Mistaken for military?

[WK95]

Hi,

New guy to these parts. I'm interested in joining CAP and plan to do so once I move in to my college dorms next year.

Out of curiosity, what do you do if you are mistaken for being in the military? For example, what would you do if a person were to come up to you and say "thank you for your service" assuming that you are in the military based on your uniform? Of course, thank you for your service also ought to apply to volunteer groups like CAP but would you correct the person saying this?

[LSThiker]

You say "you are welcome" and move on.

[SunDog]

Dude, it CAN be funny sometimes, too!

I was filling my tank right outside the gate to my Air Force base long ago, and the Thunderbirds were in for a show.  Little kid in a mini-van leaned out and asked if I was a Thunderbird! (I was in my flight suit). . . ego!

Told him no, but was feeling pretty cool about it. . .and a little old lady pulled up and asked me to fill it up and check her oil. . . so I did.

[SunDog]

PS

Occurs to me you might be too young to know that gas satins used to have attendants, dressed in coveralls. They pumped gas, washed windshields, checked oil.  I think they still do in New Jersey. . .

[raivo]

Same in Oregon.

I was in Portland for a friend's wedding a year or two ago and got yelled at for trying to pump my own gas.

[lordmonar]

You say "you are welcome" and move on.

+1

[SilentPhantom]

^+1

Anyways, so me and some other cadets had just come from a Wreaths Across America wreath laying event and we stopped at a mall for lunch. We had people say 'thank you for your service' etc three+ times in a half hour. We were in dress Blues so we looked like AF. This little kid ran up to me and this other female cadet and says 'Thank you for fighting for our country,' We were just speechless for like two seconds and then managed to get out, 'Yeah, uh, you're welcome.' It was akward, but nice to see that some Americans actually do appreciate the people who fight save their butts; or, search to save their butts, in this case.

[Eclipse]

You say "you are welcome" and move on.

+1

+ Another.

I've had more then one person in the military thank me as CAP as well, usually around the time they
realize we've both been on the base for a week but only one of us is getting paid.. 

Respect is respect, service is service.  We all do what we can.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I was once mistaken for store security...in the short-sleeved AF blue uniform!

A woman came up to me and asked if I was a store security guard.  I told her what I was, pointing at my nameplate, and she said, "Oh, you are a security guard, for our country!"  Nice warm fuzzy.

Only rarely have I been mistaken for RealMilitary (much less than some of the hand-wringers about "low light/at a distance" would think).  When I get asked "are you in the Air Force?" my usual response is "I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol, the volunteer Auxiliary of the Air Force.  We are very loosely comparable to the Air Force Reserve, except that we are civilian non-combatant volunteers."  I usually give a brief rundown of our three missions.

Once an older man in a restaurant said to me, "I had no idea the Civil Air Patrol was still around.  I remember you guys from WWII."

Once on the way home from a practice mission I was eating in a restaurant and was in my flight suit.  A gentleman who had been in SAC sat down next to me and started telling me stories of how he liked the Civil Air Patrol units who operated out of bases where he was stationed.  When he left he gave me a very firm handshake and said "good talking to you, Lieutenant."  That means more to me than any salute.

Another time a guy who had been in the Army (I think) said to me, "you guys put up with the bull[mess] from the military and don't get paid for it?!"

Military members usually treat me as sort of a colleague, which is nice.  As I've said before, I usually get better treatment from Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Coasties than from Air Force members.

When I get the "thank you for your service," I usually just say "you're welcome, very kind of you to say so."

[SilentPhantom]

I was once mistaken for store security...in the short-sleeved AF blue uniform!

A woman came up to me and asked if I was a store security guard.  I told her what I was, pointing at my nameplate, and she said, "Oh, you are a security guard, for our country!"  Nice warm fuzzy.

Only rarely have I been mistaken for RealMilitary (much less than some of the hand-wringers about "low light/at a distance" would think).  When I get asked "are you in the Air Force?" my usual response is "I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol, the volunteer Auxiliary of the Air Force.  We are very loosely comparable to the Air Force Reserve, except that we are civilian non-combatant volunteers."  I usually give a brief rundown of our three missions.

Once an older man in a restaurant said to me, "I had no idea the Civil Air Patrol was still around.  I remember you guys from WWII."

Once on the way home from a practice mission I was eating in a restaurant and was in my flight suit.  A gentleman who had been in SAC sat down next to me and started telling me stories of how he liked the Civil Air Patrol units who operated out of bases where he was stationed.  When he left he gave me a very firm handshake and said "good talking to you, Lieutenant."  That means more to me than any salute.

Another time a guy who had been in the Army (I think) said to me, "you guys put up with the bull[mess] from the military and don't get paid for it?!"

When I get the "thank you for your service," I usually just say "you're welcome, very kind of you to say so."

That's awesome!

[Panache]

You say "you are welcome" and move on.

^ +1

As said, service is service.  Additionally, some of us are either in the active-duty military or (in my case) is a veteran.

[JacobAnn]

Dude, it CAN be funny sometimes, too!

