Aug 2012 NB Agenda

[arajca]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The Agenda for the August 2012 National Board Meeting has been released. You can find it at Aug 2012 agenda.

Let the games begin!

[Garibaldi]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

The Agenda for the August 2012 National Board Meeting has been released. You can find it at Aug 2012 agenda.

Let the games begin!

I no see nuffink about no ABUs in this here agender. Perhaps it's time to put that particular deceased equine mammal to rest, eh?

[spacecommand]

I would of proposed making the Yeager a requirement for level II (instead of III) completion.  If making it mandatory for level II, this would also remove the "Yeager Award" seal that people get on their Davis Award for Level II completion if they completed AEPSM.   Currently, I think it looks strange having a seal for an award named after one person on the certificate award named for another person.  Those who complete AEPSM already receive  the Yeager award certificate and ribbon.

[Eclipse]

This is all routine administrative business.  If there's going to be anything earth shattering announced,
it's not in this agenda.

4 - Limiting What May Be Discussed As New Business

5 - Safety (Unit visits)

6 - Cadet Special Activities Program & Ribbon

7 - National Cadet Competition Escort Requirements

8 - FOUO Document Designations

9 - CAPR 5-4 Update

10- Modification of CAPR 5-4

11 - CAP Member Meal Reimbursement Rate (increase to $35)

12 - Booster Clubs

13 - ORMS Assignment of Aircraft

14 - Flight of Non-Member Spouses in Corporate Aircraft.

15 - Information Technology (IT) Mission Qualification

16 - Providing Casket Flags for Deceased Members

17 - PDO of the Year Award

18 - Requirement of Yeager Award for Completion of Level 3

19 - Non-Renewal of CAP Members

[Eclipse]

4 - Limiting What May Be Discussed As New Business
No Opinion.

5 - Safety (Unit visits)
In Wings with Groups, the wing SE should not be bypassing the chain and visiting units
In Wings w/o groups, appoint more SE's and give them a specific area of responsibility.
Though neither should be necessary since a unti is required to have a safety officer, and
the program is audited through any number of reports.

6 - Cadet Special Activities Program & Ribbon
Either it's an NCSA, or it isn't.  Don't water down NCSA by trying to elevate other activities.

7 - National Cadet Competition Escort Requirements
Concur that all escort requirments should be consistent and gender neutral.  Matching gender is
no guarantee of safety (or anything else).

8 - FOUO Document Designations
No opinion.

9 - CAPR 5-4 Update
No opinion.

10 - Modification of CAPR 5-4
Leave it as-is, there should be a clear line between what needs a supp, and what can be an OI.
OI's should not be "mini supps"

11 - CAP Member Meal Reimbursement Rate (increase to $35)
Cool by me, though I am usually happy with any per diem.

12 - Booster Clubs
Strongly concur.  No members should be allowed to be a member of a booster club.
AFAIC they should simply disallow them completely.  In all but a few cases, they are
just a way to shield money from being "stolen" from by wing by people who don't understand
how WBP works.  Once in a while they are used for activities outside CAP's allowance -
serving alcohol, an airshow, or something like that, but anyone who believes that an organization
(booster) whose sole purpose is to support another organization (unit) would not also be
getting inoput from the organization they support, probably uses Arthur Anderson as their accountants.


13 - ORMS Assignment of Aircraft
No real opinion since it's a meaningless change.  If members treat the plane like a rental car, address it
directly.  Otherwise, it's just adminstrivia that has no real impact.

14 - Flight of Non-Member Spouses in Corporate Aircraft.
No.  For the reasons cited.

15 - Information Technology (IT) Mission Qualification
Unless you stop the techs from fixing a machine in the same way you would stop
someone who isn't an MP from flying, then it won't change who is actually doing the IT support,
and in a lot of cases those will be unit or higher ITO's who may not even be interested in ES.
As mentioned, we need effort in standardization, not ratings.

16 - Providing Casket Flags for Deceased Members.
I like the idea, but the cost is a legit point for CAP. 

17 - PDO of the Year Award
No opinion about this one specifically, wish they would just do away with the "OTY" awards altogether, since they are
generally "OTY of those submitted", and in some cases that means an automatic win.

