A while ago there began a push to try to "nationalize" CAP more than it has been so that we're all just "one CAP". This translated into getting rid of wing patches (almost) and was partially behind the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" nametape and "moniker". While these are the most obvious outward signs of this policy/initiative, there seem to have been more behind the scenes changes in which CAP Wings seem to be more willing to ask for and receive help from other Wings when it comes time to perform missions. There seems to still be a way to go on that issue, but we're getting better.
Now, while I still disagree with the wing patch/USCAP decisions, I think the issue they've tried to address is valid. For example, in many of the articles about the Fossett search you see constant references to the Nevada Civil Air Patrol or California Civil Air Patrol. While these are obviously media mistakes and I'm sure we didn't use that terminology in our press releases or press conferences, by our normal language I think it is not unexpected that those phrases are used.
The only way around that constant confusion that I see is to try to limit the use of Wing names in our press releases, especially those involving missions. If we just talk of the Civil Air Patrol being activated rather than the Nevada Wing of the Civil Air Patrol, it would reduce confusion in the media. What do you think?
RiverAux, I personally like the U.S. Civil Air Patrol tapes myself, but I'm with you on the Wing patches. Most AF units have unit patches to distinguish themselves from other units, and that is what I feel the purpose of the Wing patch was. Referring to ourselves as individual Wings should solely be used for Administrative purposes in my opinion. When there is a search such as the Fossett search, I don't care what Wing are involved. It's nice to know that CAP is involved. I agree that we should eliminate the use of Wing names in the press releases. I don't see a problem with identifying your unit name like "Capt. Average Joe from the Las Vegas Composite Squadron", or "Lt. Col. Jane Doe from the Sacramento Senior Squadron", would be a problem. We are a whole. We as members should also recognize this. I'm with you.
I like the fact that the wing patches went away from the blues. I really don't care one way or the other about the patches on the BDU, except that they should be consistent with the Air Force and not the Army Air Corps.
I don't like the USCAP nonsense, since that gives the appearance (maybe intentionally?) that CAP is a stand-alone force independent of the Air Force. After all, we never talk about the "U.S. Air Combat Command."
But I agree that the journalistic shorthand of "Nevada Civil Air Patrol" should be discouraged. The "Nevada Wing of the CAP," or "CAP's Nevada Wing" is accurate and preferable. Otherwise, it DOES give the impression that CAP is a state agency.
One way to fix it is to get rid of states as wings. It doesn't have to be Massachusetts Wing. It could be [Some Number] [Some Distinctive Type of Designator for CAP] Wing. I'd ditch geographic naming across the board for this reason.
Quote from: MIKE on September 15, 2007, 05:22:05 PM
One way to fix it is to get rid of states as wings. It doesn't have to be Massachusetts Wing. It could be [Some Number] [Some Distinctive Type of Designator for CAP] Wing. I'd ditch geographic naming across the board for this reason.
That's a good thought, Mike. The wings already have numbers. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to make Florida Wing, for example, the "8th CAP Wing."
Number then as they were admitted to the union or recognized/declared/whatever (D.C. and PR) - there would be 52 of them. I too, think the U.S., US, etc is just more TP ego stretch, that we could still call off as an organization, I wouldn't be surprised if similar stuff changes when the Investigation is over with what really needs to be the obvious outcome. Our unit ordered a bunch of stuff from that company that stifles competition, and no tapes came that said 'U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL', I'm thinking that when the first ones show up, everyones gonna need to get new name and organization tapes otherwise we're going to look weird, and changing just the organization will result in uneven fading. ... IE.. they all need changed, the cadets will nail you on stuff like that ;D
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on September 15, 2007, 07:14:26 PM
Quote from: MIKE on September 15, 2007, 05:22:05 PM
One way to fix it is to get rid of states as wings. It doesn't have to be Massachusetts Wing. It could be [Some Number] [Some Distinctive Type of Designator for CAP] Wing. I'd ditch geographic naming across the board for this reason.
That's a good thought, Mike. The wings already have numbers. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to make Florida Wing, for example, the "8th CAP Wing."
The numbering system would definately be a good way to identify each individual state if it came down to that point. Or we could just use the charter number like the "96th Composite Squadron of CAP". It's just something minute that was overlooked, but could always be taken care of.