I was filling my tank right outside the gate to my Air Force base long ago, and the Thunderbirds were in for a show.  Little kid in a mini-van leaned out and asked if I was a Thunderbird! (I was in my flight suit). . . ego!

Told him no, but was feeling pretty cool about it. . .and a little old lady pulled up and asked me to fill it up and check her oil. . . so I did.

That is funny.  Same thing happened to me many years ago at a gas station when I was wearing the blue flight suit that looked more like coveralls than a flight suit.  I was glad to help out by checking the oil.

I believe it's just in NJ and OR where they don't have self-serve gas pumps.

[MSG Mac]

Dude, it CAN be funny sometimes, too!

I was filling my tank right outside the gate to my Air Force base long ago, and the Thunderbirds were in for a show.  Little kid in a mini-van leaned out and asked if I was a Thunderbird! (I was in my flight suit). . . ego!

Told him no, but was feeling pretty cool about it. . .and a little old lady pulled up and asked me to fill it up and check her oil. . . so

That is funny.  Same thing happened to me many years ago at a gas station when I was wearing the blue flight suit that looked more like coveralls than a flight suit.  I was glad to help out by checking the oil.

I believe it's just in NJ and OR where they don't have self-serve gas pumps.

New Jersey also has the lowest gas prices on the East Coast.

[antdetroitwallyball]

Hi,

New guy to these parts. I'm interested in joining CAP and plan to do so once I move in to my college dorms next year.

Out of curiosity, what do you do if you are mistaken for being in the military? For example, what would you do if a person were to come up to you and say "thank you for your service" assuming that you are in the military based on your uniform? Of course, thank you for your service also ought to apply to volunteer groups like CAP but would you correct the person saying this?

1) Always return the "Thank you" with a "You welcome, thank you for saying so."

Then, if the person doesn't seem to be entirely in a rush, it may be appropriate to describe to him what CAP is. Keep in like 2 sentences. Something like,

" Thank you for saying so, Sir. I'm actually a member of the Civil Air Patrol, an volunteer organization that functions at times as a auxiliary to the air force."

IF the person, seems to have a lot of time on their hands and presses you for more information, then you can go into more detail, perhaps even giving a subliminal recruiting speech.

The key is to not disregard the person's gratitude, and at the same time, not try to use the opportunity to recruit EVERYONE into CAP. Most of us are mature adults (most of us) and we have enough social experience to sense which of these senerios is a good opportunity to go into detail about CAP, and when it is simply appropriate to return the thank you with "you're welcome" and move on.

[lordmonar]

We are the Civil Air Patrol.....we ARE ALWAYS functioning as an auxiliary to the Air force.

AUX ON-AUX OFF only exists in people's minds.

[Garibaldi]

I just usually say "I'm a civilian volunteer in the Air Force Auxiliary, and I will pass on your thanks to those who are actually serving."

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

We are the Civil Air Patrol.....we ARE ALWAYS functioning as an auxiliary to the Air force.

AUX ON-AUX OFF only exists in people's minds.

Quite well said.

The AUX-ON/AUX-OFF mentality needs to be banished to the depths of Gre'Thor.

I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol, the Auxiliary of the United States Air Force.  Period.

[Private Investigator]

I was once mistaken for store security...in the short-sleeved AF blue uniform!

Three of us walked into a Jack in the Box in the USAF short sleeve uniform. I know Spanish and the young people identified us police officers and they left quickly so I sat with my back against the wall because I want to be the first one to duck, WTSHTF amigos. 

[antdetroitwallyball]

We are the Civil Air Patrol.....we ARE ALWAYS functioning as an auxiliary to the Air force.

AUX ON-AUX OFF only exists in people's minds.

Quite well said.

The AUX-ON/AUX-OFF mentality needs to be banished to the depths of Gre'Thor.

I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol, the Auxiliary of the United States Air Force.  Period.

Okay, so here's the deal: I'm a newer member, so I will defer to your wisdom and experience on this whole AUX On/Off thing as being completely fictional, which is what you seem to be indicating.

It was my previous understanding that the US Code authorizing CAP was written very clearly that we are only an auxiliary when on an AF mission with an mission number. At all other times, we are simply a non profit. It was my understanding that because we can often function as a non-auxiliary at times, we have the legal ability to function in non-air force activities, like supporting local community's police departments in SAR and having a cadet program.

It was my understanding that this other-than-military-agency-support was not possible for the other auxiliary, the USCG AUX (an integral component of the CG, a full govt agency), which is explictly a full-time aux to the CG, and which CANNOT perform anything other than official CG missions, which limits what we can do. For example, we cannot accept donations to our organization, and we cannot help the local sheriff do search and rescue unless specifically under the task direction of a local CG unit, and we can't work with anyone under 18.

If I'm incorrect on anything, please correct me. But up til know, I thought the regs were very clear on this.

[lordmonar]

We are only a "government agency" on AFAM time....but we are always the Civil Air Patrol, the USAF Axillary.   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

At the risk of turning this into a uniform thread, which I am not trying to do...

