Upset by How People Treat Us

[mikeylikey]

^ Ya.....your SQD Commander obviously feels that your SQD already has enough members.   

Ask him or her to show you what regulations say you can't wear your uniform to recruiting events.  Also look at the beginning of 39-1, Schools are not listed as prohibited places where you should not wear your uniform.

[Major Carrales]

Got a problem with that?

I guess it's the way I've been indoctrinated taught by my former squadron commander.   

Almost everything (if not everything) we ask to do it turned into non-CAP activites, and thus, uniforms can't be worn.  I said what I said because doing such has been asked numerous times (in my squadron), and it's always gotten the same response.  "It's not an official CAP activity.  No uniforms."

We've passed up a ton of outstanding recruiting events because my squadron commander didn't deem it appropriate enough to be a "CAP activity" (and there was nothing wrong with these places in which we'd ask to recruit - most of which included schools).

Sorry if I came across with an attitude (or anything else), I was simply expressing what I was indoctrinated taught.

No problem.  The thing is the Squadron Command varies.  I believe in a very "open" form of CAP.  I call it the "WHOLE CAP" Approach.  An approach where we embrace the ideals, Missions and Core Values of CAP and move them into the realm of the community.  Your former commander must hold an opposite view.

We are the Communities we Serve and those Communities are us.  All CAP is LOCAL.  I believe you have to be there at activities "as CAP" in order for the community to know what it, CAP, is.

This has been our major problem, the idea that CAP is some sort "of secret."

Fact is our Avition Branches (whatever you choose to call them) should strive to be the nucleus of the local General Aviation community, holding and fostering activities that benefit all the area aviators.  The Cadet Program should be one of service to "Community, State and Nation" as the oath says, working with Scouts and JROTC (not against it, in rivalry with or in a vacuum from) and free from that ever so evident "inferiority complex" that keeps us cowering the the shadows instead of illumanating the value of CAP to our communities.

Your recruiting has to be "visible."  Uniforms have that fact.  That is why there are many "Squadron Approved" functions where permission is asked for and given, some times even from higher levels, for these activities to show "CAP as CAP at its best."

Now, that is my vision for command in my sphere of influence.  Others may disagree, however a well regulated use of the CAP uniform does not mean we never wear it for "CAP activities," it means that we do so with pride, honor and the diginity that comes with the proper ware of said uniform.

[PhoenixRisen]

^ Ya.....your SQD Commander obviously feels that your SQD already has enough members.   

Ask him or her to show you what regulations say you can't wear your uniform to recruiting events.  Also look at the beginning of 39-1, Schools are not listed as prohibited places where you should not wear your uniform.

Many a person has tried (including parents).  This is one of the reasons why I got the idea to set-up a new squadron.  I can happily say that I know for a fact I won't have these problems with my school squadron.

My commander (also my teacher) wants us to be the most visible thing in the city.  He's more hyped about the squadron than I am (and I didn't think that was possible).  He jumps at the idea of any activity, be it an activity that gives Cadets a learning opportunity, a recruiting opportunity or it just plain fun.  (And our squadron's not even official, yet!)

Like it was said previously - I guess it depends on the specific commander's approach on the subject.

[Major Carrales]

My commander (also my teacher) wants us to be the most visible thing in the city.  He's more hyped about the squadron than I am (and I didn't think that was possible).  He jumps at the idea of any activity, be it an activity that gives Cadets a learning opportunity, a recruiting opportunity or it just plain fun.  (And our squadron's not even official, yet!)

Like it was said previously - I guess it depends on the specific commander's approach on the subject.

Marching in "squares and circles" only goes so far as part of service to "Community, State and Nation."  Yes, Drill and other "pure cadet" stuff does loads in teaching Cadets how to lead and follow; however we have got to, and I mean GOT TO, help cadets grow by giving them opportunities to use those lesson and apply what they have learned.  If not, the "LEADERSHIP" is empty rethoric. 

I believe that, when given a well regulated supervised chance, at all cadets should be given a leadership.  We should be giving them the opportunity to grow as citizens via service as citizens.

[PhoenixRisen]

Marching in "squares and circles" only goes so far as part of service to "Community, State and Nation."

