Saluting while in a group

[The Happy Sergeant]

ok, so i know we've all had a time when we are in a group of airmen and NCOs, and all of a sudden there is a 1st leiutenant in our midst. the regs are strangely silent about what to do in this situation. i've heard that everboy salute, and i've also heard that the highest ranking cadet salutes. which is it???

[abdsp51]

AFMAN36-2203

[Flying Pig]

Highest ranking salutes, the others come to attention until the salute is returned.    At least that was SOP when I was a cadet and in the miltiary

[ol'fido]

abdsp51 is right in that you should look it up yourself to find the right answer, however, I'm going to answer with MHO because we have had this come up several years at encampments over the years. If you are in an organized unit(flight, element, squadron,etc.) or a formal work detail and an officer approaches, then the cadet in charge of the unit or detail would render the proper courtesies. If, however, you are in a random group of cadets just "hanging out" so to speak, everyone would render the proper courtesies simultaneously. When the officer walks up is probably not the time to suddenly have to decide "who is senior?"

[ol'fido]

Hey, look. Two replies posted almost simultaneously with two different answers. That reinforces the "go look it up" strategy>

[PHall]

Okay, here's the Retired AF SNCO view on this.

If you're in a formation and you're marching somewhere, then whoever is drilling you renders the salute.
If it's just a bunch of airmen walking together, then you all individually salute.

This is per AFI 36-2203.

[Duke Dillio]

The way that I have usually seen it is that the senior member of the group calls the group to "Attention" and renders a salute.  If you are in a gaggle walking toward an officer, you spread out about 10 meters apart and salute as you pass...   

[JoeTomasone]

How I learned it..  (boy, I hate to use that phrase..)


In formation:

The commander/leader of the formation calls it to attention and salutes for the formation.


In an unorganized group outdoors (uncovered area)

The first person to notice the officer (who is superior in grade to those IN the group) calls the area to attention, and all turn to face the officer, and all render salutes.


In an unorganized group indoors or outdoors in a covered area

The first person to notice the officer (who is superior in grade to those IN the group) calls the area to attention and (alone) offers a verbal greeting.


In a room

The first person to notice the officer (who is superior in grade to those IN the group) calls the room to attention.  Exception: A class/meeting/briefing is in progress.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Duke-

That thing about "spreading out" is not necessary. I have heard and read on several issues from cadets and former servicemen they did that to pain the officer, who as he passed several enlisted saluting him, he would have had to return the salute each time.

Oh, you devil dog! You know that!!! That is why you put the  icon!!!!!

OP-

Heed the answers from this thread. If you are in a group in a work detail, formation, etc. the person in charge may call the group to attention (if in formation) or not (if in a work detail) and salute for everyone. If not in a formation, such as "chilin," shooting the breeze, or similar, all salute.

This is discussed over and over in official books from the Department of Defense, specific military branches, and CAP. Yet the question comes up again and again. Is it that people are not reading anymore, or is it that computers and videogames are taking out the ability to interpret written communications? Sorry, as a Library Teacher I could not hold that back! 

Flyer

[NIN]

There is a lot of discussion on this subject.

Remember that salutes are a greeting.

Would you NOT exchange a greeting between people in those circumstances?

(ie. would MSgt Smith not acknowledge 2Lt Jones just cuz 2Lt Jones is walking with Captain Adams?  If you'd say "hello" to someone in a circumstance, chances are you're in a circumstance  where a salute should should be rendered)

ETA: People get all wrapped around the axle on this. If folks would just relax and "go easy" and treat it like a greeting not a kabuki dance, this would be a non-issue.

Matter of fact, generally, in the active duty military, it is a non-issue. You very, very seldom get crap for saluting, but you'll always get crap for not saluting.  So just salute and Drive On, Airborne!

[RogueLeader]

Airborne!

ALL THE WAY, SIR!!!

[LGM30GMCC]

In a room

The first person to notice the officer (who is superior in grade to those IN the group) calls the room to attention.  Exception: A class/meeting/briefing is in progress.

This can vary on AD and by service, and even section by section.

For example: In my scheduling section I was a Captain in charge of X number of Lieutenants. They didn't even stand or pretend to stand when I came out of my office and into their work area. This is what I expected of them since I would go in and out many times a day. We didn't stand for anyone O-4 and below. We stood for O-5s (though our Sq/CC was faster at gesturing for us to sit than we could stand). We called the area for the Deputy Group Commander (O-5) and any O-6 or higher.

In a tactical squadron where the offices of the flight commanders and their work area was mixed in with their squadron commander, they would stand if the sq/CC or DO directly approached them or their office, unless they had been told not to.

