Social Networking, and appropriate "friendships"

Started by Hawk200, May 13, 2010, 04:31:59 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Would it be acceptable for a senior member to "friend" a cadet on one of the social networking sites?

Yes, it's fine.
73 (76%)
No, it's unacceptable.
14 (14.6%)
It's fine, if the senior and cadet are related
9 (9.4%)

Total Members Voted: 96

Hawk200

This was the topic of a recent discussion. I didn't participate in the discussion, but was curious as to what some other opinions were. Have my own thoughts, but wanted some others. Would it be OK for a senior to "friend" a cadet on a social networking site?

Posted as a poll so I could get specific and simple answers. Vote changes are allowed, and please read all options before voting.

Eclipse

I voted no.

There needs to be a bright line between cadets and seniors.  I have personally been witness to several cases where in appropriate
communications between cadets and seniors resulted in x-members.

"That Others May Zoom"

BuckeyeDEJ

I don't have an issue with officers and airmen "friending" cadets on Facebook or Twitter.

The problem is in developing unprofessional relationships via those networks. And since the adult members are the accountable ones, it is they who should be responsible for misdeeds or hijinks online that affect CAP operations. Even though we just play Air Force on the weekends, and our rank and grade carries miniscule standing in comparison with Big Blue, it doesn't excuse that we conduct ourselves as officers and hold ourselves to the core values.

Integrity first.


CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group, wing, region PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member.
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now a communications manager for an international multisport venue.

Major Carrales

Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 04:34:43 AM
I voted no.

There needs to be a bright line between cadets and seniors.  I have personally been witness to several cases where in appropriate
communications between cadets and seniors resulted in x-members.

It depends on what the MYSAPCE, FACEBOOK or TWITER site is about.  If it is screened and only displays appropriate content...then there is no more problem in it than a cadet looking at a kiosk or seeing a Senior Member outside of CAP duties at a store, in passing or at some other non-CAP event.

If you are posting photos of binge-drinking or other "canoodling" (take that term in any context... ;) to the Norwegians) then the answer is the other way.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

Eclipse

#4
I agree with that - official squadron and activity sites that are moderated aren't a problem, but I don't think that's what we're really talking about.

I have inactive personal twitter and other accounts that aren't public by any means, but can be found if you care to look.  I routinely get
requests to friend, follow, etc., from cadets who I barely know or have never met.  I have no idea why, but there you go.

I also know plenty of "adults" who have open / public accounts and routinely show themselves intaking adult beverages, using "colorful language", and generally exhibiting legal but not necessarily exemplary behavior.  Not a good idea.

"That Others May Zoom"

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 04:44:34 AM
I agree with that.

But who decides where the line is, or what it entails?

Is it ok for the SM to have pictures of having a few beers at a party? Is it ok to have pictures of the SM smoking Cigars/Cigarettes? What about the cadet? (Obviously not under age, but after 18, smoking would be legal). Should it affect the CAP relationship? Does it? 

Does either party care?

I have a number of SMs who are in my network on Facebook, but most of them have minimal activity on the page, and seem to have few instances of anything I mentioned.

What about political/religious views?

Personally, I don't care, but some might.

jimmydeanno

I have about 25 of my "former" cadets (they're still cadets, but I'm no longer in their units) as "friends" on my facebook friend list.  Because I care about my reputation and web presence, regardless of who is viewing it, it isn't an issue.  My updates, pictures and comments are nothing that I wouldn't show my priest.

I don't befriend a cadet simply because they're in my unit either.  It takes a bit of time for me to get to know them, and visa-versa and determine whether or not they are capable of understanding the difference and nuances of what that relationship should be.
Usually, they end up being the cadet commanders and upper staff.  Eventually, they phase out of the cadet program and you can keep up with how they're doing and where they end up.  It's rather neat, really.

As a CP guy, I see my role as a mentor to be greater than the 2.5hrs a week that we have with them.  As a DCC, I am not off limits to any cadet.  If C/Amn Snuffy needs to talk to me about something, go for it (doesn't mean that I'll tell them how to put their collar insignia on, etc - I still send them through their chain).  Despite my easy accessibility, friendly demeanor, participation in the stuff they do, etc there has never been a situation in which they thought I was their peer or treated me as such.

If anything, the above behaviors help to improve the morale of the unit, encourage progression and retention, improve communication and build a better squadron.  I think that I should be teaching them more about leadership than how to give direct orders and drill a flight. 

YMMV.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

Eclipse

Quote from: jimmydeanno on May 13, 2010, 04:56:55 AMDespite my easy accessibility, friendly demeanor, participation in the stuff they do, etc there has never been a situation in which they thought I was their peer or treated me as such.

That's the line, but not everyone understands that.

"That Others May Zoom"

Daniel

I have the facts and I'm voting yes..

I have almost the entirety of the missouri wing on facebook..

including atleast 10 senior members and 30 cadets. (I didn't count my mother, that would technically be eleven then)


I only ever really regretted adding one senior on FB because he decided to take it upon himself to inform me that  my language was rather colourful at one time, which would be all fine if I swore every other sentence but I don't.

I don't drink, I don't smoke ANYTHING, I don't have nude or almost nude pictures, or do anything ungodly, I just swore once.

I just feel comfortable adding senior members and my parents know that I do, and my mum even added one of them to her FB!



C/Capt Daniel L, CAP
Wright Brothers No. 12670
Mitchell No. 59781
Earhart No. 15416

tsrup

Yes, but privacy settings are your friend. 

I have everyone CAP related in a CAP category on my FB account, I have the ability to exclude them from viewing anything I post, and regularly exercise that setting.  Be smart about what is seen by cadets and you should be fine.

Paramedic
hang-around.

Major Carrales

Quote from: USAFaux2004 on May 13, 2010, 04:49:04 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 04:44:34 AM
I agree with that.

But who decides where the line is, or what it entails?

Is it ok for the SM to have pictures of having a few beers at a party? Is it ok to have pictures of the SM smoking Cigars/Cigarettes? What about the cadet? (Obviously not under age, but after 18, smoking would be legal). Should it affect the CAP relationship? Does it? 

Does either party care?

I have a number of SMs who are in my network on Facebook, but most of them have minimal activity on the page, and seem to have few instances of anything I mentioned.

What about political/religious views?

Personally, I don't care, but some might.