If the AUX ON/OFF mentality were truly a reality, then some things would have to change.


One line of this nameplate would have to change, or we would have to wear grey tape over it unless on an AFAM.


This shield would have to be changed...oh, sorry, it was changed.


This seal would have to be changed.


...and we could only use this bloody awful triangle thingy.

[4fhoward]

AFI10-2701
Chapter 1heading sentence five.
When performing Air Force-assigned programs and missions, CAP assets function as an auxiliary of the Air Force.

AFI10-2701 1.1
Capabilities. CAP conducts three primary programs: emergency services and civil support, aero-space education, and a cadet program. CAP may conduct emergency service and civil support activities as a corporation or when approved and assigned by the SECAF (or the designee), as an auxiliary of the Air Force.  As a general rule, Aerospace Education and Cadet Program activities are not AFAMs.

AFI10-2701 1.2
CAP status as an Auxiliary of the Air Force.  Title 10, USC 9442 identifies CAP as an auxiliary of the Air Force when carrying out a mission assigned by the SECAF to provide services to any department or agency in any branch of the Federal government, including the Air Force. CAP is deemed to be an instrumentality of the United States while carrying out missions assigned by the Secretary.

AFI10-2701 table 2.1 note 3.
Federal Agencies.  In accordance with Title 10, United States Code 9442 (a), CAP may only support Federal agencies in its status as the Air Force Auxiliary.

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a3_5/publication/afi10-2701/afi10-2701.pdf

[antdetroitwallyball]

At the risk of turning this into a uniform thread, which I am not trying to do...

If the AUX ON/OFF mentality were truly a reality, then some things would have to change.

CyBorg, with all due respect, the regs that 4fHoward just posted, namely:

Title 10, USC 9442 identifies CAP as an auxiliary of the Air Force when carrying out a mission assigned by the SECAF to provide services to any department or agency in any branch of the Federal government, including the Air Force.

seems to completely disagree with your position on this matter. And has CAP been on a trend of removing USAF AUX markings from things, namely, airplanes?
Not trying to be difficult here, but the regs seem really, really clear. Listen, I don't like it either. I feel that we are probably in "AUX ON" status (for lack of a better word) enough of the time to retain our USAF AUX markings on all our stuff. But I'm not going to hide under a rock of ignorance either.

I'm proud to be a CAP member, and even more proud that we are the ONLY agency to ever be used as an AUX to the AF, and only one of a few agencies that gets to really "play inside the military community" without having to actually sell one's soul to the govt thru enlistment/commission. We get a lot of the fun, with only a limited about of BS. Being an auxiliary/nonprofit hybrid gives CAP an amazing ability to have a diversity of things to do.

[FlyTiger77]

AFI10-2701 1.2
CAP status as an Auxiliary of the Air Force.  Title 10, USC 9442 identifies CAP as an auxiliary of the Air Force when carrying out a mission assigned by the SECAF to provide services to any department or agency in any branch of the Federal government, including the Air Force. CAP is deemed to be an instrumentality of the United States while carrying out missions assigned by the Secretary.

If you prefer primary sources:

Title 10 US Code § 9442 states in pertinent part:

Status as volunteer civilian auxiliary of the Air Force

(a) VOLUNTEER CIVILIAN AUXILIARY.—The Civil Air Patrol is a volunteer civilian auxiliary of the Air Force when the services of the Civil Air
Patrol are used by any department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government.

The section goes on to state that CAP is only an instrumentality of the Federal government when performing missions assigned by the Secretary of the Air Force.

If there is any additional clarification or contradiction in the USC, I didn't see it. Nor am I lawyer and I have never played one on TV, but I am sitting in a Holiday Inn Express at this very instant!

[4fhoward]

I was more concerned with the squiggle symbol § I looked all over for that thing.

[FlyTiger77]

I was more concerned with the squiggle symbol § I looked all over for that thing.

It's the HIEE (Holiday Inn Express Effect)!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

And has CAP been on a trend of removing USAF AUX markings from things, namely, airplanes? Not trying to be difficult here, but the regs seem really, really clear. Listen, I don't like it either. I feel that we are probably in "AUX ON" status (for lack of a better word) enough of the time to retain our USAF AUX markings on all our stuff. But I'm not going to hide under a rock of ignorance either.

I'm proud to be a CAP member, and even more proud that we are the ONLY agency to ever be used as an AUX to the AF, and only one of a few agencies that gets to really "play inside the military community" without having to actually sell one's soul and dignity to the govt thru enlistment/commission. We get a lot of the fun, with only a limited about of BS. Being an auxiliary/nonprofit hybrid gives CAP an amazing ability to have a diversity of things to do.

It disgusts me that we have been moving further from the Air Force ever since about the late '90s, and I see no logical point in removing the AF markings from our aircraft or the command shield.  But that's just an old fart like me talking.

I see a real dichotomy bordering on a schizoid mentality within our organisation:

We are very happy to take Air Force funding, but we don't like them "interfering" with what we do.

I would wager that the AF currently values the Air Force section of MARS more than they do us, pertaining to their actual operations.