Quote from: a2capt on September 15, 2007, 07:30:22 PM
Number then as they were admitted to the union or recognized/declared/whatever (D.C. and PR) - there would be 52 of them.
You don't even have to go that far...the numbering has already been done. Former cadets will remember when the first two digits of their unit charter number equated to their state - I was in 08142.
MAWG is/was 19. I think I saw something that said the numbers were based on all the states plus PR and DC listed alphabetically.
Switching to numbered Wings may help slightly, but as I am generally a bit of a traditionalist I'm not sure I would want to go that way.
As to squadrons, we couldn't realistically go to all numbered squadrons without renumbering everything. For example, there might be a charter number 96 squadron in multiple Wings so they all couldn't be the 96th Composite Squadron.
I wouldn't want to go to numbered Wings or especially squadrons without doing away with the cadet/composite/senior stuff at the same time. If the AF didn't already have a lock on Search and Rescue Squadron/Wing that is what we SHOULD be (yes, yes, I know that not every squadron does SAR, but it is as good a generalization as anything else).
-- The 8th Civil Air Patrol Wing (Florida)
-- The 289th Cadet Squadron (Ohio)
-- The 19th Civil Air Patrol Group (Florida)
-- The 96th Composite Squadron (Anystate)
-- The 69th Operations Squadron (Anystate)
"Senior" squadrons gets switched to "Operations" squadron to avoid the natural confusion that might result from people assuming that "Senior" may mean superior in rank or position. Or, worse, synonomous with "Historic."
Of course, the flip side to that would be that other (non-operations) squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)
We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices" :)
Quote from: floridacyclist on September 16, 2007, 01:13:22 PM
Of course, the flip side to that would be that squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)
We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices" :)
rofl ;)
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on September 16, 2007, 12:47:42 PM
-- The 8th Civil Air Patrol Wing (Florida)
-- The 289th Cadet Squadron (Ohio)
-- The 19th Civil Air Patrol Group (Florida)
-- The 96th Composite Squadron (Anystate)
-- The 69th Operations Squadron (Anystate)
"Senior" squadrons gets switched to "Operations" squadron to avoid the natural confusion that might result from people assuming that "Senior" may mean superior in rank or position. Or, worse, synonomous with "Historic."
Wow...I LIKE that! I do not mind being known as a "senior" member, but as someone who is only 38 and still new to CAP, I am actually not "senior" in anything! LOL
Quote from: floridacyclist on September 16, 2007, 01:13:22 PM
Of course, the flip side to that would be that other (non-operations) squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)
We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices" :)
OK. -- The 126th Cholesterol Consumption Squadron (LDL) (Florida)
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on September 16, 2007, 01:25:57 PM
Quote from: floridacyclist on September 16, 2007, 01:13:22 PM
Of course, the flip side to that would be that other (non-operations) squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)
We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices" :)
OK. -- The 126th Cholesterol Consumption Squadron (LDL) (Florida)
Approved.
What is it now, 138th Belt Busters Squadron?
I've heard cadets refer to the Dark Side in passing, "the only thing that you start gaining on is belt sizes", over there.. ;-)
However on topic, too, the fact that they say "California Wing - Civil Air Patrol" and "286th Operations Squadron - Civil Air Patrol", still means there's separate units to one organization.
It's just in the naming..
If you think you're going to 'make it easier' for the media, you have another thing coming. ;)
Quote from: floridacyclist on September 16, 2007, 01:13:22 PM
Of course, the flip side to that would be that other (non-operations) squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)
We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices" :)
Excuse me, I prefer Duncan myself. And they're finally coming to Vegas! If they didn't I'd have to move back to PA.
QuoteHowever on topic, too, the fact that they say "California Wing - Civil Air Patrol" and "286th Operations Squadron - Civil Air Patrol", still means there's separate units to one organization.
It's just in the naming..
If you think you're going to 'make it easier' for the media, you have another thing coming
Its not the separate units that are the issue, its the fact that using "Nevada Civil Air Patrol" makes it seem as if it is an entirely different organization from the "California Civil Air Patrol" in the way that the California and Nevada Highway Patrols are different organizations.
To make things even more confusing, we have CAP units in California that belong to Nevada Wing (aka "Nevada Civil Air Patrol") - such as the unit at Truckee, CA.