It is each individual CAP officer's or cadet's responsibility to police themselves.  When the incidents that violate the core value of Integrity occur they can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis using existing protocols for inpropriety.

If someone has a problem with an other's religious or poltical views, that problem exists and rests in the individual reading the page.

How would one posting their religious and political views be any different that a cadet seeing a Senior Member exisiting a house of worship of their choice or at a political rally for their candidate?
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

davidsinn

I make it a personal policy of adding my cadets on facebook and myspace simply so I can see if they are doing something stupid with it and then I can point that out to them. Mainly it ends up being PERSEC issues such as name and school and what not. I pointed out to one of mine that from just her name and school I could track all the way back to her mother's maiden name and if I were bad I could use that info and go farther and really use it against them.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

JoeTomasone

I generally don't add Cadets, but I do accept requests from those I know.   I chat with them and keep up with them, counsel them if appropriate on CAP matters...   I don't see a problem with it as long as it's an extension of the same type of behavior you would conduct in front of the Cadet's parents.   


Star-Maker

Hmm.  I've added a couple of cadets on Facebook -  cadets who helped teach me at our wing's ground team trainings, with whom I was impressed and enjoyed interacting.

However, there's nothing on my Facebook that I would be uncomfortable with showing my parents, my squadron commander, or my 12 year-old brother, for instance (in fact, I have most of these people friended on FB).  Or an investigator for security clearance candidates, or whatever.  You could get a decent sense of my politics from looking at what groups I belong to, but other than one time when I lost my temper, I don't post politics in my status updates.
"The star-maker says 'It ain't so bad.'" - The Killers

GTL, GTM1, UDF, MRO

CUL(T), MS(T), MSA(T)

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 04:34:43 AM
I voted no.

There needs to be a bright line between cadets and seniors.  I have personally been witness to several cases where in appropriate
communications between cadets and seniors resulted in x-members.

yeah, that email can be quite the career killer. Just like the phone was, too.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

NIN

Quote from: jimmydeanno on May 13, 2010, 04:56:55 AM<snip>
YMMV.

This.

I have a number of cadets on my friends list on FB.  Since I'm not in CAP actively anymore, its not that much of a factor, but when I was the squadron commander,  I had a lot of my troops on my CAP friends list.

However, in EVERY instance of a cadet in CAP or the USAC on my FB friends list, they are a part of my "Limited Profile" groups as well. IOW, they can't see very much about me or my activities (I need to double check, but I think I have limited profile unable to see my status and a bunch of other things).

But I can see them and what they're up to.

Now, former cadets who are no longer in CAP or the USAC? Yeah, they can see more cuz eventually I take them out of the limited profile group.  At least,  most of them I do.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

Quote from: NIN on May 13, 2010, 03:47:17 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 04:34:43 AM
I voted no.

There needs to be a bright line between cadets and seniors.  I have personally been witness to several cases where in appropriate
communications between cadets and seniors resulted in x-members.

yeah, that email can be quite the career killer. Just like the phone was, too.

Obviously we're not talking about email here, though anything in "writing" can potentially cause issues.

We're talking about situations where seniors were engaged online in public forums using profanity, disparaging their commanders, exposing their questionable personal activity choices to cadets, and, as mentioned above, interactions between adults and teenagers as if they were peers.

The single biggest risk of the internet is access.  As a paramilitary organization we put in place some barriers between commanders and
rank and file members for a reason, the same goes for the corporate manager/employee relationship.  Since CAP is all-volunteer, those
barriers tend to be softer than the military, but they are still there for a reason.

No one with a lick of common sense would go up to a Region commander in person for a quick "holla back", same goes for most bosses, but people think nothing of doing that sort of thing through FB, etc., then they wonder why the cohesion of their units is suffering.

That doesn't even address the collateral damage of trying to be treated like a professional when your online presence is "CAPESHOTTIE", etc.

The there is the further collateral damage of whom yo associate yourself with online.

Great, you're stand-up guy, all professional, pics in perfect uniforms and nothing that could be remotely construed as anything but a
straight arrow - but unless you have a separate profile for CAP (a god idea), you have no control over what others do on their profiles,
and by the time you realize that you have a problem, it may be too late.

Then there's the privacy aspects and whether they actually work - NIN thinks he probably has things set properly.  Hope so.  And hope even more that FB doesn't decide tomorrow that you have need to be more "open" and reset all your setting to allow more advertising.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/05/11/businessinsider-facebooks-response-to-privacy-concerns-if-youre-not-comfortable-sharing-dont-2010-5.DTL

Or twitter burps and exposes your "private" profile to everyone,but that would never happen, right?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/twitter/7713392/Turkish-student-apologises-for-bringing-down-Twitter-but-denies-being-a-hacker.html




"That Others May Zoom"

Fifinella

Like others above, I have cadet and former cadet "friends", but they have limited access to content.  It is a convenient way to mentor and stay in touch.
Judy LaValley, Maj, CAP
Asst. DCP, LAWG
SWR-LA-001
GRW #2753

jimmydeanno

Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 04:17:11 PM
...disparaging their commanders...

Maybe the commanders should take not of the actions that are getting them disparaged and see if it's legitimate.  Might be a good catalyst for change.   >:D
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

tdepp

Quote from: tsrup on May 13, 2010, 05:54:26 AM
Yes, but privacy settings are your friend. 

I have everyone CAP related in a CAP category on my FB account, I have the ability to exclude them from viewing anything I post, and regularly exercise that setting.  Be smart about what is seen by cadets and you should be fine.
Rupster:
PM me when you get a chance on how to set that up.  Sounds like a good solution.
Todd
Todd D. Epp, LL.M., Capt, CAP
Sioux Falls Composite Squadron Deputy Commander for Seniors
SD Wing Public Affairs Officer
Wing website: http://sdcap.us    Squadron website: http://www.siouxfallscap.com
Author of "This Day in Civil Air Patrol History" @ http://caphistory.blogspot.com

NIN

#20
Of course, all of this gets back to the concept of appropriate behavior. 

I'm sure in a lot of ways this conversation was had (albeit in a different format) when the phone came into widespread use and people became "less formal" over the phone due to its distance and anonymity.

And email.

And forums.

And Facebook.

And Twitter.