[Storm Chaser]

I'm proud to be a CAP member, and even more proud that we are the ONLY agency to ever be used as an AUX to the AF, and only one of a few agencies that gets to really "play inside the military community" without having to actually sell one's soul and dignity to the govt thru enlistment/commission. We get a lot of the fun, with only a limited about of BS. Being an auxiliary/nonprofit hybrid gives CAP an amazing ability to have a diversity of things to do. (emphasis mine)

I assure you that I haven't sold my "soul and dignity" and neither have the millions of members that serve in our military and defend our freedom and way of life.

I would wager that the AF currently values the Air Force section of MARS more than they do us, pertaining to their actual operations.

Tomorrow, I'm running a CAP mission in support of the Air Force. I feel that they value us enough. I've had nothing but support from the Air Force while performing CAP duties. In fact, we do many missions in support of the Air Force and they've always been appreciative of what we do.

[Lord of the North]

I would wager that the AF currently values the Air Force section of MARS more than they do us, pertaining to their actual operations.

Keep in mind that all MARS sections are now, by law, an auxiliary to their branch of service.

[antdetroitwallyball]

It disgusts me that we have been moving further from the Air Force ever since about the late '90s, and I see no logical point in removing the AF markings from our aircraft or the command shield.  But that's just an old fart like me talking.

I agree 100% with you on this matter. But I sometimes wonder if we confuse the Air Force's apparent lack of appreciation with how they actually feel about us.

The Coast Guard doesn't need the CG AUX. They could even get by without their very confused reserve program (well, kinda....). But they appreciate the CG AUX enough to continue funding them. Money = Appreciation. The CG AUX, in return, every year presents a hourly total to the CG and says, "you gave us this much funding, and we gave you this many man-hours. If you give us more, we will give you more." And the Commandant of the CG looks at the 4,000,000 man hours each year and says, "Wow, that small amount of funding was worth it."

This is why I'm shocked CAP doesn't seem to care about people logging hours.

The other issue is that CAP is so small, and the AF is so big. Any active duty support we get is going to small compared to the overall organization of the air force. Whereas the CG AUX has a full time active duty liason at the tune of about 3-4 per state (most are Warrent Officers, and their sole job is managing CG AUX affairs), USAF seems to have centralized the majority of their reps at the national level (instead of the field level). Mission Differences also account for this lack of touchy-feely arrangement between CAP and USAF.

SAR is a big thing in the active duty CG world, so an auxiliary that also does SAR seems normal. Active duty CG is has about as much of a combat mindset as does it's auxiliary. The active duty USAF major missions are not super related to CAP's main missions, so the connection is not nearly as clear in the minds of Active Duty airmen.

Heck, the AD CG recruits are taught some classes in boot camp under CG AUX instructors.


My point is, let's not be "mad" at USAF for neglecting us, per se.......and let's also not be so quick to assume that they don't appreciate us. The day they drastically reduce our funding is the day I will think they really don't appreciate us. CAP Natl HQ, on the otherhand.....now they seem to not appreciate us....

I assure you that I haven't sold my "soul and dignity" and neither have the millions of members that serve in our military and defend our freedom and way of life.

Chill didn't mean it offensively. My only point was, you sign the contract and wish to remain in, they OWN you. A lot of the stress put on military personnel has NOTHING to do with combat related stuff. The majority of suicides are by people who have never seen combat. I've seen war hardened combat experienced marines join the graveyard shift CG SAR station and not be able to cut it. There is so much red-tape political BS. Being able to handle a gun and combat situation doesn't automatically garuntee you will be prepared to handle all aspects of the military.

People who sign a contract and then have to be babysat and dragged through the military are not "heros" to me, just because they signed paperwork. You can join the military and actually be a burden to your country and the tax payer. When you sign the contact, you are offering to go and serve as a hero. But you're not a hero until you've proved yourself through your attitude and service performance. Anyone can be forcibly drafted and then whine and drag their feet through their military commitment. I respect only those who back up their hero-talk with their hero actions and hero attitudes. Having said this, I've been satisfied to know that the majority of the CG are honest, self-sacrificing people. I'll be charitable and assume the same is true for the other branches.

I feel that they value us enough. I've had nothing but support from the Air Force while performing CAP duties. In fact, we do many missions in support of the Air Force and they've always been appreciative of what we do.

I agree wholly. They wouldn't fund us Just because.

[lordmonar]

At the risk of turning this into a uniform thread, which I am not trying to do...

If the AUX ON/OFF mentality were truly a reality, then some things would have to change.

CyBorg, with all due respect, the regs that 4fHoward just posted, namely:

Title 10, USC 9442 identifies CAP as an auxiliary of the Air Force when carrying out a mission assigned by the SECAF to provide services to any department or agency in any branch of the Federal government, including the Air Force.

SECAF assigned missions.....like ES, CP and AE.   Those are SECAF assigned missions....and we do them 24-7.

A AFAM is a mission symbol.....and tells you who pays for it and when FICA and FTPA come into play.

[Storm Chaser]

Chill didn't mean it offensively.