I like getting rid of SQD names. It sounds more military sounding to say "128th Operations SQD, 28th Wing, Third Region, USCAP" then it does to say "fighting Tom's Bangor Fire Department Cadet Squadron, Oklahoma Wing, Southnorthern Region, USCAP". (names and places made-up to protect the innocent)
I call dibs on the 666th Cadet Squadron. >:D
Quote from: flyerthom on September 16, 2007, 06:20:29 PM
Quote from: floridacyclist on September 16, 2007, 01:13:22 PM
Of course, the flip side to that would be that other (non-operations) squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)
We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices" :)
Excuse me, I prefer Duncan myself. And they're finally coming to Vegas! If they didn't I'd have to move back to PA.
"Dunkin" is a donut. "Duncan" is running for President. 25 years as a street cop, I know my donuts!
Quote from: a2capt on September 16, 2007, 06:18:03 PM
What is it now, 138th Belt Busters Squadron?
I've heard cadets refer to the Dark Side in passing, "the only thing that you start gaining on is belt sizes", over there.. ;-)
However on topic, too, the fact that they say "California Wing - Civil Air Patrol" and "286th Operations Squadron - Civil Air Patrol", still means there's separate units to one organization.
It's just in the naming..
If you think you're going to 'make it easier' for the media, you have another thing coming. ;)
Well... there ARE three separate types of squadrons in CAP.
Would you prefer -- The 96th Civil Air Patrol Squadron (Cadet) (Montana)
-- The 69th Civil Air Patrol Squadron (Composite) (West Virginia)
-- The 123rd Civil Air Patrol Squadron (Officers) (New York)?
Quote from: dbaran on September 16, 2007, 06:42:38 PM
To make things even more confusing, we have CAP units in California that belong to Nevada Wing (aka "Nevada Civil Air Patrol") - such as the unit at Truckee, CA.
It's not any different than National Capital Wing. IIRC there isn't a single unit within the border of DC.
Since most CAP units are not deployed as units, it seems strange to call them by numbered designations.
Now, if a CAP was organized as deployable units...where one Squadron would be a sort of "WHOLE CAP" entity with Ground and Air Resources and could be called up, that might alter the naming scheme.
As it stands, the CAP unit as it currently exists is more or less geared to 1) Location 2) managing the CAP Officers and Cadets in that Location and 3) exist as an entity, on its own, (sometimes greatly isolated) with no real descision making (much less policy) function that contributes members to a greater effort.
While the Corpus Christi Comp Squadron has "deployed en masse" (meaning as many of us that can go to a SARex actually go to one at the same time and make up a presence in a neighboring unit); the Corpus Christi Comp Squadron could not be "activated," for example, to deploy to a Hurricane effected area. Instead, the members would arrive and be disbursted into the ICS system.
Thus...I don't see how chaning the names to numerals would reflect any sort of change.
Quote from: Major Carrales on September 18, 2007, 04:52:29 AM
Since most CAP units are not deployed as units, it seems strange to call them by numbered designations.
Now, if a CAP was organized as deployable units...where one Squadron would be a sort of "WHOLE CAP" entity with Ground and Air Resources and could be called up, that might alter the naming scheme.
As it stands, the CAP unit as it currently exists is more or less geared to 1) Location 2) managing the CAP Officers and Cadets in that Location and 3) exist as an entity, on its own, (sometimes greatly isolated) with no real descision making (much less policy) function that contributes members to a greater effort.
While the Corpus Christi Comp Squadron has "deployed en masse" (meaning as many of us that can go to a SARex actually go to one at the same time and make up a presence in a neighboring unit); the Corpus Christi Comp Squadron could not be "activated," for example, to deploy to a Hurricane effected area. Instead, the members would arrive and be disbursted into the ICS system.
Thus...I don't see how chaning the names to numerals would reflect any sort of change.
You are right. Actually CAP squadrons act more like "Training Centers" in the Naval Reserve do. They are home-based entities that people deploy from as individuals.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on September 18, 2007, 04:56:47 AM
You are right. Actually CAP squadrons act more like "Training Centers" in the Naval Reserve do. They are home-based entities that people deploy from as individuals.
