Online gun store gives Law Enforcment Discount to CAP members

[SkywalkerRA]

...like the transition to the ABU....

About time this thread became an uniform thread!

What's funny about uniform discussions is...I am the PAO of my squadron and do a weekly blog. One of the most popular blog posts by far was one on uniforms! We had more shares and likes on Facebook for that post lots than for much our other content. I was surprised, but I probably shouldn't have been.

[kwe1009]

You don't understand how ground SAR often works outside of the CAP system do you? All of the ones I am familiar with are dispatched through the 911 system. 

That is pretty cool.  I always thought law enforcement and/or Fire/EMS were the first ones to respond to a missing person or downed aircraft.  My bad I guess.

[RNOfficer]

Are you retarded or have a problem identifying sarcasm when you see it?  You might consider reading a thread further before you post.

The Internet provides access to almost all human knowledge. What people really use it for are:

1. porn
2. watching cats play the piano
3. fights with strangers

[Luis R. Ramos]

Sooo,

Do you categorize use people give to CAPTalk as...

3. Fights with strangers?!!

[KASSRCrashResearch]

You don't understand how ground SAR often works outside of the CAP system do you? All of the ones I am familiar with are dispatched through the 911 system. 

That is pretty cool.  I always thought law enforcement and/or Fire/EMS were the first ones to respond to a missing person or downed aircraft.  My bad I guess.

They do respond if there's a known location.  But look at it like this:  if it's the common "We have a plane missing between Fort Wayne and Indianapolis" which is about 85 miles as the crow flies how do you chose which one of the 30-40+ jurisdictions it could be in would you send out?

Even if you have a fixed area, it doesn't mean they will be the first people on scene.  For my day job, I work with crash investigation reports (from both the NTSB and the local authorities with the latter, sadly, often being much more detailed).  You'd be amazed how many will make the observation that despite a search of the area by LEOs and the local FD after there was a report of the crash, it was either a civilian or a CAP unit that located the crash site several hours later.

If the locals were always first on the scene or able to handle a large scale search....CAP would lose on its main tangible contribution to society.

[abdsp51]

They do respond if there's a known location.  But look at it like this:  if it's the common "We have a plane missing between Fort Wayne and Indianapolis" which is about 85 miles as the crow flies how do you chose which one of the 30-40+ jurisdictions it could be in would you send out?

Even if you have a fixed area, it doesn't mean they will be the first people on scene.  For my day job, I work with crash investigation reports (from both the NTSB and the local authorities with the latter, sadly, often being much more detailed).  You'd be amazed how many will make the observation that despite a search of the area by LEOs and the local FD after there was a report of the crash, it was either a civilian or a CAP unit that located the crash site several hours later.

If the locals were always first on the scene or able to handle a large scale search....CAP would lose on its main tangible contribution to society.

No we wouldn't because we have other missions to perform.  Sorry but CAP is npot some elite ES/SAR squad alot of people to include membership think it is.

[Holding Pattern]

Sorry but CAP is npot some elite ES/SAR squad alot of people to include membership think it is.

Who here said it was?

[KASSRCrashResearch]

Sorry but CAP is npot some elite ES/SAR squad alot of people to include membership think it is.

Who here said it was?

Exactly.  That's not what I said.  I just said that the main public benefit CAP provides is the ES mission. 

If you ask the average person "What does the Civil Air Patrol do?" odds are they will have no clue or will go "Don't they fly search missions?".  As much as the aerospace education and all the nifty little drill competitions get touted as being the heart of what CAP does...they are largely unheard of outside of the organization and even if they are, they are hard to quantify in terms of tangible outcomes.  Hence why I said "main tangible contribution to society". 

[Fubar]

In fact, any organization that takes 2-3 hours to get crews to an aircraft shouldn't consider itself anywhere near a first responding agency.

So....I'm guessing that you believe that the USAR teams, many HAZMAT crews (at the technician level in rural areas), etc aren't first responders either? Wildland firefighters?  DMORT? Non-CAP ground SAR teams?  All of these can take hours to days to get on-site let alone doing anything useful.

Yes, that's correct. When someone notices there is a bunch of trees on fire, do they call the wildland firefighters immediately, or do they call the local fire department? The first responders arrive, determine holy crap, we need some help, and they request the big boys with the big boys to come in to assist.

So are they a first responder? No. Emergency responder? I'd say a huge fire is an emergency that requires their response. First responders are the guys and gals that head your way immediately upon the first notification of the emergency. That's not CAP, and that's not any other federal resource that takes hours, days, or weeks to spool up. Does that make them unimportant? Gosh no, especially if your life/loved one/property they are responding to help find or save.

It's important that CAP members understand we're not first responders only in that it will keep us out of trouble with those that are. I think we've all known a guy or two that we've had to politely take aside and remind them we're not driving police cars or fire trucks because by the time we're involved, the emergent aspect of the emergency is likely over.

Now, if someone wants to give CAP members a discount and group us in with first responders, well heck, I'm a cheap guy and I'll take any discount you give me. I don't care how they classify us as it doesn't affect us at all. It's that we properly understand our role in an emergency response is what's important.

[Holding Pattern]

In fact, any organization that takes 2-3 hours to get crews to an aircraft shouldn't consider itself anywhere near a first responding agency.

So....I'm guessing that you believe that the USAR teams, many HAZMAT crews (at the technician level in rural areas), etc aren't first responders either? Wildland firefighters?  DMORT? Non-CAP ground SAR teams?  All of these can take hours to days to get on-site let alone doing anything useful.

