Ranger 3rd Class

[TheGooseLover]

Good Morning All! I have a question about the Ranger 3rd Class Qualificaton. I have no rangers at my home squadron and the only one I know is 2nd class, which can't sign off new rangers. How would I find someone qualified to sign off my Ranger 3rd Class qualification within my wing? Thanks!

[Luis R. Ramos]

Ranger is not a Civil Air Patrol specialty.

You "may" be qualified as a Ranger if you participate in the Hawk Mountain Encampment, but this is only for Pennsylvania Wing.

[TheGooseLover]

But the Quals Sheet (look it up) says a ranger 1st class or higher can sign it off, that, to me, implies that anyone Ranger 1st class or up can sign my sheet off, yes?

[Гугл переводчик]

Hawk Mountain is a NCSA, and you can only get the "ranger" titles at this event.

[Spam]

Cadet,

The term "Ranger" is entirely a locally used one by several Wings, but not by all (or, I suspect, a majority).  "Ranger" in CAP context means absolutely nothing to most of us, and different things to different Wings. I won't accept signoffs by anyone who doesn't meet National CAP standards for example and I don't recognize any of those other quals (I have a hard enough time verifying transfers who much of the time have pencil-whipped quals any ways).


Best advice I have: ask within your Wing, not here. All you'll get here is differing opinions.


V/R,
Spam

[Luis R. Ramos]

Maybe quals sheet for Hawk Mountain, which again do not apply out of Pennsylvania may say "Ranger 3rd class."

The quals sheet that really mean anything for any wing are for Emergency Services, and are Ground Team Member 3, or GTM3, Ground Team Member 2 or GTM 2, and Ground Team Member 1, or GTM1. I am an evaluator for GTM3.

You check the quals. Nowhere do they say Ranger 3rd Class.

https://www.capnhq.gov/CAP.OPSQuals.Web/EmergencyServices/SQTR.aspx?print=1

[TheGooseLover]

https://pawg.cap.gov/sites/default/files/Ranger3rdclass14.pdf

[Гугл переводчик]

https://pawg.cap.gov/sites/default/files/Ranger3rdclass14.pdf

Notice how its from PAWG, not NHQ.

[Luis R. Ramos]

As Rosinsky, Spam, and myself have told you, these quals apply only to a special activity and state. One. Only one. Pennsylvania. What you are failing to see are the quals under this heading:

NATIONAL EMERGENCY SERVICES GROUND TEAM MEMBER 3 REQUIREMENTS

These are the only quals that apply to all Wings.

[Garibaldi]

The only real thing that qualification does for you is denote your participation in a certain aspect of the course, the ability to sew a patch on your uniform, and to have a higher self esteem than your peers. It does not confer any kind of special status among ground teams, NESA/GSAR graduates, or any kind of advanced SQTR certification.

There is no one who can sign you off as an advanced Ranger besides anyone who has attended Hawk Mountain. You would have to go to Hawk Mountain to attain a higher rating. Or find someone local to you with the Ranger 1st Class certification.

If I sound a bit harsh against the HMRS program, it is because I've never been a fan of it. I find it inflates egos where it shouldn't, and promotes an atmosphere of negative superiority. I've known cadets who have come back with attitude problems and have gone away from the ES program when they discover the HMRS does not have much to do with real world operations.

[Panzerbjorn]

As Rosinsky, Spam, and myself have told you, these quals apply only to a special activity and state. One. Only one. Pennsylvania. What you are failing to see are the quals under this heading:

I think you missed the memo.  North Carolina is another Wing that has a rather thriving Ranger program.  It's also done at MERSAR as well.  IJS.

Ranger certification is really more an above and beyond kind of program than it is a qualification program.  The fact of the matter is that by the time you reach Ranger 3rd Class, you're GTM qualified as well.  You've just learned extra skills above and beyond that required for a GTM qualification.

I write this post during a Ranger Training Weekend out here, and the Ranger certifications are the same given out at HMRS.  So, no, it doesn't specifically require you to attend HMRS to obtain them.

[Spam]

I think I DID recognize that several Wings have Ranger programs:

... locally used one by several Wings, but not by all (or, I suspect, a majority). 

I have a C/LT in my unit here in GA with NCWG Tabs at the moment, and generally support the program. Time was, many Wings did but discontinued them (Maryland had a thriving one up through the 90s, for example), as some Wings/Regions also had SAR schools equivalent to Hawk (e.g. Pathfinder for NCR, held in MOWG at Ft. Lost In The Woods/Leonard Wood MO).