Excellent, Kach! I yield to your concise verbage.
A. KK donuts suck. Really. I wouldn't eat them with King Kong's mouth.
B. Numbered unit designations make my head hurt. Some folks do fine with the numbers - Sq 57, Sq 10, Sq 144, etc. I don't. It's much easier for me to work with squadron names - San Diego Senior Sq, Jon E. Kramer Composite Squadron, San Diego Cadet Squadron, etc. Even if the name isn't geographical, I can still remember it better that way, than with just a number.
YMMV.
Actually, the discussion began when we were trying to collectively discover a way to keep CAP from being viewed by the Great Unwashed and Uninformed Multitudes (GUUM) as state organizations, i.e., the "Missiouri Civil Air Patrol." One of the solutions was to number the wings rather than name them.
That extended to the groups and the squadrons.
But Sparky is right, our squadrons do not deploy as units. The first thing we cast aside in a mission is unit integrity. Every mission is commenced by formation of a mission task force under an incident commander. I really do not take a position on naming vs. numbering squadrons.
In fact, I don't think they should be called "Squadrons" since they do not deploy as units.
Why not call them "Stations?"
"Civil Air Patrol Station West Podunk"
"The Pancho Barnes Memorial Civil Air Patrol Station"
A "Group" could still exercise command over a number of CAP stations, and a "Wing" which could then be numbered or named, would exercise C&C over the Groups.
Or... "Training Centers?"
"The North Elbowbend Civil Air Patrol Training Center"
"The Wrongway Corrigan Memorial Civil Air Patrol Training Center"
QuoteSince most CAP units are not deployed as units, it seems strange to call them by numbered designations.
Though not unusual at all in the military either. Quite common for training or "administrative" units to have numeric designations even though they're not intended for actual operational use.
As I think I said earlier, this is really more of a problem in how CAP public affairs officers phrase things in their press releases and interviews than a real "structural" problem within CAP.
Hummm...?
How easy would it be to say...
CAP STATION KINGSVILLE, Texas Wing, USCAP?
CAP STATION BROWNSVILLE, Texas Wing, USCAP?
CAP STATION CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas Wing USCAP?
These sound a bit like names of CAP FACILITIES, unit's that gather there would/should have a geographic/function name; Corpus Christi COMP SQUADRON, Kingsville CADET SQUADRON etc. Units that share facilities and pitch in to maintain said facilities.
Save the fancy names for Flights and Aircrews, Brahma Cadet Flight, Alpha Aircrew etc; if you wanted them at all. I might be a nice way to honor some CAP hero... to name a flight after them.
If this, however, a problem? Do we have problems being once CAP based on unit names?
Again, the fact is we do not deploy as units and, aside from squadron pactches, we blend into the ICS system at an Exercise or REDCAP.
Hummm...?
How easy would it be to say...
CAP STATION KINGSVILLE, Texas Wing, USCAP?
CAP STATION BROWNSVILLE, Texas Wing, USCAP?
CAP STATION CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas Wing USCAP?
These sound a bit like names of CAP FACILITIES, unit's that gather there would/should have a geographic/function name; Corpus Christi COMP SQUADRON, Kingsville CADET SQUADRON etc. Units that share facilities and pitch in to maintain said facilities.
Save the fancy names for Flights and Aircrews, Brahma Cadet Flight, Smilin' Kach Senior Flight, Alpha Aircrew etc; if you wanted them at all. It might be a nice way to honor some CAP hero... to name a flight after them. Squadrons would deal with that, if at all.
Is this, however, a real issue/problem? Do we have problems being once CAP based on unit names?
Again, the fact is we do not deploy as units and, aside from squadron pactches, we blend into the ICS system at an Exercise or REDCAP.
Non-specific numbering is best because it is more or less standardized. The 666th Cadet Squadron is still that regardless of what town/city it's in or where it moves within the wing. If the unit wants to re-designate to a Composite or Senior Squadron, they could in theory just deactivate and reactivate as one of the appropriate units that wing has in its pool of deactivated units... with appropriate heraldry etc attached to it. So wing would have a pool of charters for each type of unit to issue/reissue as appropriate.
Instead of having the East Podunk Cdt Sq have to change all their stuff when they move to Mooselick and become a "Memorial" Composite Sq.
