Assuming General Pineda was behind the movement to "re-brand" CAP to USCAP, do you think it will be dropped if he, for whatever reason, is no longer in office?  Somewhere, I read that the USAF was not in favor of using it or otherwise didn't think it could be used without changes to legal documents, etc.

I have seen more and more people using it for signature lines and such both on this forum and in official correspondence.  Do you think it is here to stay, or will it quietly go away?  Should it?

Frack'n polls. 

How come you don't like polls?

Frack!   

Quote from: mikeylikey on August 24, 2007, 01:55:59 AM
Frack!   

Frack'n Cylons....

Lots of stuff that has been unpopular in CAP has been attributed to the Major General, but frankly I think that the linking of ALL such things to him has been the result more of anti-Pindea agendism than fact.  Sort of a "let's focus all our agnst in one place."

The facts are that the position of National Commander is not one that allows edicts to carry the force of law, by virtue of that...anyone who is National Commander cannot simply effect CAP policy without the support of the governing bodies of CAP and its college of Cardinals...er...Region/Wing Commaders. (unless my understanding of the position is incorrect)

Thus, it is likely that many of these actions began as suggestions to him...turned into lip service by him...then backed by the Governing Bodies.

It is likely that "USCAP" is the brainchild of someone else "close to the top."  I never heard or read the Major General take credit for anything but the "TPU" CAP Distinctive Service Coat and those statements were with my own ears at the 2007 Texas Wing Conference.  When he introduced the "US Civil Air Patrol tapes" he attributed that to a recommendation from Vangaurd, placed it to a vote...then it passed with little commentary.

One curious question...if the the Major General is converted to Citizen Pineda, who will the "focus of angst" be then?  If they reveal some unpopular uniform or a change to the basic seal of the Civil Air Patrol...and Citizen Pineda is gone...will the powers that rant turn against Brig General Courter?

That is a serious question I am asking here. 

We now return you to your original program...   

Quote from: Major Carrales on August 24, 2007, 02:18:11 AM
...will the powers that rant turn against Brig General Courter?

I don't know if we will see anyone put forward the large amount of changes TP has brought.  The old saying "learn from others mistakes" would surely apply here.

However if there needs to be a focus for everyones anger.......who should it be??   

Quote from: Becks on August 24, 2007, 01:56:57 AM

Quote from: mikeylikey on August 24, 2007, 01:55:59 AM
Frack!   

Frack'n Cylons....

Frack'n right on!

Wasn't there already a poll on this exact issue a few months ago?

Quote from: RiverAux on August 24, 2007, 03:34:12 AM
Wasn't there already a poll on this exact issue a few months ago?

Use the search feature

Quote from: Major Carrales on August 24, 2007, 02:18:11 AM
The facts are that the position of National Commander is not one that allows edicts to carry the force of law, by virtue of that...anyone who is National Commander cannot simply effect CAP policy without the support of the governing bodies of CAP and its college of Cardinals...er...Region/Wing Commaders. (unless my understanding of the position is incorrect)

Thus, it is likely that many of these actions began as suggestions to him...turned into lip service by him...then backed by the Governing Bodies.

To paraphrase George Orwell, "All National Commanders are influential....but some are more influential than others".

My understanding is that many of these changes either originated with General Pineda, or else he bought into them personally when he received the suggestion.

You are correct that the CAP CC can't rule by edict....however, the CAP CC does influence the NB members.....and Gen. Pineda has a very powerful, rather direct personality. I think he exerted a lot of influence on NB members to back his ideas.

Gen. Courter appears to be more of a consensus builder, and somewhat more patient with divergent opinions.

If she succeeds to command (now or in the future), undoubtedly there will be those who complain about what she does, or her successor, and so forth....someone always complains!

However, I don't think she will be the 'lightning rod' for controversy and dissent that Gen. Pineda has been....again, largely because of their differing personalities.

Please understand that this is simply my analysis of the situation, and not in anyway a judgement of either person or their actions.

Quote from: Major Carrales on August 24, 2007, 02:18:11 AM
...
When he introduced the "US Civil Air Patrol tapes" he attributed that to a recommendation from Vangaurd, placed it to a vote...then it passed with little commentary.
...

umm, what?

To be fair, I think that was uncalled for.  But really?  To take uniform suggestions from the near only supplier?   Taking suggestions from members, ok, depending on the idea.  I'm beginning to wonder what is in the contract that NHQ signed with them.  If a contract was signed that guaranteed VG so much profit, but then they weren't making as much as they planned, so a suggestion to raise revenue by a new item- and outrageous shipping charges--I would be very unhappy.  The way I figure it, VG makes a pretty penny on shipping.  I have heard that they occasionally lose money on the item- Member pays $7 shipping when would have cost $8 normally- VG lost $1, now I buy 1 ribbon.  I pay $7 shipping, when would cost me $.39- VG makes $6.61.  For the two orders, VG would've earned $5.61.  I know that those are crude and extremes, but they would be making more money that way too.  Now, if they would only use the money to better their website. . . . . .

Quote from: JC004 on August 24, 2007, 04:09:29 AM

Quote from: Major Carrales on August 24, 2007, 02:18:11 AM
...
When he introduced the "US Civil Air Patrol tapes" he attributed that to a recommendation from Vangaurd, placed it to a vote...then it passed with little commentary.
...

umm, what?

I was watching the live stream...they had numerous other unifrom issues.  Then he, the Major General pulled the "US CIVIL AIR PATROL" nametape out and expressed that they were from Vanguard.  When he called for discussion, only on Region/Wing Commander made a comment...it was more an issue about if it would fit over the the pocket. 

The Major General then said that the one he was holding...uncut...would have to be cut to fit the pocket. 

A vote was called for with no objectionable discussion and then the motion carried.

That is what I remember seeing and hearing.

QuoteYou are correct that the CAP CC can't rule by edict....however, the CAP CC does influence the NB members.....and Gen. Pineda has a very powerful, rather direct personality. I think he exerted a lot of influence on NB members to back his ideas.

Actually, by sad example, the paradigm has been that if you don't support Tony you rapidly find yourself a former National Board Member.  Didn't you guys read Rex Glasgow's letter where he said that Tony would eavesdrop on Region Commanders conference calls to determine who supported him?  Why do you think his term was strewn with the bodies of his opponents?

Quote from: Skyray on August 24, 2007, 06:56:46 AM

  Why do you think his term was strewn with the bodies of his opponents?

... and broken/disbanded squadrons.  but that is another thread... i may type it out sometime.

We're already knee-deep in the nametapes: let's keep them, they don't look too bad.

Flightsuit nametages are another thing, hopefully those weren't in the plan (?)

In the grand scheme of things should this REALLY be that big of a deal? Seems like its time to get over it and accept it and move on to more important issues.

Doesn't really matter.

RE: The Generals involvement...

This is kinda like George Bush. His opponents blame everything on him as if he were some magical genie that could manipulate the world at his liesure.

Fact is, General Pineda is just a volunteer general with a made up rank, enjoying only the authority we and CAP/USAF grant him. He doesn't control the weather.