Maybe not, but words have meaning and what you said was inappropriate, especially coming from a CAP member.

My only point was, you sign the contract and wish to remain in, they OWN you. A lot of the stress put on military personnel has NOTHING to do with combat related stuff. The majority of suicides are by people who have never seen combat. I've seen war hardened combat experienced marines join the graveyard shift CG SAR station and not be able to cut it. There is so much red-tape political BS. Being able to handle a gun and combat situation doesn't automatically garuntee you will be prepared to handle all aspects of the military.

People who sign a contract and then have to be babysat and dragged through the military are not "heros" to me, just because they signed paperwork. You can join the military and actually be a burden to your country and the tax payer. When you sign the contact, you are offering to go and serve as a hero. But you're not a hero until you've proved yourself through your attitude and service performance. Having said this, I've been satisfied to know that the majority of the CG are honest, self-sacrificing people. I'll be charitable and assume the same is true for the other branches.

Unless you've served in the U.S. Military, your opinions about the sacrifices that ALL our service men and women do for our country are inconsequential. That said, you are entitled to them thanks to those same sacrifices, which guarantee your freedom of speech. Have a good day.

[Garibaldi]

People who sign a contract and then half to be babysat and dragged through the military are not "heros" to me, just because they signed paperwork. You can join the military an actually be a burden to your country and the tax payer. Having said this, I've been satisfied to know that the majority of the CG are honest, self-sacrificing people. I'll be charitable and assume the same is true for the other branches.

This is the biggest problem I have with people who "didn't realize what they were getting into" when they enlisted around 2003. It was in the news that military members were deserting and such because they were "lied to" by recruiters. That moonbat mom who led protests because her son was "lied to" and died because "Bush lied"...what was her name...anyway, that.

EXCUSE ME, but the whole purpose of the military is to fight! Did you think the military was going to send you to a park to pick flowers? Anyone with half a brain in their head knows that the military is all about fighting. Just because there isn't a conflict going on when you sit down with a recruiter, doesn't mean one won't pop up.

When I decided to enlist back in July 1986, it was at the height of the Cold War. I knew instinctively that I could be sent to Europe to fight against the Warsaw Pact, or I could be one of the (un)lucky ones who managed to sit it out Stateside and get wiped out by a nuclear missile. Or, I could not enlist, sit at home or in a college classroom in Atlanta and still get killed by a nuke. No conflicts were going on at the time, but all the same, I tried, failed (wimped out), and was discharged a month after I got to Fort Jackson for basic. When I look back at it, at the time Saddam Hussein decided to invade Kuwait, it would have been right at the time I would have gotten out. They were freezing leaves and discharges to mobilize more troops in 1990.

All I'm saying is that you have to be some kind of low speed high drag genius to enlist in the military and expect to do your 4 years and not get deployed somewhere. I sure as heck didn't. Yes, it would have paid for college, I would have had an experience to tell my grandkids about someday, I may even have gotten married. But, at the end of the day, when we were handed our M-16s and taught how to use it, reality kicked in. "Hey, I am expected to pick one of these things up and use it someday, even thought I'm not Infantry." Otherwise, they wouldn't bother teaching a file clerk how to shoot, communicate, move.

Anyone who says they joined the military not expecting to fight at some point is deluding themselves.

[antdetroitwallyball]

This is the biggest problem I have with people who "didn't realize what they were getting into" when they enlisted around 2003. It was in the news that military members were deserting and such because they were "lied to" by recruiters. That moonbat mom who led protests because her son was "lied to" and died because "Bush lied"...what was her name...anyway, that.

EXCUSE ME, but the whole purpose of the military is to fight! Did you think the military was going to send you to a park to pick flowers? Anyone with half a brain in their head knows that the military is all about fighting. Just because there isn't a conflict going on when you sit down with a recruiter, doesn't mean one won't pop up.

OMG. SO. True.

And the CG is even worse for this (I would imagine), because they are so un-military as certain places, that it lulls junior members into thinking "this is how the whole CG is."

I knew a 18 year E-3 that was always saying, "If I knew the CG was going to make me learn stuff, I'd have just gone to college."

I've heard a 28 year old E-3 say, "I don't want to be a law enforcement officer because I don't feel I can handle a sketchy situation."

To me, "military" should mean two things:

1) a potentionally dangerous work enviroment. Which a lot of the military really isn't, anyways.

2) You're going to be uncomfortable doing hardwork as a patriot for your country.

That fat $31,000 TAKE-HOME paycheck the CG hands out to it's 18 year old E-3's is for something. It's compensation for you being uncomfortable and not having much of a say about it.

Again, my respect for the hardworking military man exceeds my normal respect for a hardworking civilian. But don't sit on my nickel with your entitlement attitude and whine about how you are some great hero if your actions don't reflect your talk. Especially if you've risked litterally nothing. Honor and respect is earned.

Anyone who says they joined the military not expecting to fight at some point is deluding themselves.

Except the CG. It's not historically happened in many years. But it could.