18 - Requirement of Yeager Award for Completion of Level 3
One more ticket punch.  The Yeager lost its cache when it went from a unit-level team-building
excercise to an online / open book situation.  Takes 15 minutes.  AFAIC Yeager should be required for LI.

19 - Non-Renewal of CAP Members
Yes, please.  Although these abilities already exist.  If it gets the ball moving on clearing the empty shirts,
I'm all for it.

[tsrup]

Dead horse and all, while there is no specific mention of the ABU, the Uniform Committee's findings are due at this meeting.  This should be, at the very least, the start of the official end for this particular topic one way or another.


Also, I agree with the non-concur on the new "membership non-renewal" option.



It is a passive aggressive end around for squadron commanders to exercise authority that they already have with no recourse.

MARB is here for a reason, and if the new non-renewal system is implemented MARB will become obsolete.


Squadron commanders should just be familiar with the rights that they have as commanders, and not fear a MARB review if they suspend or terminate a member for the right reasons. 
If you fear an appeal process, you probably don't have the best intentions with your decision.

[Brad]

16 - Providing Casket Flags for Deceased Members.
I like the idea, but the cost is a legit point for CAP.

Well I know the VA provides flags for free to vets at their funerals. Perhaps CAP should consider asking them or the American Legion. Yes I know we're not Real Military, but there's usually never any harm in just asking...

[PHall]

There was a reason why the Non-renewal option was eliminated a few years ago. It was abused by too many commanders for personal reasons.

[Turk]

This is all routine administrative business.  If there's going to be anything earth shattering announced,
it's not in this agenda.

No, there's nothing earth-shattering in the agenda. That said, Pineda's removal wasn't in the 2007 agenda, either.

CAP will soon have a redefining moment.

[FW]

Booster Clubs: there is a good reason why CAPR 173-4 was written in the manner it is. The NHQ comments define it well.

Non Renewals: This is why we have a Corporate Staff (corporate memory is a good thing). We have a MARB today because of the old "2d" nonrenewal policy.
In 2001 the BoG told the National Board there would NOT be a non renewal option for CAP. It was considered arbitrary and discriminatory. IMHO, any non renewal option for commanders will eventually be rejected; either by the BoG or, litigation. This agenda item should be DOA.

[Private Investigator]

17 - PDO of the Year Award
No opinion about this one specifically, wish they would just do away with the "OTY" awards altogether, since they are
generally "OTY of those submitted", and in some cases that means an automatic win.

I think we have too many "OTY" awards too but it is the only recognition our members get.

I was once asked, "why do we not have a Personnel Officer OTY award?" So I told the Squadron Commander, "why not recommend your Personnel Officer for a ComCom?"   

[Eclipse]

17 - PDO of the Year Award
No opinion about this one specifically, wish they would just do away with the "OTY" awards altogether, since they are
generally "OTY of those submitted", and in some cases that means an automatic win.

I think we have too many "OTY" awards too but it is the only recognition our members get.

I was once asked, "why do we not have a Personnel Officer OTY award?" So I told the Squadron Commander, "why not recommend your Personnel Officer for a ComCom?"   

+1 - A decoration actually means something, can be worn / displayed, and the effort will be remembered.  Being selected "xOTY" when you're the only one nominated (and in a lot of cases not the real "xOTY", but the "real" guy's CC didn't bother, or the "real" guy said he didn't care) doesn't mean much.   We've all seen OTY's where no one even knew who the guy was, or the recipient was clearly not the "xOTY".

[Private Investigator]

On the other hand. We have seen nominations where their was no way the pilot flew 300 plus hours gave 200 O-rides and had 100 finds in a year.

[Eclipse]

On the other hand. We have seen nominations where their was no way the pilot flew 300 plus hours gave 200 O-rides and had 100 finds in a year.

Holy smokes, seriously?  I'd want to see the paper.

It's not impossible - the O-rides could be in the hours, but 100 finds in a year?  Maybe if he did NBB, had a few hurricanes, and somehow managed
to get his name on every find in the wing (which I have seen people doing).

[AirDX]

Happens in the real Air Force too - we had a guy take the bullets from our entire office and submit them as his own in his package for FGO of the year, which he won handily.

