Paramilitary

[etodd]

Someone described CAP to me the other day as a "paramilitary organization", and I got to wondering.  When most civilians in public hear the word "paramilitary" in the news they think of armed forces of many types across the world that are used in conflicts, etc.

So I was trying to think of other "paramilitary" groups like CAP that are unarmed, but are military like in that uniforms and ranks/grades are used. I guess you could put the various forms of ROTC in that group.  Firefighters would fit that category as well. Salvation Army .... others?

Silly question, but I was just pondering the list.

[MHC5096]

U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary
U.S. Naval Sea Cadet Corps
U.S. Power Squadron
All ROTC/JROTC programs
Boy Scouts of America
Girl Scouts of America
Many state guards/state militias
Many volunteer police/sheriff organizations
Many state/local volunteer park rangers

To name a few.

[SMWOG]

"A  member of an elite paramilitary group, the eagle scouts"..Commrade!

[MHC5096]

LOL. 

[JeffDG]

Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.

The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400

15.  Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B.  Paramilitary unit?  (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)

(Emphasis in original)

[Holding Pattern]

Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.

The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400

15.  Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B.  Paramilitary unit?  (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)

(Emphasis in original)

2 things.

1. don't take this post as legal advice. You will want to verify this answer with a lawyer. I am not a lawyer.

2. https://cliniclegal.org/resources/federal-advocacy/n-400-filing-tips-and-other-information-meeting-uscis-headquarters

Regarding paramilitary membership(Part 11. Item. 15.B.),what if applicants belong(ed) to a paramilitary branch organization registered in the United States?

Respond "no."  USCIS is not looking for organizations that are associated with the United States military, such as ROTC.

I'd call the USCIS help line to confirm this. And get them to either send you an email to that effect or give permission to you to record the call.

[FyreDragn]

CAP qualifies as part of the USAF Total Force, which is a part of the US Air Force and not Paramilitary.  CAP isn't something you would put on the USCIS Naturalization form and wouldn't hinder your ability to be naturalized into the US.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.

The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400

15.  Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B.  Paramilitary unit?  (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)

(Emphasis in original)

Yea, don't say stupid stuff. You know exactly what they mean. We had a family friend who said she was part of a communist party...she was in the "october youth", which was basically required soviet boy scounts/girl scouts. It caused a delay in her process, and by the time they resolved it, she was told she was wrong to put it down as a yes...

[NIN]

"A  member of an elite paramilitary group, the eagle scouts"..Commrade!

Beat me to it.

[JeffDG]

Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.

The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400

15.  Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B.  Paramilitary unit?  (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)

(Emphasis in original)

Yea, don't say stupid stuff. You know exactly what they mean. We had a family friend who said she was part of a communist party...she was in the "october youth", which was basically required soviet boy scounts/girl scouts. It caused a delay in her process, and by the time they resolved it, she was told she was wrong to put it down as a yes...

The advice I've received from counsel is to answer yes, with a full explanation.

I have to answer "Yes" to several, including one about "Have you ever sold or given a weapon to anyone" (I gave my brother a .22 rifle for his birthday one year), or "Have you ever received any military, paramilitary or weapons training?" (I took a firearms safety course when I was 12).

That last question was also on my adjustment of status (green card) application.  I could just imagine the immigration officer reviewing my paperwork reading the explanation, and saying "If this guy answered that truthfully, I really don't need to worry about the rest."

IMHO, you're in a far better position disclosing something minor like that, even if its outside the spirit of the question, because it's within the letter of the question, than answering "No" and someone finding out that you answered less than honestly.

[Garibaldi]

Meh, as long as you are forthcoming with information and have a reasonable, verifiable explanation, then you're good. Don't let them dig around and find stuff you were less than truthful about.

[lordmonar]

Meh, as long as you are forthcoming with information and have a reasonable, verifiable explanation, then you're good. Don't let them dig around and find stuff you were less than truthful about.

+1

Just like on a security clearance form.

If in doubt answer yes....provide the explanation and then let the investigators figure it out.

You don't want to be caught trying to hide something......"I did not think it was important" is a bad answer.

[AirAux]

Just don't tell them that you belong to the John Birch Society...

[MSG Mac]

Enter United States Air Force Auxiliary-Civil Air Patrol

[JeffDG]

Actually, I also have to answer "Yes" to "Have you ever been a member of a militia"

As soon as I submit my application, I become a member of the militia of the United States (10 U.S. Code § 311)

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

[Fubar]

Enter United States Air Force Auxiliary-Civil Air Patrol

Which is not our name. Government paper-pushers may not like that.

(But you could at least put our name first)

[SAREXinNY]

Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.

The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400

15.  Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B.  Paramilitary unit?  (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)

(Emphasis in original)

Yea, don't say stupid stuff. You know exactly what they mean. We had a family friend who said she was part of a communist party...she was in the "october youth", which was basically required soviet boy scounts/girl scouts. It caused a delay in her process, and by the time they resolved it, she was told she was wrong to put it down as a yes...

That is the worst advice I've ever read in my life.  It isn't your job to interpret the form.  Answer the question exactly as it is asked.  As other people have already said, it's better to err on the side of caution and be overly-inclusive.  I have personally seen people get jammed up on similar applications because they thought they knew "exactly what they mean" and left off information.  The reviewer thought they were being deceptive and denied the person the job on something that was completely inconsequential, simply because they knowingly answered incorrectly.  Your attorney gave you perfect advice.

[JeffDG]

My actual "additional detail" on that question:

Part 11:  Question 15(B) Additional
I have been, and remain, a member of the Civil Air Patrol (CAP), Tennessee Wing.  CAP, depending on how broadly one defines the term "Paramilitary" may fit that description as the official auxiliary of the United States Air Force.

[Holding Pattern]

My actual "additional detail" on that question:

Part 11:  Question 15(B) Additional
I have been, and remain, a member of the Civil Air Patrol (CAP), Tennessee Wing.  CAP, depending on how broadly one defines the term "Paramilitary" may fit that description as the official auxiliary of the United States Air Force.

:clap:

[Майор Хаткевич]

Actually...this is an important question for me, not just barracks lawyering.

The reason this is important is so that I can truthfully answer Question 15(B) on USCIS form N-400 ("Application for Naturalization")
https://www.uscis.gov/n-400

15.  Were you ever a member of, or did you ever serve in, help, or otherwise participate in any of the following groups:
...
B.  Paramilitary unit?  (a group of people who act like a military group but are not part of the official military)

(Emphasis in original)

Yea, don't say stupid stuff. You know exactly what they mean. We had a family friend who said she was part of a communist party...she was in the "october youth", which was basically required soviet boy scounts/girl scouts. It caused a delay in her process, and by the time they resolved it, she was told she was wrong to put it down as a yes...

That is the worst advice I've ever read in my life.  It isn't your job to interpret the form.  Answer the question exactly as it is asked.  As other people have already said, it's better to err on the side of caution and be overly-inclusive.  I have personally seen people get jammed up on similar applications because they thought they knew "exactly what they mean" and left off information.  The reviewer thought they were being deceptive and denied the person the job on something that was completely inconsequential, simply because they knowingly answered incorrectly.  Your attorney gave you perfect advice.

Why don't you read the citizenship application first.