[SilentAntidote]

At an airshow last summer, people thanked me for my service. I explained what we actually were, and used that as a recruiting opportunity. Managed to recruit at least five people that day. I was also asked for autographs and people wanted to take pictures of  their kids with me, which was cute. The other cadets and I felt like celebrities.

[JeffDG]

At the risk of turning this into a uniform thread, which I am not trying to do...

If the AUX ON/OFF mentality were truly a reality, then some things would have to change.

CyBorg, with all due respect, the regs that 4fHoward just posted, namely:

Title 10, USC 9442 identifies CAP as an auxiliary of the Air Force when carrying out a mission assigned by the SECAF to provide services to any department or agency in any branch of the Federal government, including the Air Force.

SECAF assigned missions.....like ES, CP and AE.   Those are SECAF assigned missions....and we do them 24-7.

A AFAM is a mission symbol.....and tells you who pays for it and when FICA and FTPA come into play.

Nope, ES, CP and AE are Congressionally assigned missions, not assigned by SECAF.

[4fhoward]

Back to the topic.

I was traveling to a CAP event by air.  I was wearing my service uniform; yes I did have approval, during the flight to and from the event.
On the way to the event a father and son sitting next to me asked me about the uniform and the Air Force.  I explained what the uniform and hat CAP was.  The flight attendant who was a former marine stopped to talk me.  On the connecting flight I sat next to a really nice lady whose husband had been in the Air Force.  She introduced by to a cargo plane I had never heard of.

On the way home, I was standing in line at the TSA check in.  The line was long and winded back and forth.  A TSA agent stepped up to me and asked me to come with him.  He opened a scanner and processed me by myself.  He then thanked me for me service. I was unable to explain about CAP because he moved on. On the connecting flight home I had two different people thank me for my service.  I polity said you're welcome and hurried to catch my flight.


I have been on Peterson Air Force base; I had a lot of Air Force personnel ask me if I was from Canada.  The CAP on the epaulets was confusing people.

I still think the people at my work think I'm active duty Air Force

[antdetroitwallyball]

At an airshow last summer, people thanked me for my service. I explained what we actually were, and used that as a recruiting opportunity. Managed to recruit at least five people that day.

First impressions, and well-worded, concise responses can lead to recruitment. Perfect. Love it. 

I have been on Peterson Air Force base; I had a lot of Air Force personnel ask me if I was from Canada.  The CAP on the epaulets was confusing people.

Canada? Heh.. That's awesome. 

[FlyTiger77]

At the risk of turning this into a uniform thread, which I am not trying to do...

If the AUX ON/OFF mentality were truly a reality, then some things would have to change.

CyBorg, with all due respect, the regs that 4fHoward just posted, namely:

Title 10, USC 9442 identifies CAP as an auxiliary of the Air Force when carrying out a mission assigned by the SECAF to provide services to any department or agency in any branch of the Federal government, including the Air Force.

SECAF assigned missions.....like ES, CP and AE.   Those are SECAF assigned missions....and we do them 24-7.

A AFAM is a mission symbol.....and tells you who pays for it and when FICA and FTPA come into play.

Actually, if you were to look at 36 USC § 40302, you would find that the Department of the Air Force support (presumably through the actions of the Secretary) only makes up 1 of 5 (or 6 if you count the two subparts of the first mission separately):

The purposes of the corporation are as follows:
(1) To provide an organization to—
(A) encourage and aid citizens of the United States in contributing their efforts, services, and resources in developing aviation
and in maintaining air supremacy; and
(B) encourage and develop by example the voluntary contribution of private citizens to the public welfare.
(2) To provide aviation education and training especially to its senior and cadet members.
(3) To encourage and foster civil aviation in local communities.
(4) To provide an organization of private citizens with adequate facilities to assist in
meeting local and national emergencies.
(5) To assist the Department of the Air Force in fulfilling its noncombat programs
and missions.

This seems to support Jeff's contention:

At the risk of turning this into a uniform thread, which I am not trying to do...

If the AUX ON/OFF mentality were truly a reality, then some things would have to change.

CyBorg, with all due respect, the regs that 4fHoward just posted, namely:

Title 10, USC 9442 identifies CAP as an auxiliary of the Air Force when carrying out a mission assigned by the SECAF to provide services to any department or agency in any branch of the Federal government, including the Air Force.

SECAF assigned missions.....like ES, CP and AE.   Those are SECAF assigned missions....and we do them 24-7.

A AFAM is a mission symbol.....and tells you who pays for it and when FICA and FTPA come into play.

Nope, ES, CP and AE are Congressionally assigned missions, not assigned by SECAF.

Again, there may be (thousands of) legal nuance(s) and/or case law that is beyond a (or my) lay reading of the acts of Congress, but the legislation seems to support the model of limited auxilliary status.

[RiverAux]

The Coast Guard doesn't need the CG AUX.

Well, you seem to be forgetting the huge number of tasks that the CG is assigned to carry out, at least one of which could not be done without the Aux.  I suppose the CG could print up a few boating safety brochures, check a few life jackets every now and again, and do the annual accident report and say that their recreational boating safety obligations are taken care of.  But, they wouldn't have a real boating safety program without the Aux. 