Continuing training is always a Good Thing (well, usually). Its important to recognize that the term "Ranger" is (a) not a nationally recognized qualification and (b) Ranger requirements from one Wing which does it to another are different, thus the right answer is to ask for YOUR Wings requirements specifically.


Back to the cadet/original poster:  good on you for seeking additional training beyond your GTM3, 2, and 1. Still suggest you ask within your own Wing to avoid confusion. Best of luck!


V/R
Spam

[Spam]

Note (mandatory thread uniform content!):

I never gave my C/LT any crap over wearing his Ranger tabs from NC Wing, even though we have no Georgia Wing supplement authorizing their wear. Recommend that all you other unit/CCs give some slack there as well. This is how we pay our people for seeking advanced training.

(now, back to learning French from "The Returned" season premiere)...

V/R,
Spam

[Disenchanted]

I would like to clarify about the Pathfinder School that was held at Fort Leonard Wood, MO.
It was a SAR School that emphasized "the realities of SAR in the Missouri Wing".  You did receive a patch for your uniform and a shoulder chord.
It was stated from the very first day that this training was never to create some super ES trooper or create arrogance toward others.  You were
to take the knowledge and teach others at your unit. 
I don't see this approach from the "Ranger Program" from PA.
The Pathfinder School has been restarted at Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri Wing.  The new school is based on the precepts of the old school as I understand.

[LSThiker]

e.g. Pathfinder for NCR,

Pathfinder was specifically an MOWG activity.  It was never an NCR program, although other members in the NCR did attend it.  The NCR "Ranger" program was the NCR Special Services Corps, which stemmed from the Iowa Wing Special Services Corps and later became National Blue Beret. 

[Spam]

I stand corrected, and thank you.  When I commanded St. Louis 1 (during the floods of 93) when it was run by LTC Scott Lawson, I was a supporter of the original program, and remain generally supportive of such programs.

I've seen "attitude" in equal proportions from school/program graduates and "regular" curriculum graduates alike. I'm neutral on the attitude issue in terms of source/blame. I think human nature is to blame.

Again, good on any of you for seeking additional/recurrency training. (and, thanks for the update, teammates).


V/R,
Spam

[Spam]

PS.

"Disenchanted", noted this is your first post... welcome, friend. Thanks for the input. I lurked for years without commenting, myself.

Why such a handle?  Glass half full, teammate!


V/R
Spam

[Luis R. Ramos]

Spam-

He was referring to me not you. Although I read your post, since the Wing I know most with the Ranger program is Pennsylvania, I did post on purpose just Pennsylvania. And he corrected me. In fact I said "only one."

[Flying Pig]

Tabbed or Scrolled.... Tabbed and Scrolled?  That is the question.  They have women Rangers now too. 

[Garibaldi]

Tabbed or Scrolled.... Tabbed and Scrolled?  That is the question.  They have women Rangers now too.

Tab (black with yellow lettering and trim)is what you get for completing the program, but not everyone who completes the Ranger program gets the tab. The scroll is for assignment to one of the Ranger battalions, I believe. It's stylized and specific, red trim on a black scroll, with white lettering.

I should mention my olde cadet unit had 2 unit patches. The normal one was styled after the Ranger tab, white on black, and the advanced patch for completing advanced GT tasks was a red scroll with black lettering, modeled after the Ranger scroll. It wasn't easy to get, because some of the tasks were very daunting. Night navigation of 3,000 meters, day navigation of same, rappelling into a 250' sinkhole and ascending out, rappelling down a 750' cliff among other tasks not applicable to today's SAR/GT missions.

And I said something earlier about creating an atmosphere of arrogance and superiority. I should mention that we WERE the best in GAWG in the 80s. We didn't just feel superior, we WERE superior. It wasn't arrogance since we knew full well we were the best. We honestly felt we were the trendsetters, the unit everyone should look up to. Or so we thought then.

Soooooo, I'm a hypocrite.

If a wing or region wants to sponsor an advanced school and call it a Ranger school, that's fine. More power to you. I realize this thread has drifted way off topic to the OP's question and he probably went away scratching his head and wondering how that happened, he just asked a simple question, and look what happened. My bad, as the kids say, but this is CAPTalk and YMMV and people get butthurt all the time.

My feelings on the PAWG program are what they are. I've seen the results and I don't like them. But I'm not going to begrudge anyone anymore who wants to go.

Same team, Farva, same team. We all have a common goal to accomplish.