As I see it your main complaint is keepping the press from assuming that we have separate CAPs.
I've seen a lot of suggestions but I sum it up this way.
After 29 years in Law Enforcement, I have NEVER seen the press get anything right so no matter what you would change the name to, they'd get it wrong.
The old Wing numbers are not sequencial. They are the Region number plus the Wing number, thus the "52" on the Indiana Wing patch means Region 5 (GLR) wing 2, not that it was the last wing.
Bob
Quote from: rdmcii on September 18, 2007, 11:47:53 PM
The old Wing numbers are not sequencial. They are the Region number plus the Wing number, thus the "52" on the Indiana Wing patch means Region 5 (GLR) wing 2, not that it was the last wing.
Bob
And Ohio's "51" had nothing to do with "Area 51" except that the bodies of the dead aliens from the Roswell crash were stored at Wright-Patterson for a while.
Quote from: rdmcii on September 18, 2007, 11:47:53 PM
The old Wing numbers are not sequential. They are the Region number plus the Wing number, thus the "52" on the Indiana Wing patch means Region 5 (GLR) wing 2, not that it was the last wing.
Bob
I don't think that is correct. I remember reading that the wing numbers were the old designators from the Army. As in Third Corps, First Army (31). Didn't we have a link on CAPTALK in one thread that lead to a site with the point paper on the subject??
The original Regions paralleled the Continental Army Groups All of the states in 5th Army Group became the 5th Region, and the wings were numbered sequentially within the Region. Michigan and Wisconsin were in the 6th Army Group, and they became 63 and 62, even though there were only 52 total wings.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on September 16, 2007, 07:59:08 PM
Quote from: flyerthom on September 16, 2007, 06:20:29 PM
Quote from: floridacyclist on September 16, 2007, 01:13:22 PM
Of course, the flip side to that would be that other (non-operations) squadrons are assumed to not do operations (ie ES and other flying)
We'll just be honest and call Senior-only squadrons what they are: Krispy Kreme Corporate HQ Field Offices" :)
Excuse me, I prefer Duncan myself. And they're finally coming to Vegas! If they didn't I'd have to move back to PA.
"Dunkin" is a donut. "Duncan" is running for President. 25 years as a street cop, I know my donuts!
There can be only one ...
See what happens when your cholesterol gets dangerously close to normal!
Quote from: rdmcii on September 18, 2007, 11:47:53 PM
The old Wing numbers are not sequencial. They are the Region number plus the Wing number, thus the "52" on the Indiana Wing patch means Region 5 (GLR) wing 2, not that it was the last wing.
Bob
We are on system #3 for wing and unit designations. The first was with region and wing numbers as above.
The second was with wing and charter numbers, e.g. 17034, 29059, 29096, based on an alphabetical list of wing names. DCWG is listed as National Capitol, and AK, HI, and PR fill out 50, 51, and 52.
The third is the current system with the wings designated by their postal abbreviations.
And this CAP News Online press release shows one aspect of the problem:
QuoteMaj. John Neil
Incident Commander
Department of Emergency Services
Alabama Wing
ALABAMA -- Alabama Wing members located a downed Piper Saratoga late Sept. 14 in a remote area near the Alabama-Mississippi boarder about 6 1/2 hours after the craft disappeared off radar in severe weather.
The Air Force Rescue Coordination Center contacted the Alabama Wing about 8:30 p.m. to help look for the plane, which had last been seen on radar near York, Ala., during a thunderstorm some four hours earlier.
Severe weather in western Alabama and eastern Mississippi prevented aerial searches. So the incident commander, Maj. John Neil of the Alabama Wing, dispatched ground teams from the 117th Air National Guard Composite and Autauga-Elmore Composite squadrons and an urban direction finding team from the Tuscaloosa Composite Squadron to the scene.
The ground teams arrived about 11 p.m. in York, where local police had found parts of the plane near the road. The searchers were directed 10 miles into a remote area of swampy forest dense with vegetation, where a state police helicopter had picked up a very weak emergency locator transmitter signal. The aircraft may have broken up in flight, as wreckage was found in multiple locations, miles apart.
Upon arriving in the area, the ground teams went to work. Within 30 minutes of using its direction-finding equipment, the 117th Air National Guard Composite team found the main fuselage. The ground teams led members of the sheriff's department and emergency medical personnel to the main crash site, where the pilot's body was recovered.