And I'm not saying that there aren't other things that the Aux helps the CG do that couldn't be done about as well without them. 

Boating safety may not be the CG's highest priority, but it is still something they're mandated to do.

[PHall]

At an airshow last summer, people thanked me for my service. I explained what we actually were, and used that as a recruiting opportunity. Managed to recruit at least five people that day.

First impressions, and well-worded, concise responses can lead to recruitment. Perfect. Love it. 

I have been on Peterson Air Force base; I had a lot of Air Force personnel ask me if I was from Canada.  The CAP on the epaulets was confusing people.

Canada? Heh.. That's awesome. 

antdetroitwallyball, there are a fair number of RCAF members at Peterson AFB. It's where NORAD is Headquartered.

[Panache]

I was once mistaken for store security...in the short-sleeved AF blue uniform!

In my experience, "light blue shirt" + "navy blue pants" is the generic everyman's work uniform.

A couple of years before, before we went to office attire, my work outfit was exactly that: a blue button-down oxford-style shirt with navy-blue slacks with an ID badge worn on a lanyard around my neck.  And what I found out was that I could pretty much go anywhere I wanted.  People would look up from their tasks, glance at me, and continue doing whatever they were doing.  It really was a true version of "urban camo".  Not once was I challenged.

In fact, I got used to the fact that when I was out and about running errands, other people would usually assume I worked at whatever place I happened to be at the time, and would approach me with questions or requests.

I have been on Peterson Air Force base; I had a lot of Air Force personnel ask me if I was from Canada.  The CAP on the epaulets was confusing people.

What are you talking aboot, hoser?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^

Of course, I live in a state where there are NO active-duty military installations, except for two Coast Guard Air Stations and a couple of small-boat stations.

Navy - none.
Army - National Guard training centre.
Air Force - no active AFB's; two ANGB's, one which will probably not survive the next BRAC.
Marines - one small personnel centre.

Perhaps that influences my perspective.  If I lived in Texas Wing, where there seemingly are Air Force installations anywhere you look (especially around San Antonio), maybe I would have a different perspective.

And, being a former CG AUXIE, I know from talking to CG officers that their Auxiliary is appreciated and needed.  In recent years, anyway, the only indication I have personally had is the account I have related about a State Director who visited a former unit of mine and basically told us that the only reason we (seniors) were needed was to "shepherd the cadets through to get their Mitchell so they can get E-3 when they graduate from AF BMT."

I got mistaken in another way when I was in the Aux.  I was doing recruiting duty at an airshow wearing the insignia of a Flotilla Staff Officer (like Ensign but silver).  The Navy Reserves had a recruiting booth set up not far from us, overseen by a Lieutenant Commander.  She came over and talked to me and said "I knew the CG wore insignia similar to ours but didn't know how...I guess it's the silver braid, huh?"  I had to gently correct her that my silver braid was the mark of an Auxiliarist and that if I had been actual active or reserve CG, my shoulder boards would have been very similar to hers, slightly different shade of blue, with CG shield (I don't remember what mark hers had, but I don't think it was a line officer's star).

[Майор Хаткевич]

^^^

Are these Canadian?

[Panache]

Are these Canadian?

I think that's the new proposed grade insignia for CAP Flight Officers.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^

Are these Canadian?

Yes.  L-R, top row: nationality shoulder titles (worn by virtually all Commonwealth militaries) for officers and other ranks.

Second row: Officer Cadet, 2nd Lieutenant (pronounced leff-tenant), Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Lieutenant Colonel.

Third row: Colonel, Brigadier General, Major General, Lieutenant General, General.

Fourth row: Another set of General ranks.

The current Canadian Chief of the Defence Staff (like our Chairman of the Joint Chiefs) is an RCAF General:


General Thomas J. Lawson, CMM, CD, RCAF

[Panache]

General Thomas J. Lawson, CMM, CD, RCAF

Why is he wearing his cover indoors?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

They have different (British-derived) customs and courtesies.

[Panache]

They have different (British-derived) customs and courtesies.

That's unacceptable.

[JeffDG]

^^^

I came close to wearing those...migraine headaches kept me out of ROTP.

[Private Investigator]

Back to the topic.

I have been on Peterson Air Force base; I had a lot of Air Force personnel ask me if I was from Canada.  The CAP on the epaulets was confusing people.

Thank you. Nobody believes me when I tell them that. I have been asked if I was Canadien too, especially in the grey and white aviator shirt combo even on Nellis AFB. 

[Private Investigator]

General Thomas J. Lawson, CMM, CD, RCAF

Why is he wearing his cover indoors?

Because he is a General? D'oh!   

[Storm Chaser]

Not just a General; a "Four-Leaf" General.

[JeffDG]

Not just a General; a "Four-Leaf" General.

Only one of those at any time.

The component commanders (Air, Land and Navy) are LtGens, only the Chief of the Defense Staff is a full-general.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^

I came close to wearing those...migraine headaches kept me out of ROTP.