And this is exactly one of the complaints I hear a good amount of the time (and one of the reasons why most of our Cadets leave after a year or so).  I'll tell ya, though - it's not only the recruiting events that we've asked for that were shot down.  We've talked to (and even organized) a good amount of events, but they never make it farther than the squadron commander.  (Mind you, these were reasonabe events for which we had the resources and the people, which is why I'm constantly curious as to why they never get approval.)

[Major Carrales]

Marching in "squares and circles" only goes so far as part of service to "Community, State and Nation."

And this is exactly one of the complaints I hear a good amount of the time (and one of the reasons why most of our Cadets leave after a year or so).  I'll tell ya, though - it's not only the recruiting events that we've asked for that were shot down.  We've talked to (and even organized) a good amount of events, but they never make it farther than the squadron commander.  (Mind you, these were reasonabe events for which we had the resources and the people, which is why I'm constantly curious as to why they never get approval.)

I'm trying to look into why you commander would behave in such a way.

Most of the time those sorts of events are kaboshed because of lack of personnel.  There needs to be significant CAP Officer supervision...many time not just one CAP Officer. Some commanders see these events as "ho-hum, more stuff for me to do."  This is when the improtance of a set of staff officers is important.  Takes the  edge off of Command.

Have a project officer assigned that can lead up the effort.

[addo1]

Marching in "squares and circles" only goes so far as part of service to "Community, State and Nation."

And this is exactly one of the complaints I hear a good amount of the time (and one of the reasons why most of our Cadets leave after a year or so).  I'll tell ya, though - it's not only the recruiting events that we've asked for that were shot down.  We've talked to (and even organized) a good amount of events, but they never make it farther than the squadron commander.  (Mind you, these were reasonable events for which we had the resources and the people, which is why I'm constantly curious as to why they never get approval.)

  I understand you there... I, as recruiter, have had a lot of events we could have stuff at, but they never turn out.. Sort of disappointing.

[proveritas]

Well, you have to try to look at it from the adults' position too. If they see recruiting drives as just a way to get more "kids", they just may not be interested if they aren't directly involved with the cadet program. Are your recruiting efforts directed mainly toward potenial cadets or both cadets and seniors?

[addo1]

Well, you have to try to look at it from the adults' position too. If they see recruiting drives as just a way to get more "kids", they just may not be interested if they aren't directly involved with the cadet program. Are your recruiting efforts directed mainly toward potenial cadets or both cadets and seniors?

I recruit both.  They both are needed to have a succesfull squadron. 

Well, you have to try to look at it from the adults' position too. If they see recruiting drives as just a way to get more "kids", they just may not be interested if they aren't directly involved with the cadet program. Are your recruiting efforts directed mainly toward potenial cadets or both cadets and seniors?

  Also, Major is a adult as well, lol... 

[Major Carrales]

Well, you have to try to look at it from the adults' position too. If they see recruiting drives as just a way to get more "kids", they just may not be interested if they aren't directly involved with the cadet program. Are your recruiting efforts directed mainly toward potenial cadets or both cadets and seniors?

My recruiting efforts are gears to those that wish to serve CAP as CAP Officer and Cadets.  Being that ours is a Composite Squadron we cherish both.

[proveritas]

Also, Major is a adult as well, lol... 

Reading usernames might be a good idea before posting. 

Other than staff shortage, why would a cmdr keep shooting down recruiting ideas?  I'm not asking about YOUR squadron specifically, just in a general sense, but provided you had the staff, it seems a no-brainer to go out and sell your squadron.

[jimmydeanno]

^Doesn't sound like that problem will be fixed soon.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, we have just been offered a chance to do some recruiting.  However, we don't have enough people so I declined the offer."

Sometimes you need to put things on the back burner to fill some seats.

[LtCol Hooligan]

I know as a commander, I am trying to get my members to put a strategy behind recruiting.  Recently I have seen a lot of shoot by the hip recruiting drives with creative ways to bring in new members.  I almost never tell the members no, don't do that, but I am trying to tell them to develop a strategy around recruiting so it returns the most bang for the buck.  Perhaps your commander wants to see a strategy as well so there are not a bunch of one off recruiting events that burn people out when it's time for the big one.  It might be worth forming a committee to look at all the recruiting options over the next 6 months or year and put a strategy behind the effort.  If it was me, I would start with a list of all the activities and then list pros and cons about each one.  Rank them in order of which ones come first and turn your proposal in.  I also like the idea of having a project officer assigned to each event.  I believe this should be a cadet and an officer so both sides of the camp have a stake in the recruiting activities you choose.  Just my 2 cents.