As I've said before, I worked at a college for 4 years.  The students I saw come thru there were not terribly technically savvy, and the worst part was, they had zero understanding of appropriate behavior outside of their parents house (and in some cases, I think they didn't have any understanding of appropriate behavior IN mom & dad's place, either!), whether online or not.

I don't expect the kid who I just caught trying to hack my firewall to stand at parade rest in front of my desk, but sit up straight in the @##$% chair and pull your @##$ pants up, you little punk :)  And I'm not your "dude," or your "bro."

Same goes for behavior online.   A try to guide my behaviors online with "If I had to stand in front of my commander and read my post/blog/FB status/twitter out loud, would I be embarrassed, ashamed or proud?  What about reading that same to my mom (who is on FB!) or my grandparents?  What about my boss?"

Its like that "If my actions were on the front page of the paper, could I defend what I did legitimately?"

I think a lot of cadets don't get that idea.  I think a fair number of adults don't get that either. And FB/Twitter/MyFaceSpaceforTwits makes it worse.

But I don't think that the MyFaceSpaceforTwits is to blame. Its the individuals. 

Hundreds of thousands of people every day talk about all manner of things online with no ill effect.  Because they pay attention to what they're doing/writing/saying and how they're behaving.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

The real question is...

What is so hyper-critical about where you are or what you are doing that it needs to be posted at all?

"That Others May Zoom"

Grumpy

Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on May 13, 2010, 04:39:18 AM
I don't have an issue with officers and airmen "friending" cadets on Facebook or Twitter.

The problem is in developing unprofessional relationships via those networks. And since the adult members are the accountable ones, it is they who should be responsible for misdeeds or hijinks online that affect CAP operations. Even though we just play Air Force on the weekends, and our rank and grade carries miniscule standing in comparison with Big Blue, it doesn't excuse that we conduct ourselves as officers and hold ourselves to the core values.

Integrity first.
Man, you get that right.  I developed a relationship with a cadet once and she became my wife for 29 years.  Gotta watch those off duty relationships.

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 04:53:53 PM
The real question is...

What is so hyper-critical about where you are or what you are doing that it needs to be posted at all?

I don't know.  Whats so hyper critical about where you are and what you're doing that you need to carry a cell phone, for example?   (I just had this convo with someone the other day: what the _hell_ did we do to coordinate things before we had cell phones?  We must have been just one gigantic ball of missed opportunities and people standing on curbs or sitting in restaurants waiting for everybody else to never show up...)

Apparently, Bob, you feel that what you do/think is only important to you.  Hey, that's awesome.   Thats not how others think.

However, thats an awfully broad brush to paint EVERYBODY who uses social media with.   

Its not like I'm some emo teenager angsting over every last little pimple via Facebook.    Those people do exist.  I think they're knuckleheads.  But thats not _everybody_ who uses social media sites & methods to increase their circle of communication.

Cuz if it was, Fortune 500 corporations would not be spending hundreds of millions of dollars on Social Media, Social Networking and the like.

Call me crazy.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

AirAux

I would like to add to this posting.  I recently found out abut an outstanding cadet that was headed to the AFA.  Unfortunately, a wing legal officer who is also an AFA liaison officer, found some of the cadet stuff on FB.  Some of it was cursing and some of it was personal opinions of old white haired men and their need to die off.  The SM upon reading the stuff went to the Wing CO to see about 2'bing said cadet.  The Wing CO said this stuff was being looked at by National and policy would someday come down and not to worry about it.  The SM took the cadet's AFA application and threw it in the trash.  When I found out about it, i asked the SM if he had told the cadet why he wasn't going to the AFA and he said no.  I said he should so the cadet would at least learn from his mistake.  Now, I am really torn by all of this.  The cadet was highly intelligent and his postings showed great ability along with a lack of discretion.  I think he would have made a great officer and leader someday.  The AFA would have helped him develop I believe.  Now, he is screwed to put it mildly.  I am torn because the reality of the younger generation is much different than that of the older gen.  The younger gen has been exposed to much more than the older ones.  They grew up on FB and feel their postings are nothing more than free speech and they don't have a good understanding of the consequences from same.  I also feel that the older ones need to be a little bit more compassionate with all of this and try to bring some understanding and acceptance when dealing with these matters.  I don't approve of all of it, but it is a different time and place and we have to accept change.  What does everyone else feel about this??     

Eclipse

#25
Quote from: NIN on May 13, 2010, 05:13:18 PM
Cuz if it was, Fortune 500 corporations would not be spending hundreds of millions of dollars on Social Media, Social Networking and the like.

Call me crazy.

Because if people are stupid enough to join a "community" focused on their washing machine and self-promote a brand, why wouldn't
the company encourage that behavior?  Its literally the dream of every marketing guy ever born - and that's all "social media" is - marketing.  Whether you are promoting the latest gadget you got, where you are eating, or the latest result of your last meal, in the end its just a "new" way to sell soap.

Adults with real lives do not wander aimlessly around town looking for random connections or desperately hoping one of their "friends"
is in proximity to them for a meal.  Neither do they have time for the random musings of someone as they wander through their day -
how vacant and lonely are we as a society?  Then the best part is that once they do meet someone in person, they aren't actually "there", because they are too busy telling everyone who isn't there where they are.

Posting photos of your first born so grandma in another city can see him is one thing - electing yourself "mayor" of a Starbucks because you spend too much time there is just narcissistic nonsense.  Fed and eaten by people with low self-esteem who need to feel important about "something".

"That Others May Zoom"

tdepp

^^^^
Mayor Eclipse:

I thought you were the Mayor of Starbucks!  I was going to ask you to name me City Attorney for the City of Starbucks.  Man, way to kill a guy's dreams!  :P
Todd D. Epp, LL.M., Capt, CAP
Sioux Falls Composite Squadron Deputy Commander for Seniors
SD Wing Public Affairs Officer
Wing website: http://sdcap.us    Squadron website: http://www.siouxfallscap.com
Author of "This Day in Civil Air Patrol History" @ http://caphistory.blogspot.com

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 05:43:16 PMFed and eaten by people with low self-esteem who need to feel important about "something".

Awww, man, I was going to take a handful of pills and then lock myself in my garage with the running car until you let me in on what was causing my low self-esteem.

@#$% you, Eclipse!

>:D

(Note to the humor challenged: I was joking about the @#$% part..)
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Lancer

Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 05:43:16 PM
Adults with real lives do not wander aimlessly around town looking for random connections or desperately hoping one of their "friends"
is in proximity to them for a meal.