Last year we won a team of the quarter award - because the guy that submitted the package inadvertently put our statistics for the entire year in as if we'd done them in the single quarter. 

[SarDragon]

On the other hand. We have seen nominations where their was no way the pilot flew 300 plus hours gave 200 O-rides and had 100 finds in a year.

Holy smokes, seriously?  I'd want to see the paper.

It's not impossible - the O-rides could be in the hours, but 100 finds in a year?  Maybe if he did NBB, had a few hurricanes, and somehow managed
to get his name on every find in the wing (which I have seen people doing).

Back when the satellites were processing 121.5 ELTs, CAWG used to average better than a mission a day. I recall one day when we silenced eight different ELTs in one day. I might question 100 finds in a year myself, but under the right circumstances, it is certainly possible to get a large number of finds in a year.

[NIN]

I no see nuffink about no ABUs in this here agender. Perhaps it's time to put that particular deceased equine mammal to rest, eh?

"I would like to buy the tiger-stripes..."

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I no see nuffink about no ABUs in this here agender. Perhaps it's time to put that particular deceased equine mammal to rest, eh?

"I would like to buy the tiger-stripes..."

"Stop. You're giving me a brain bleed."

[Private Investigator]

Happens in the real Air Force too - we had a guy take the bullets from our entire office and submit them as his own in his package for FGO of the year, which he won handily.

Last year we won a team of the quarter award - because the guy that submitted the package inadvertently put our statistics for the entire year in as if we'd done them in the single quarter.

Happens in the police department too. I know one guy claimed 360 DUI arrests in a year. Said he had at least one on every shift he worked. I pointed out he only worked 120 shifts so he revised his claim to 120 "after" he got promoted to sergeant. Administrators, anywhere, have no clue what is going on. 

[lordmonar]

4 - Limiting What May Be Discussed As New Business

May be moot after this NB.

5 - Safety (Unit visits)

No....if SAFETY must visit.....it must visit.....a virtual visit does nothing for you.

6 - Cadet Special Activities Program & Ribbon

Sort of makes sense.....either that or just make a new ribbon....

7 - National Cadet Competition Escort Requirements

Why do we have special escort requirements for NCC?  Either be in policy or change the policy.

8 - FOUO Document Designations

Why wast the NB time on this....just add the requirement or don't.

9 - CAPR 5-4 Update

Again....staff it, write it, approve it.....move on.

10- Modification of CAPR 5-4

See above.

11 - CAP Member Meal Reimbursement Rate (increase to $35)

Makes sense.

12 - Booster Clubs

Slippery Slope.  Booster Clubs either are part of CAP....or they are not.

13 - ORMS Assignment of Aircraft

?/

14 - Flight of Non-Member Spouses in Corporate Aircraft.

NO!  If you want your spouse to fly.....pay the bloody $70 buy her/him a polo shirt and gray slacks and press on.

15 - Information Technology (IT) Mission Qualification

AS an ES specialty?   Okay....it will sit in the back of the ES training que with FLM, FSC and MC.....bottom line is that if your mission base is IT dependant....you better have someone who can work it.....ES qualified or not.

16 - Providing Casket Flags for Deceased Members

Don't waste our time and money!   If a member dies.....sure his squadron could and should provide a flag is the familiy asks for it....but let's not spend NHQ time and money on it.......it will just make a $30 flag cost $70!

17 - PDO of the Year Award

Should be a "of the Year" award for all specialty tracks.

18 - Requirement of Yeager Award for Completion of Level 3

Sounds good....but then we should just call it Senior Member AE....and eliminate the yeager ribbon and the certs.....it will just become a hoop one has to jump through and one more reason for people to not want to get their Level III.

19 - Non-Renewal of CAP Members
NO.  No....I'm sorry....not No......but HELLLLLLLLLL NOOOOOOOOOO!
Stop being lazy!  If the member is substandard......fix him or 2b him.  This wishy washy....."we want to let him go...but don't want to go through the hassle of him fighting it and getting upset and making a scene".......is just poor, lazy leadership!
It was abused in the past....it is still abused at NHQ......and will be abused even more if allowed to each and every commander.