[♠SARKID♠]

^Doesn't sound like that problem will be fixed soon.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, we have just been offered a chance to do some recruiting.  However, we don't have enough people so I declined the offer."

Sometimes you need to put things on the back burner to fill some seats.

Sounds like a Catch-22 if I ever heard one

[proveritas]

^ Yeah. But how many people does it really take to set up *a* table at an event and stand there handing out promo stuff and talking to people?

[MIKE]

Drifiting...

[a2capt]

...well, the opposite happened to me a couple weeks ago. Usually it's snide remarks about Boy Scouts or such, but in one case, a sentry thanked us for the service we give to the youth, upon letting us pass, entering on base.

Totally unexpected.

[gistek]

I've run into a lot of uninformed and misinformed people.

Here are some of my stock responses:

"...Fake Military"
As I pinch myself I say, "Nope, I'm real. And CAP is the Civilian Auxilliary of the U.S. Airforce." Then I hand them my CAP business card. (Actually it has my CAP info on one side and my work info on the other.)

"Boy Scouts in the Air"
"That's just one of the activities our Venture Scout unit gets to do."

"What's the difference between CAP and the Boy Scouts?"
"For the Boy Scouts, 'Be Prepared' is a motto. For CAP Emergency Services, it's a lifestyle."
This usually results in a question about what emergency services we do.

"Doesn't the Air Force do the search and rescue missions?"
"Yeah. Right. I can see it now." /Hand motion of a fast moving jet about shoulder level/ "Air Force Jet 'You see anything down there, Joe?' 'Nope, I don't see anything, Harry' Cap Single Engine Cessna," /hand motion of a slow moving plane with "put put" noises/ "'Hey Charlie, whats that down their?' 'Looks like a washing machine.'" (maybe some time I'll film this one and put it on YouTube)

"Just what does CAP do?"
"Got an hour?"
or
"Besides giving teens a sense of confidence, respect and responsibility?"
or
"You wouldn't beleive me," I hand 'em a business card, "But come on out to a meeting and talk with a few of our members."
or my favorite
"Well, I've seen a CAP unit change a 12-year-old, loud-mouthed practical joker into a responsible and respectful leader in less than two years."


On recruiting.

I find that parents are often the deciding factor for their child's participation. When that happens (and sometimes even before it comes up) I tell them that, "Unlike Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, not all adult CAP members are in leadership positions." Then I mention some of our unit's specific needs.

One cadet really didn't want his mom to join until I pointed out to him that we had a lot of jobs available where they wouldn't be working together, and it really wasn't fair to ask her to sit around with nothingto do. (They lived far enough away that it wan't worth driving home during a meeting.)

[md132]

Never had a problem with anyone here.  If I have to be on base in uniform I always get saluted by any enlisted, including the CSM of the base, which is rare.  If I'm off base I get people thanking me for my service.  Where I'm at they are extremely military friendly.

[a2capt]

We've passed up a ton of outstanding recruiting events because my squadron commander didn't deem it appropriate enough to be a "CAP activity" (and there was nothing wrong with these places in which we'd ask to recruit - most of which included schools).

Thats an interesting viewpoint .. but there's a flipside to that too.

Air show after air show .. and weekend after weekend .. some of these activities that may just seem like a simple event are far from it. Very far from it, and I'm pretty sure that most cadets have not realized this yet, at just how much time that unit CC gives to make that unit function.

Think about it, most CC's step up to the plate to keep it going because the previous one suddenly had to move on, in the way of employment, the W.A.R. Dept, Chief of Staff, etc..

It's really easy to get upset the way people treat 'us' too, from even inside the organization.

This isn't the volunteer fire dept., it may be similar, but if they would look at it a little different.. everything you do is less they have to do, even if it's a little bit. 10 people doing each a little bit in the end is a a lot someone else doesn't have to do..

Likewise, when the CC's says yes to every single event and finds themselves towing the slack most if not all the time, they tend to figure out that saying yes isn't always beneficial ..