Hey Bob.... I found a couple great sites you'll just love, they're right up your anti-social 'networking' alley.   ;D

http://www.isolatr.com/

and

http://airbagindustries.com/introvertster/

raivo

Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 05:43:16 PMAdults with real lives do not wander aimlessly around town looking for random connections or desperately hoping one of their "friends"
is in proximity to them for a meal.  Neither do they have time for the random musings of someone as they wander through their day -
how vacant and lonely are we as a society?  Then the best part is that once they do meet someone in person, they aren't actually "there", because they are too busy telling everyone who isn't there where they are.

JUST IN: Society and its communication methods evolve with technology. Details at 11.

CAP Member, 2000-20??
USAF Officer, 2009-2018
Recipient of a Mitchell Award Of Irrelevant Number

"No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection-ready unit has ever survived combat."

JC004

Quote from: raivo on May 13, 2010, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 05:43:16 PMAdults with real lives do not wander aimlessly around town looking for random connections or desperately hoping one of their "friends"
is in proximity to them for a meal.  Neither do they have time for the random musings of someone as they wander through their day -
how vacant and lonely are we as a society?  Then the best part is that once they do meet someone in person, they aren't actually "there", because they are too busy telling everyone who isn't there where they are.

JUST IN: Society and its communication methods evolve with technology. Details at 11.

Bob...you clearly spend a lot of time offline...Most Time Online:   Eclipse   94d 18h 33m  (that is the most on the whole forum, just for reference)

NIN

Quote from: JC004 on May 13, 2010, 06:50:10 PM
Bob...you clearly spend a lot of time offline...Most Time Online:   Eclipse   94d 18h 33m  (that is the most on the whole forum, just for reference)

But of course. Without all that MyFaceSpaceForTwits cloggin' up his CAP-Talk time, I'd expect that.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

#32
Quote from: NIN on May 13, 2010, 06:53:25 PM
Quote from: JC004 on May 13, 2010, 06:50:10 PM
Bob...you clearly spend a lot of time offline...Most Time Online:   Eclipse   94d 18h 33m  (that is the most on the whole forum, just for reference)

But of course. Without all that MyFaceSpaceForTwits cloggin' up his CAP-Talk time, I'd expect that.

I am tethered 24x7 to the net, and I love every minute of it - I am not a curmudgeon, I just understand how the real world works, and have lived through the evolution of this narcissism.  I worked for USR before x2 and when Palm owned the universe, and have had a "real" email address since 1994 - not a pioneer, but BTDT.  Those that feel like it can find blogs I did back when blogs were actually new and cool, and to my surprise I actually had a fair amount of people who checked me out daily (lord knows why).

Captalk and CS (and once in a huge while on forums.military) are literally the only communities I participate in, and I'm showing online a ton because I usually have it open in a Chrome tab along with a number of other sites.

What amazes me is how many of the posters here are active contributors to 28 other related sites and engage in the same arguments on all those sites as here and CS, and that doesn't include unrelated sites, (FB, MS, Twit, 4 Square) as well.  Talk about time-wasting awards.

The savior will be when Google enables the check-in feature on latitude, which will overnight kill the smaller services - heck I might even participate, since a number of adults I know actually use these services.  A single service that actually had the people I care about involved is a lot more compelling than having to subscribe to at least 5 or more and spread the message all over the place.

"That Others May Zoom"

JC004

Silly Bob, you can sync them!  Post to 'em at the same time!   ;D

Eclipse

Quote from: JC004 on May 13, 2010, 07:22:13 PM
Silly Bob, you can sync them!  Post to 'em at the same time!   ;D

Yeah, thanks.  Duh.

Next you can explain to me why any single person cares about the goings on of 1500 people they follow on twitter and how anyone has the mental bandwidth for that.  If every person sends just one message it takes like an hour to read them, not including responses.

The average huiman being can only really "know" about 20 people.

"That Others May Zoom"

JC004

No problem.

If you look at the statistics on Twitter, Facebook, etc., most people don't follow (friend, whatever) nearly that many people.  Few people have that many followers on Twitter.  That is well into the top single-digit percentages of users.  People do this for marketing, friendship, news, access.  I've recruited volunteers this way, met interesting people (then in person), gone to interesting places, got behind-the-scenes access to things. 

Just as with a news site, CNN, MSNBC, Fox, WSJ Online, etc. - you don't read all of the news stories, do you?  But you do read some.  Tagging, search, etc. makes categories.  You do the things that interest you.  I don't really need to "know" everything about some of the people that I've met.  Nonetheless, we've had interesting and beneficial interactions.

Eagle400

I say it's fine... so long as it does not constitute conflict of interest/fraternization. 

Because if it does, then a whole lot of bigger problems can ensue. 

NIN

Quote from: raivo on May 13, 2010, 06:35:17 PM
JUST IN: Society and its communication methods evolve with technology. Details at 11.

"Dr. Maslow, while commenting on the popularity of MyFaceSpace, admits that he may have accidentally built his classic 'hierarchy of needs' pyramid in an inverse order.  He further commented that he has since removed 'self-actualization' from the list, since in his words: 'I realized that nobody gets it. Not even me.'"
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 07:19:53 PM
<snip>
The savior will be when Google enables the check-in feature on latitude, which will overnight kill the smaller services - heck I might even participate, since a number of adults I know actually use these services.  A single service that actually had the people I care about involved is a lot more compelling than having to subscribe to at least 5 or more and spread the message all over the place.

Hey, whoa. Finally something we can agree on! :)
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

Quote from: raivo on May 13, 2010, 06:35:17 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 05:43:16 PMAdults with real lives do not wander aimlessly around town looking for random connections or desperately hoping one of their "friends"
is in proximity to them for a meal.  Neither do they have time for the random musings of someone as they wander through their day -
how vacant and lonely are we as a society?  Then the best part is that once they do meet someone in person, they aren't actually "there", because they are too busy telling everyone who isn't there where they are.

JUST IN: Society and its communication methods evolve with technology. Details at 11.

"I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're using here: it didn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility... for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox..."

"...your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should..."

Dr. Ian Malcolm

"Social Media" - A service that forces you to be rude to the people you are with, so you can stay in touch with people you aren't, assuming  you actually leave your mom's basement at all.

