wouldn't expect those that were doing a work detail to wear a tuxedo regardless of whether they had one or not.

I brought this thread up to a friend of mine last night and we both strongly agreed that some of the comments here are what are disgraceful, not what the wreath layers did.  There is no disgrace in honoring veterans.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

davedove

Quote from: ColonelJack on December 17, 2007, 04:56:21 PM
Quote from: ddelaney103 on December 17, 2007, 02:53:25 PM
The Third US Infantry (The Old Guard - perhaps you've heard of them?) plants flags before Memorial Day in ACU's (http://www.army.mil/oldguard/photos.htm Check the entry "Flags in 2007" under the May 2007 listing.

While I agree with much of what you said, I also take some exception to wearing anything but service dress at Arlington.  (Sorry, it's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.)  A military cemetery is simply not the place for utility uniforms, and the fact that the Third Infantry did it in ACUs doesn't make it right.

My opinion, free and worth what it cost.  Your mileage may vary.

Jack

I would agree if it were a ceremony at a single location within Arlington.  That way, the area could have been prepared so that the elements weren't such a big factor.  But for an activity like this, walking all over the cemetery, I think the BDU's would be more appropriate.

Of course, this is all just our opinions.
David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Personnel/PD/Asst. Testing Officer
Ground Team Leader
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

LtCol White

There is a nice article and video of the ceremony on the USAF webpage. Video has comment from Gen Courter and one of the younger cadets.

www.af.mil

LtCol David P. White CAP   
HQ LAWG

Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska

Diplomacy - The ability to tell someone to "Go to hell" and have them look forward to making the trip.

LtCol White

Quote from: Gunner C on December 17, 2007, 12:30:07 PM
I looked at the pictures and stories of several places across the country and they were great - except for the activities at Arlington.  It appeared that about half of the cadets were in BDUs.

I could see a small detail of cadets who were handing out wreaths in that uniform, but they were everywhere!

As a veteran, I'm VERY offended.

That is sacred ground.  With very few exceptions, the uniform there should have been service dress.  PERIOD.

That is not a place for grubbies.  PERIOD.  On such sacred ground only the best uniforms should be worn.

Wearing BDUs there shows a COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF MILITARY TRADITION.  PERIOD.

The wing commander (and possibly higher if complicit) should be relieved NOW.  PERIOD.

I'm considering quitting CAP right now.  This is the most offended I've been since I first put on a CAP uniform 40 years ago.  What the hell has happened to our organization?  Do these blisterheads understand what they've done?

Lt Col Hawkeye Pierce

I AM VERY OFFENDED by your attitude towards the cadets participating in this activity.

As pointed out, Reg Military performs the same tasks in BDU's on many occasions.

LOOK at the weather the day this was done. Blues are HARDLY appropriate for spending hours in the cold and wet walking through the grass to put out these wreaths (So we throw safety out of the window?).

The cadets are performing a work task. They are NOT acting as an Honor Guard. The Ceremony at the USAF Memorial WAS done in blues by the Honor Guard. And an EXTREMELY nice job at that!

I think your tone and attitude towards this activity is highly uncalled for and unprofessional.

Did YOU participate in honoring the veterans in any of the wreath layings with cadets?
LtCol David P. White CAP   
HQ LAWG

Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska

Diplomacy - The ability to tell someone to "Go to hell" and have them look forward to making the trip.