In customer service oriented offices (Finance, TMO, etc), they will generally have someone standing behind a counter and the rest in desks behind the counter who will not stand unless they are being addressed by, or addressing an officer. If they just have desks they are sitting scattered around the one addressing the officer will stand while the others work.

Now you get into a training environment with lots of airmen and things change again. I walk into the Security Forces classroom to teach them codes familiarization and they call the room to attention. The first time they did it I nearly whipped around to see what O-6 was walking behind me. The TSgt I was teaching with whispered  to me 'Uh, sir, that's for you. It sure as hell isn't for me.'

[NIN]

As an aside: I think CAP does a really crappy job of letting cadets know how things are in the "real world" or either the AF or the other services.

Stuff like "you don't march everyplace you go" (really disappointing to me), "officers are pretty casual in the work environment" or even "Your work environment is just that: a work environment. The service is not encampment beyond basic and tech school."

So cadets get way, way, way wrapped up in this minutae, and those of us who have spent 6-10 years in a  "for a living" status are like "dudes, bigger fish to fry. Really.."

[caphabit]

The way that I have usually seen it is that the senior member of the group calls the group to "Attention" and renders a salute.  If you are in a gaggle walking toward an officer, you spread out about 10 meters apart and salute as you pass...   

So...you spread out 33 feet apart?  Must have big sidewalks. 

[Duke Dillio]

That would be about 5-10 meters in line...  Means that the guy in front of you is about 15-20 feet away so that the officer has just enough time to drop his salute, take two or three steps and then salute again...  For the uninitiated, this is a long time joke from BITD when men were men and sheep ran scared...

[Luis R. Ramos]

My only encampment, in 1999, we had to wait always in the parking lot for 15 min or so  when we took the cadets to lunch before going in or for pick up. The cadets always would spread out. One day an Army officer came by. You should have seen his expression! He was very much "What the H is going on?!!!!" He held his hand up, as there was no time for him to answer the salute properly. It was a "salute gauntlet" as there were cadets strung out along 20 feet or so. 

Flyer

[LGM30GMCC]

That would be about 5-10 meters in line...  Means that the guy in front of you is about 15-20 feet away so that the officer has just enough time to drop his salute, take two or three steps and then salute again...  For the uninitiated, this is a long time joke from BITD when men were men and sheep ran scared...

If I saw a group of airman doing this on purpose I might just stop the first one, and not return the salute until they have all bunched back up. Playing games like this and purposefully being a jerk can get you in some uncomfortable territory. Especially since the front airman isn't supposed to drop his salute until I drop mine.

[PHall]

That would be about 5-10 meters in line...  Means that the guy in front of you is about 15-20 feet away so that the officer has just enough time to drop his salute, take two or three steps and then salute again...  For the uninitiated, this is a long time joke from BITD when men were men and sheep ran scared...

If I saw a group of airman doing this on purpose I might just stop the first one, and not return the salute until they have all bunched back up. Playing games like this and purposefully being a jerk can get you in some uncomfortable territory. Especially since the front airman isn't supposed to drop his salute until I drop mine.

I would be finding out who their First Sergeant(s) are so I could tell them what their airman are up to.
I'm sure the First Sergeants would be so pleased!

[LGM30GMCC]

I try to take care of things myself to keep 'em out of a little bit of trouble. Though sometimes it depends on how much time and what else I'm doing.

Once had a group of SF Amn on my Missile Alert Facility who completely blew me off after I asked them nicely to help unload the large amount of food and linens we were bringing out from base to primarily support their needs.

I let our facility manager know about the situation and that I was displeased about it. When I came top-side the next day that was the cleanest building I have seen in quite some time.

[J2H]

Everyone always messes with the cops lol, I gave a "Hey what's up", a short salute and waved 'em on when I was on the gates

[NIN]

As I mentioned, usually on AD its not that big of a deal. You just do it, probably 50+ times a day. Its like going to the bathroom: You stop thinking about it.

Then again, I was in Army Aviation. You'd salute the CO for sure on the way across the company parking lot, maybe your LT when you saw him the first time that day, and almost never one of the warrant officers unless you were outside the airfield fence ("on post").  You might actually get a talking to from one of the warrants if you were a little *too* enthusiastic about saluting.

Contrast that with the National Guard, where salutes were very, very, very seldom exchanged, mostly because in my unit, an aviation maintenance unit, we very infrequently encountered our officers "outside" of the armory.  And you never saluted on the flight line side of the hangar. 

I will admit to being a bit of a pain to some of the officers, however.  One of the smoke break areas was outside the front door of the armory, right next to the flag pole.  There would be 2-3 officers and enlisted out there grabbing a smoke, and I'd decide I needed something out of my car in the parking lot.  <salute> "Good afternoon, gentlemen!"  They'd *always* have their cigarettes in their right hands. *Always*.  <*snicker*>