"That Others May Zoom"

JC004

Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 07:55:00 PM
...
"Social Media" - A service that forces you to be rude to the people you are with, so you can stay in touch with people you aren't, assuming  you actually leave your mom's basement at all.

What requires you to use it at certain times?   :o

heliodoc

^^^^ About social media and rudeness

Why worry about FB, Twitter, etc  when one can get all the rudeness and free abuse whether jokingly or not...

You can get ALLLL that here and more at CAPTalk ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why worry about social media??

JC004

Quote from: heliodoc on May 13, 2010, 08:06:08 PM
^^^^ About social media and rudeness

Why worry about FB, Twitter, etc  when one can get all the rudeness and free abuse whether jokingly or not...

You can get ALLLL that here and more at CAPTalk ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why worry about social media??

Exactly.  Now go away.  Never mind, I shall ignore you.  If you want, find me on Twitter or Facebook so I can be rude to you there too.  ttys!

heliodoc

^^^^^^

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

RiverAux

I haven't friended any current cadets, but have one former cadet from back when I was a commander.  I think I'd probably say that it isn't a great idea in general.  Not sure I'm on board with the idea of friending them just so I can go bigbrother and monitor their activities either.  You could look at it as a way to mentor them to keep them out of trouble (ref the AFA example), but it seems a little too big brotherish to me.  Plus, I know someone that got slammed hard for critisizing a cadet outside the scope of a CAP activity. 

Eclipse

Quote from: JC004 on May 13, 2010, 08:01:27 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 13, 2010, 07:55:00 PM
...
"Social Media" - A service that forces you to be rude to the people you are with, so you can stay in touch with people you aren't, assuming  you actually leave your mom's basement at all.

What requires you to use it at certain times?   :o

Nothing at all, but if you've ever spent time with people really invested in them, you'd know they are never "now", because they are always worried about "next".

"That Others May Zoom"

raivo

I have, as of this moment, 380 friends on Facebook. Pretty mixed bunch - OTS classmates, people I went to college with, a few childhood friends, etc. By and large, they're people who I'm not around any more, but whose lives I do have an interest in. I can't manually keep track of 380 people's lives, but with Facebook, I can. I can say "Going to ___ for a few weeks for training" and reconnect with someone that I didn't know had moved to ___.

I could go on at length about this, but "I'm not interested in it" != "it's pointless." I don't use Twitter (mainly because I don't see what it does that Facebook doesn't), but apparently some people find it useful. Good for them.

Anyways...

I'm friends with a few cadets from my last squadron on Facebook. One of them messaged me awhile back to ask me if I could find something out from the ROTC graduates I know. Then again, I don't have anything particularly objectionable on my profile (other than listing myself as a Marilyn Manson fan >:D) that I wouldn't want them to see.

CAP Member, 2000-20??
USAF Officer, 2009-2018
Recipient of a Mitchell Award Of Irrelevant Number

"No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection-ready unit has ever survived combat."

tdepp

Quote from: NIN on May 13, 2010, 07:46:20 PM
Quote from: raivo on May 13, 2010, 06:35:17 PM
JUST IN: Society and its communication methods evolve with technology. Details at 11.

"Dr. Maslow, while commenting on the popularity of MyFaceSpace, admits that he may have accidentally built his classic 'hierarchy of needs' pyramid in an inverse order.  He further commented that he has since removed 'self-actualization' from the list, since in his words: 'I realized that nobody gets it. Not even me.'"
:clap: Bravo. Genius.  This may be the best comment I've read on CT.  Dennis Miller just called in and gave his kudos as well, cha-cha.
Todd D. Epp, LL.M., Capt, CAP
Sioux Falls Composite Squadron Deputy Commander for Seniors
SD Wing Public Affairs Officer
Wing website: http://sdcap.us    Squadron website: http://www.siouxfallscap.com
Author of "This Day in Civil Air Patrol History" @ http://caphistory.blogspot.com

JC004

This is an interesting topic, though.  As a young senior member, until fairly recently, a bunch of my friends from my cadet days were still cadets.  I turned over to The Dark Side early and became a flight officer, which meant that a lot of cadets were older than me.  That's a rough situation.  Your friends who were your fellow cadets yesterday before you signed the paperwork are suddenly a different classification of membership.  A few years ago, I was an 18/19 year old senior member with cadets who were a couple years older than me. 

I've had Facebook since it was founded - 2004.  So, I left the friends in there.  I wasn't going to go delete friends suddenly because I had signed a paper.  I added a couple after the transition, but am generally careful about it.  I don't post the sort of things that would set a bad example for them.  Facebook is a web site - not an intimate relationship.  It all depends on how you use it.  If I were the sort of person who was out drinking and partying, then plastering that all over Facebook, that'd probably be an issue and wouldn't be ok by my standard. 

wuzafuzz

#49
Provided you keep you communications professional I see no problem with senior members having cadets as Facebook friends.  In fact, communicating on a social networking site may be safer than "real world" conversations, since what happens on Facebook is there for everyone to see.  No one knows what you and that cadet are discussing out in the hallway...   >:D

If I got stupid on Facebook, with a cadet or anyone else, most of my squadron would know about it in 10 minutes. 

I am not very familiar with the other social networking sites, except to say that what I've seen of MySpace made me fear for the future of our country.  ;-)


"You can't stop the signal, Mal."

NIN

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

heliodoc

That IS Good , NIN!!

Especially FNG in the background and the whole clip would behoooooooove CAP to do the same

Just in case some did not get your drift!! >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D

a2capt

That they have these examples to use ... means they happened, usually.

Amazing. Some may blame the beer, but .. some don't have it all upstairs in the first place.

Eagle400

#53
Guys n' Gals...

Too much thinking about this... More reading into it, than problem preparation/study

Quote from: MyselfI say it's fine... so long as it does not constitute conflict of interest/fraternization.

Because if it does, then a whole lot of bigger problems can ensue.


In other words, not while the Senior and Cadet are both members of CAP, simultaneously.

And of course there's common sense... Like, not breaking State Law.

Bottom Line: This rule is in effect 24/7... Even though CAP is (technically) a part-time commitment. 

Gosh, I didn't take this to heart until after I left CAP.  Sad, but true.


Hopefully folks can learn from my mistake.  It's not worth it, being one person for school... a different one for CAP... and another at home.  For 8 years, I was frying bacon without an apron.  Life was not fun, except for some happy moments.