I feel for you...literally.  I get migraines too.

The component commanders (Air, Land and Navy) are LtGens, only the Chief of the Defense Staff is a full-general.

Prince Charles wears "three leaf" rank, but I have only seen him in Army and Naval uniform...not Air.

Thank you. Nobody believes me when I tell them that. I have been asked if I was Canadien too, especially in the grey and white aviator shirt combo even on Nellis AFB. 

That's odd.  The three Canadian Services do not wear grey and white, except for naval personnel wearing white shirts and navy-blue (almost black) trousers.

It would be more likely to be mistaken for a German Bundesheer troop.

[Private Investigator]

Prince Charles wears "three leaf" rank, but I have only seen him in Army and Naval uniform...not Air.

Prince Charles must be cavalry, I see he is with his horse 

[BuckeyeDEJ]

This seal would have to be changed.

That's an ugly, out-of-proportion seal.

The old CAP Bookstore/CAPMart/maybe Vanguard had the nice plastic CAP seal plaques you still see floating around. I have two of them — old seal and new seal — thanks to eBay, but whither they goest from retail sale?

Can't find a photo via Google, so I guess I'll hafta add photos later....

[Luis R. Ramos]

It may look out of proportion because the photo may have been taken at an angle.

[SarDragon]

Prince Charles wears "three leaf" rank, but I have only seen him in Army and Naval uniform...not Air.

Prince Charles must be cavalry, I see he is with his horse 

No, that's his cow.

[Panache]

Prince Charles wears "three leaf" rank, but I have only seen him in Army and Naval uniform...not Air.

Prince Charles must be cavalry, I see he is with his horse 

No, that's his cow.

Neigh-sayer!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I think we should be careful about insulting Prince Charles.

I know of at least two people on CT, JeffDG (a Canadian) and BritInCAP (a Briton) who are his future subjects.

Plus, he is Heir to the Throne of many of our allies...the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand among them.

[MSG Mac]

Prince Charles wears "three leaf" rank, but I have only seen him in Army and Naval uniform...not Air.

Prince Charles must be cavalry, I see he is with his horse 

When he's in the UK He wears the Baton and Crown of a Field Marshal, (also Marshal of the RAF and Admiral of the Fleet).

[Shuman 14]

Prince Charles wears "three leaf" rank, but I have only seen him in Army and Naval uniform...not Air.

Prince Charles must be cavalry, I see he is with his horse 

No, that's his cow.

Neigh-sayer!

Seriously guys that's his wife... if I called your wife a cow you'd want to kick my @ZZ.

Respect, it's part of being professional.

[Shuman 14]

When he's in the UK He wears the Baton and Crown of a Field Marshal, (also Marshal of the RAF and Admiral of the Fleet).

Anybody know his last "real" rank when he was a serving officer in Her Majesties Forces?

[Eclipse]

Royal Navy Commander seems to be his last "real" promotion.

He's basically "everything" now.

[Shuman 14]

Royal Navy Commander seems to be his last "real" promotion.

He's basically "everything" now.

I understand that, ceremonial rank aside, reaching O-5 rank is nothing to shake a stick at.

His son's are both O-3's I think, and honorary "Colonel-in-Chief" of some famous British regiments.

I remember Prince William wearing the Shamrock of the Irish Guards at his wedding.

[Eclipse]

Privilege aside, he's legit BTDT,

He's a military helicopter pilot and commanded a ship at the end of his service.

[SarDragon]

Seriously guys that's his wife... if I called your wife a cow you'd want to kick my @ZZ.

Respect, it's part of being professional.

She acquired the nickname "Camilla the cow" long before Prince Charles divorced Princess Diana, from her fellow British subjects.

[Shuman 14]

Seriously guys that's his wife... if I called your wife a cow you'd want to kick my @ZZ.

Respect, it's part of being professional.

She acquired the nickname "Camilla the cow" long before Prince Charles divorced Princess Diana, from her fellow British subjects.

That aside, what has she done to afford our insults?

She not a "political" person per say, she's the second wife of the future king. Has she done anything worthy of the insults... other than to love the Prince.

Yes she's not as pretty as Diana, but I don't think she ever loved Charles, it was an arranged marriage.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Nonetheless...we would have to salute him as an officer of an allied military force - whichever uniform he is wearing at the time.

I think his last "active" rank was as Commander in the RN, Group Captain in the RAF, and Colonel in the British Army.

He also holds the titular rank of Air Commodore of the Royal New Zealand Air Force, and many others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_titles_and_honours_of_Charles,_Prince_of_Wales

I saw a photo of the room(s) in Buckingham Palace dedicated to storing his uniforms...he must have a sizeable group of aides just to do that.

When he was on active service, one of his RAF flight instructors called him "a natural pilot."

He did not fly in action, but his brother, Prince Andrew, flew Sea King helos on active operations in the Falkland Islands War.

Prince William is no longer a serving Flight Lieutenant with the RAF, but Prince Harry is a Captain with the British Army Air Corps and has flown Apache helos on active ops in Afghanistan...as well as visiting our troops at Walter Reed.