Yes, that's correct. When someone notices there is a bunch of trees on fire, do they call the wildland firefighters immediately, or do they call the local fire department? The first responders arrive, determine holy crap, we need some help, and they request the big boys with the big boys to come in to assist.

So are they a first responder? No. Emergency responder? I'd say a huge fire is an emergency that requires their response.

US law classifies emergency responders as first responders.

And they (and we) can all get training at... firstrespondertraining.gov

And no, this doesn't mean that we are better or worse than anyone else, or that we are equal to anyone else. But this forum has a tendency to focus on what we aren't to the point of self-denigration.

[Slim]

Jesus Jumpin' Christ folks.

Is it really that hard?  Here's a businessman who was kind enough to offer CAP members the same professional discount he offers to cops, firemen, medics, commercial pilots, TSA, etc.    It's no different than going into the local choke and puke in uniform and getting a discount.

You have two choices.  Smile, say thank you, and throw an extra buck or two into the tip jar.  Or, stand up, make a big scene, and nobly declare that you're no one important, you don't rate or deserve any kind of discount, and you'll be paying full price.  One isn't necessarily the end of the world, and leaves someone with a warm and fuzzy feeling that  they did something nice for someone who goes out of their way to do whatever it is you do.  The other does nothing more than make a big scene and make someone (other than you) look stupid.

It's really simple.  Want to take advantage of the discount?  Take it, and show your appreciation for it.  Don't want it?  Don't mention your affiliation with said group, pay the price, and drive the hell on.

I honestly don't understand why it is that every stinkin' time the topic of a CAP discount comes up, some are so ready and willing to grab the torches and pitchforks, then go after the business and/or anyone who even thinks about using it? 

[Al Sayre]

^^ :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Storm Chaser]

I want to say I'm surprised by this argument, but unfortunately I'm not. These are the kind of things that make CAP members look like amateurs, instead of the professionals we ought to be.

CAP members are not first responders as police, fire fighters, and EMS personnel are. That's not our role and there's nothing wrong with that. According to CAPR 60-3, Para. 1-4, our priority "is [to support] first, the Air Force, then other DoD departments and agencies, other federal departments and agencies, state civil agencies, and finally, local agencies." The majority of Air Force personnel are not considered first responders either.

Regardless of the definition of what and who a first responder is and whether we fall in that category or not, the discount mentioned by the OP has nothing to to with that. It's just a discount. As a CAP member, you can accept gracefully, benefit from the discount, and be grateful for it. Or, you can choose not to accept the discount, pay full price, or even take your business elsewhere. It's your choice, but it's not a matter of debate.

We do what we do in CAP because we care and believe in the mission. We volunteer because we want to give back to our communities, state, and nation. We're not entitled to special treatment or benefits, but if someone wants to give us a discount to show their appreciation, then there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong in accepting.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

How big is this "Law Enforcement Discount"? May not be worth the trouble.

A couple years ago I purchased an FN PS-90 Carbine from an online gun store that offered an LEO Discount.  Cost of the Carbine $890.  FFL Processing fee at the local range $25.  Same carbine of the shelf at the local gun store $1400.  Prices at the gun show;  1300-1500.

LEO Discounts allow me to buy ammo at $14.00/box while to local stores are selling at 24.00 per box.

My wife's Kimber:  MSRP 1200.00, local prices 900.00  LEO Discount $750.00.

These discounts are well worth it. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

You got the Stargate gun...and at a great price. Nice.

[abdsp51]

You got the Stargate gun...and at a great price. Nice.

Stargate gun is the sub-gun variant not the carbine.  The Stargate variant variant here in the states is a Class III firearm.

[Holding Pattern]

You got the Stargate gun...and at a great price. Nice.

Stargate gun is the sub-gun variant not the carbine.  The Stargate variant variant here in the states is a Class III firearm.

It's a Title II firearm that can be only sold via a Class III SOT FFL to LE agencies.

That being said, my airsoft p90 is a great anti-pest bird control tool.

[Майор Хаткевич]

You got the Stargate gun...and at a great price. Nice.

Stargate gun is the sub-gun variant not the carbine.  The Stargate variant variant here in the states is a Class III firearm.

Aware of the differences...still one of the most interesting looking firearms out there.

[LTC Don]

Jesus Jumpin' Christ folks.

Is it really that hard?  Here's a businessman who was kind enough to offer CAP members the same professional discount he offers to cops, firemen, medics, commercial pilots, TSA, etc.    It's no different than going into the local choke and puke in uniform and getting a discount.

You have two choices.  Smile, say thank you, and throw an extra buck or two into the tip jar.  Or, stand up, make a big scene, and nobly declare that you're no one important, you don't rate or deserve any kind of discount, and you'll be paying full price.  One isn't necessarily the end of the world, and leaves someone with a warm and fuzzy feeling that  they did something nice for someone who goes out of their way to do whatever it is you do.  The other does nothing more than make a big scene and make someone (other than you) look stupid.

It's really simple.  Want to take advantage of the discount?  Take it, and show your appreciation for it.  Don't want it?  Don't mention your affiliation with said group, pay the price, and drive the hell on.

I honestly don't understand why it is that every stinkin' time the topic of a CAP discount comes up, some are so ready and willing to grab the torches and pitchforks, then go after the business and/or anyone who even thinks about using it?

Quoted for truth. 

[RNOfficer]

I have a real fishy feeling about this...

Not a scam. Info sent to anyone who requested it.