Oh yeah... In keeping on topic... I was a different person on Facebook, this site, CadetStuff, and other internet forums too.  Suffice it to say, Earhart #11826 has had some major issues.  (And still does, though not as bad [words of others]). 

Don't do what I did.

PhoenixRisen

I'm friends with scores of people from CAP ranging from C/Col's to C/AB's, commanders to chaplains, and various other people.  If there's no "questionable content", what's the problem?  Anything "bad" that happens via social media can happen through just about any other form of communication.  Blame the act and person, not the vehicle used to communicate that message.

Eagle400

Quote from: PhoenixCadet on May 16, 2010, 07:00:20 AM
I'm friends with scores of people from CAP ranging from C/Col's to C/AB's, commanders to chaplains, and various other people.  If there's no "questionable content", what's the problem?  Anything "bad" that happens via social media can happen through just about any other form of communication.  Blame the act and person, not the vehicle used to communicate that message.

Same here. 

And 99.9% of this is just applying common sense, and acting accordingly. 

Unfortunately, what many people fail to take into account... is what image may be portrayed, when one gets too close to another (verbally, through correspondence, etc). 

Remember: just the appearance of impropriety is bad.  Perception is usually reality, in this context.  (Even if said perception is based on assumption, hearsay, gossip, etc.)   

Mustang

Quote from: tsrup on May 13, 2010, 05:54:26 AM
Yes, but privacy settings are your friend. 

I have everyone CAP related in a CAP category on my FB account, I have the ability to exclude them from viewing anything I post, and regularly exercise that setting.  Be smart about what is seen by cadets and you should be fine.
+1

I've been "befriended" by a number of cadets on Facebook, but they all go into a "Cadets" category, which I've set up to shield from all my posts, status updates, etc by default.
"Amateurs train until they get it right; Professionals train until they cannot get it wrong. "


a2capt

On the lighter side of things, your comment of Earhart #11826 had some issues .. of course made me curious to visit the search engine..

Based on those results, some people might be forced to believe that Amelia Earhart, like Elvis, is alive and well. Of course, a little deeper digging, reality sets in.. She's simply not downloadable from Rapidshare, but various linkfarm sites would have you think so:

Quote from: Google Search ResultsAmelia earhart rapidshare » Free Downloads RapidShare - MegaUpload ...
Amelia earhart is available on a new high speed direct download ... Amelia
earhart rapidshare rapidshare hotfile megaupload, Amelia earhart ...
rapidshare-catalog.com/file/amelia+earhart+rapidshare.html
IOW.. certainly don't believe at first glance, what you read online  ;D

JC004

Quote from: CCSE on May 16, 2010, 06:00:17 AM
...
Oh yeah... In keeping on topic... I was a different person on Facebook, this site, CadetStuff, and other internet forums too.  Suffice it to say, Earhart #11826 has had some major issues.  (And still does, though not as bad [words of others]). 
...

So I am assuming that you go by "Earhart #11826" in all of these places and that the consolidation of your identities is why you are no longer called Smitty?

Eclipse

#59
...

"That Others May Zoom"

Eagle400

For those who don't believe I was an Earhart cadet:





:)

JC004

First, GAAAAAAAH WITH THE DOUBLE POSTING.

Second, who said that you aren't an Earhart cadet?!

a2capt

Yeah. I never said that, but other than the hint of curiosity that you dropped with "Suffice it to say, Earhart #11826 has had some major issues.", I just had to go googl'in to see what it was all about ..  I wasn't looking for confirmation.

JC004

I thought that all of the time between when you quit CAPTalk in a huff (invoking MLK, Jr. for some reason) and now would be sufficient time for you to chillax.  That may not be the case.  Take a deep breath. 

billford1

#64
As for Face Book I think it's ok. It's not like you're on the phone.  I was a Cadet many years ago and I don't recall many Senior Members who were approachable for conversation or advice. My Son called me one day and asked me what in the world I was doing on Face Book? He was surprised when I told him that I had reconnected with a number of former co-workers from Ft Lauderdale.  As for me I'm fine with being in contact on face Book. As for Cadets it's important for them to see a leader who is approachable and helpful in a way that their Parents and CAP Leadership would approve of.

tdepp

Quote from: CCSE on May 16, 2010, 09:54:09 PM
For those who don't believe I was an Earhart cadet:





:)
Three middle names? My son has two and everyone thinks that's a little odd. 

Sincerely,

Abdul Chang Xavier David Epp, AKA tdepp  ;)
Todd D. Epp, LL.M., Capt, CAP
Sioux Falls Composite Squadron Deputy Commander for Seniors
SD Wing Public Affairs Officer
Wing website: http://sdcap.us    Squadron website: http://www.siouxfallscap.com
Author of "This Day in Civil Air Patrol History" @ http://caphistory.blogspot.com

Dragon 3-2

Since im a recent senior member / former cadet, I already had half of the wings cadets on my friend list before I crossed over, and I still chat with them from time to time about the old times, and what their doing now

Captain  Steven Smith
Aerospace Education Officer
NJ-102 Plainfield Red Falcons
Eaker #2089
2009 NJWG / NER Dragon Drill Team

Eagle400

Ok.  Sorry for the Earhart certificate.  That was dumb. 




Back to topic...

Facebook, MySpace, et. al. are great tools for keeping in touch with friends.  However, Social Media is a slippery slope (esp. in the context of CAP). 

One problem right off the bat, is the appearance of fraternization.  If a DCC befriends a C/Amn of the same squadron, it can look bad (even if the wrongdoing is only implied, and nothing more). 

Another issue --along those lines-- is how a social network connection (such as the one above) interfere with communication up and down the Chain of Command. 

The DCC can (and would most likely) get overwhelmed with requests, demands, etc. by the cadets connected to him, through Facebook (as an example).

Quote from: DCC in hot water"Oh my goodness... This was a bad idea.  I can't keep up; I should've never FB-friended these cadets (who I don't even know).  And now the CC is knows about it, and probably thinks there's foul play going on... Esp. with the female cadets.  And all because we are connected through Facebook."

Don't be that guy.     


biomed441

^^^

Not in 100% disagreement, but I think its really a matter of how you approach who the individuals are, and your role in the squadron.

I like your example of the DCC. As DCC at my squadron I certainly see where there could be some concerns with friending cadets. However; I have recieved several friend requests from cadets in the squadron. I accept their requests and generally they leave me alone. I also find its quite the policing tool to tell if a cadets reason for not showing up to a meeting are true  >:D

Cadet Joe Bob calls his flight sergeant and says he cant make it to the meeting because of a school function. Information makes its way to me through the chain of command for aproval. Metting goes as planned and concludes. I come home check my facebook to see that cadet Joe Bob posted pictures of himself hanging out with friends at a party when he said he was at a school function... Social network sites can be a useful tool when used right. As someone else mentioned earlier though, it depends on the context in which the page is being used. Just use good judgement and I really dont see a problem with it.

raivo

Quote from: Captainbob441 on May 22, 2010, 09:16:00 PM
Cadet Joe Bob calls his flight sergeant and says he cant make it to the meeting because of a school function. Information makes its way to me through the chain of command for aproval. Metting goes as planned and concludes. I come home check my facebook to see that cadet Joe Bob posted pictures of himself hanging out with friends at a party when he said he was at a school function... Social network sites can be a useful tool when used right. As someone else mentioned earlier though, it depends on the context in which the page is being used. Just use good judgement and I really dont see a problem with it.

Like this:

http://i48.tinypic.com/28hjz43.jpg

CAP Member, 2000-20??
USAF Officer, 2009-2018
Recipient of a Mitchell Award Of Irrelevant Number

"No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection-ready unit has ever survived combat."

RADIOMAN015

Quote from: raivo on May 23, 2010, 12:59:37 AM
Quote from: Captainbob441 on May 22, 2010, 09:16:00 PM
Cadet Joe Bob calls his flight sergeant and says he cant make it to the meeting because of a school function. Information makes its way to me through the chain of command for aproval. Metting goes as planned and concludes. I come home check my facebook to see that cadet Joe Bob posted pictures of himself hanging out with friends at a party when he said he was at a school function... Social network sites can be a useful tool when used right. As someone else mentioned earlier though, it depends on the context in which the page is being used. Just use good judgement and I really dont see a problem with it.

Like this:

http://i48.tinypic.com/28hjz43.jpg
Honestly, who's got the time to do all this investigating that cadet x didn't show up for a meeting :o  Let the cadet staff do this sort of thing.

As far as senior members associating with cadets on social networks, perhaps the best thing is to go back to the basics of the "cadet protection program"...  Simply don't do it, your world won't end and neither will theirs. :angel:
RM

Eclipse

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 23, 2010, 01:33:03 AM
As far as senior members associating with cadets on social networks, perhaps the best thing is to go back to the basics of the "cadet protection program"...  Simply don't do it, your world won't end and neither will theirs.

+1

"That Others May Zoom"

Eagle400

Concur 100%. 

Just the appearance of impropriety is bad.

The best policy for FB relations --in this context-- is no interaction.   


NIN

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 23, 2010, 01:33:03 AM
Honestly, who's got the time to do all this investigating that cadet x didn't show up for a meeting :o  Let the cadet staff do this sort of thing.

I don't think anybody is "investigating" anything, really.

I used to work at a college.  Come RA selection time, they'd interview the prospective RAs and of course every RA candidate claims to be as pure as the driven snow, never breaks the rules, is an awesome role model, etc. 

Then the director of student life remembers the photos of an RA candidate on FB from some drunken bash held earlier that spring.  He goes back, looks, and sure enough, there's the RA candidate with his arm wrapped around a female freshman, beer bottle in one hand.   Freshman is < 21.  RA candidate at the time was < 21.   Never breaks the rules, huh?

Now, I can't tell you the number of times I've heard students say "But my Facebook is PRIVATE."    Yeah, no its not. 

If:
a) You've friended up the res-life folks on MyFaceSpace; and
b) You're doing dumb things that are against the rules; and
c) There are photos of it on MyFaceSpace; and
d) You claim you don't do those things (ie. you lie)

then

= "You're a rule breaking liar who shouldn't be an RA anyway.."

That's so darn simple that explaining this to people who *should* know better hurts my soul.

Seriously:  I had a kid one day who came into my office and demanded that the IT department restrict the ability of the faculty and staff to access to MyFaceSpace.   I nearly fell off my chair as to his reasoning.  He was pissed that he ditched his 8am class due to being "partied out" and the prof dinged him on his attendance, and then dinged him on being a liar when the kid claimed it was because he had car trouble.  Just like the aforementioned sick leave link, this kid had posted on his FB at about 4am that he was "so wasted" and that he was "gonna sleep in, screw my 8am class."  The prof noticed the status update (not hard: the prof was FB friends with the kid), the kid didn't show up to class, so the prof put him down as "absent."   But then when he protested the absence, he lied about the reason, and the prof knew otherwise.   Did I mention that the class was "Ethics?"  Sweet irony.



I suggested that perhaps his parents should have imbued him with a better sense of personal responsibility for his actions and told him that if he kept it up _his_ ability to access the Internet would be limited to a small platoon of gnomes assigned to carry his data packets to and from the router closet.

I am IRL friends with a guy who is a retired state trooper and the chief of police in a small NH town.  I trust Dave implicitly, and I know that he's a serious "law and order" kind of guy.  He might write his mom a speeding ticket.    Now, if I was dumb enough to have illegal narcotics or other substances in my car, would I tell a cop this?  And if I did, and I get busted for illegal drugs, is it my fault or Dave's fault?

Its the _same_ thing.  The mechanism is different (FB "friend" vs IRL "friend") but its not the mechanism that's the problem. It would be my dumbass decision-making skills of telling a cop that I'm a knucklehead.


QuoteAs far as senior members associating with cadets on social networks, perhaps the best thing is to go back to the basics of the "cadet protection program"...  Simply don't do it, your world won't end and neither will theirs.

Yeah, thank god I don't follow that line of reasoning, otherwise every time I encounter a cadet at Friendly's or Dunkin' Donuts, I might have to run screaming from the establishment lest I "associate" with a cadet.  (ie. I ran into one of my former cadets just last night at a local restaurant. I was with my girlfriend and her son, but he was alone.  He was polite and respectful, we chatted for a minute about CAP and that was that..) 

Heaven forbid I should run into one of my cadets while I'm going to see Star Trek alone in the theater.  Which one of us is it incumbent upon to leave?   :o

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Spike


Nathan

NIN makes a good point. A cadet seeing the personal side of you doesn't mean that the cadet automatically loses all respect for you as a commander. If you really can't manage to be a professional commander and your own self at the same time (to a reasonable degree), that either indicates that you have some questionable habits that may not lend themselves well to working with cadets anyway, or you simply are the kind of person you are as a commander ALL the time, just because that's your personality.

Obviously, we all dampen certain aspects of who we are when we're in uniform, but not everyone does so because we're ashamed for enjoying things that CAP doesn't necessarily approve of. Some people do it just because some aspects or behaviors in our lives don't lend themselves in any way to the CAP mission, and since CAP is a mission-oriented program, there is no excuse for these behaviors or aspects of our lives to even come up.

When I talk with cadets (assuming they aren't close friends of mine who happen to also be cadets), even on Facebook, I write the message the same way that I would if I were sending an email to the cadet. And I certainly know where the line is. A cadet tried to use FB chat to shoot the breeze about his girlfriend, and I told him that I really am not in a position to be talking with him like that, but that I would be more than happy to help with any CAP questions. Even when I'm congratulating someone on an award (which I usually only know due to a Facebook update), I do so in the same way as if I were standing there.

But I would feel no more ashamed of a cadet reading a pro-gay rights paper I've written on Facebook than I would to be seen by that cadet at a pro-gay rights rally, because I'm not ashamed of being pro-gay rights, and I am not ashamed that people in CAP know about it. Nor would I worry about a cadet seeing me enjoying a vodka shot on Facebook any more than a cadet who happens to see me enjoying a beer at a restaurant. I am legally allowed to drink, and while drinking has no place in CAP, that doesn't mean that I have to erase it entirely from my life (so long as I'm responsible).

This is the equivalent to a cadet having to cover up the fact that he plays piano because it has nothing to do with CAP. While I don't think that the cadet playing piano has any potential to be useful for CAP, and therefore would not encourage its discussion as a good use of time, the cadet playing the piano is perfectly acceptable as a personal hobby.

Of course, there are the cases mentioned where the senior members cross the line in terms of maintaining a professional line between cadets and seniors, and start actively INVOLVING cadets in their personal lives rather than simply not hiding it from them. That's a different story, and absolutely is not okay.

But even when our "personal" lives are public, we can still keep them separate from each other. In fact, the harder you work to make yourself the robotic, impersonal commander, the bigger fuss it's going to cause when any aspect of your personal life gets out.
Nathan Scalia

The post beneath this one is a lie.

Eagle400

NIN for the Win! 

:clap:

Couldn't have said it better myself!

The 'double-life' mentality is a cancer that must be cut out, and first by the individual who holds it.  Split-Personality Disorder (or whatever it's called) kills the mind and rots the soul.  It's just as harmful to the victim(s), as it is to the perpetrator.  No matter how giddy the liar may be, deep down inside, he/she is miserable.     

For example...

Trying to be James Bond, Klaus Hergeshimer, Blofeld 1 and Blofeld 2, is psychotic.  Not even Sean Connery would attempt that.  No way.     

Now as Bond, Connery did have to assume the Hergeshimer identity... But was still true to himself.  Why? 

Because it was with good intent, and the false identity was required in order to complete a worthy mission.  Essentially, he lied to the wrongdoers so the truth could be known by the good guys.   

(Ref. Diamonds are Forever)

Now... how does this relate to Facebook? 

Those who live a lie, do all they can to match-up their words and actions everywhere... Whether it's on Facebook or true human interaction.  This is self-defeating however; if one lives a lie, it will come out... If not in their actions, certainly words.

Put differently: If one lives the truth, then there's no need to worry about being "found-out".  Instead of trying to be 4 different people, he/she is comfortable with having only one.  The person knows fully, that there's everything to gain by living the truth (and everything to lose, by living a lie).

Our biggest challenge, is convincing young people they've got nothing to lose by living the truth.  Simply telling it is not enough; we must live it too!     

Eclipse

There is a huge difference between living a lie and living publicly.

I would like to know the value to Nathan of posting photos of him drinking, legal or otherwise.

Considering the largely ignored recent poop storm regarding Facebook's lack of respect for people's privacy, their login banner should be:

"Just because you do something, doesn't mean the rest of the world has to know about it..."

"That Others May Zoom"

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on May 24, 2010, 09:24:43 PM
There is a huge difference between living a lie and living publicly.

I would like to know the value to Nathan of posting photos of him drinking, legal or otherwise.

Yeah, can't say as I disagree there.  There might be a photo or two of me out there someplace with a beer in hand, but I'd be really surprised if there are.

When you're newly 21, there is some personal value in it, I suppose.  At 43, a photo of me like that would be captioned 'NIN, about 45 seconds before he fell asleep.'

There is not really any intrinsic value to photos of certain activities winding up on FB.  I *could* prance around with a palm frond covering my nether regions, but is it really necessary and appropriate? No.


Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
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Fifinella

QuoteI *could* prance around with a palm frond covering my nether regions, but is it really necessary and appropriate? No.
We sincerely thank you for not indulging that fantasy delusion thought.
Judy LaValley, Maj, CAP
Asst. DCP, LAWG
SWR-LA-001
GRW #2753

Eagle400

Quote from: Fifinella on May 25, 2010, 03:40:55 AM
QuoteI *could* prance around with a palm frond covering my nether regions, but is it really necessary and appropriate? No.
We sincerely thank you for not indulging that fantasy delusion thought.

OMG, just shot milk out the nose! 

Can't believe I missed that one.  Holy Cow!

:P


davidsinn

Quote from: NIN on May 25, 2010, 01:34:49 AM
I *could* prance around with a palm frond covering my nether regions,

Excuse me while I find a sharp stick to poke out my mind's eye.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

Eagle400

Capt Sinn, that's brilliant!

:clap:

I'm keeping that one lol!!   

davidsinn

Quote from: CCSE on May 25, 2010, 10:56:35 PM
Capt Sinn, that's brilliant!

:clap:

I'm keeping that one lol!!   

I can't take credit for it. I ripped it off of someone a long time ago.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

raivo


CAP Member, 2000-20??
USAF Officer, 2009-2018
Recipient of a Mitchell Award Of Irrelevant Number

"No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection-ready unit has ever survived combat."