In all, 24 Alabama Wing members were involved in the search as ground or urban direction finding team members or mission staff.
Sumter County Sheriff's Department and Alabama State Police officials said that without the Alabama Wing's assistance, finding the main wreckage and the pilot's body could have taken several days.
Now, just what is a reporter, even a competent one, supposed to think when he see "117th Air National Guard Composite Squadron" in a CAP press release? They're going to assume that we're part of the Air National Guard, which doesn't at all help the "One CAP" policy.
What did I say the other day? Have you ever know the press to get it right?
Your Honor, I rest my case.
Yes, they always manage to get something wrong in every story I've been involved in, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can to avoid it.
Quote from: RiverAux on September 20, 2007, 10:51:24 PMNow, just what is a reporter, even a competent one, supposed to think when he see "117th Air National Guard Composite Squadron" in a CAP press release? They're going to assume that we're part of the Air National Guard, which doesn't at all help the "One CAP" policy.
This is one reason why I believe that
Unit Charter Numbers should be used to number squadrons.
For example:
SER-AL-090 = 90th Birmingham Composite Squadron
SER-AL-087 = 87th Bessemer Composite Squadron
SER-AL-032 = 32nd Maxwell AFB Composite Squadron
From what I understand, Colorado Wing already does this. Now, if CAP can standardize this procedure and have all CAP squadrons numbered according to Unit Charter Number, that will help get rid of the confusion.
Nope, Colorado uses standard place names. Arkansas and Maine appear to be the only states that use "56th Composite Squadron" type names across the board.
Quote from: RiverAux on September 20, 2007, 11:22:23 PM
Nope, Colorado uses standard place names. Arkansas and Maine appear to be the only states that use "56th Composite Squadron" type names across the board.
I stand corrected.
Quote from: RiverAux on September 20, 2007, 11:22:23 PM
Arkansas and Maine appear to be the only states that use "56th Composite Squadron" type names across the board.
You see, I don't think that's right. The way squadrons are named should be standardized across the entire organization.
I also believe that all CAP wings should be numbered and not named according to state. Some wing emblems have their number already printed on them.
What can I say but that NHQ isn't very consistent in approving name changes for squadrons.
Quote from: RiverAux on September 20, 2007, 11:22:23 PM
and Maine appear to be the only states that use "56th Composite Squadron" type names across the board.
I'm pretty sure that even though the squadron is chartered as "56th Composite Squadron" they call themselves different names.
For example:
75th Composite Squadron is: Machias Valley Composite Squadron
38th Composite Squadron is: Downeast Composite Squadron
Here is something many fail to realize. When one replaces a UNIT name like... "The Corpus Christi Composite Squadron"... to something like "The 26th Composite Squadron..." you have taken a name with geographic and local significance and replaced it with what is to the public an "arbitrary" numeral.
If you call it "The 26th Texas Composite Squadron," how would that eliminate the problem of people thinking CAP is a State/Commonwealth organization?
This goes against the paradigms that were discussed at the PAO academy that called for more local connections and relationships to community.
Just a thought...
Quote from: Major Carrales on September 21, 2007, 03:57:28 PM
If you call it "The 26th Texas Composite Squadron," how would that eliminate the problem of people thing CAP is a State/Commonwealth organization?
Besides, I can just see a bunch of gung-ho cadets waving Lone Star State flags and yelling, "Come on, 26th Texas!" as they burst into the woods on a mission. Hoo boy. :D
Jack
I completely agree. Removing any reference to your local community with your squadron name is IMO tacky.
CAP is a community based program and our squadron names should reflect such. People get a better sense of the area you serve with a local reference as opposed to a numeral. They can also build a better connection/relationship with the name because that's where they are from.
When you state squadron titles, you'd say "The Corpus Christi Composite Squadron of the Civil Air Patrol," or, "The Corpus Christi Composite Squadron of the Texas Wing of the Civil Air Patrol" which helps people identify, using common sense, where your from.
I like the name associations, leave them alone. ;)
And the result in the paper is likely to be the "Corpus Christi Composite Texas Patrol Squadron...."
Quote from: RiverAux on September 21, 2007, 05:43:57 PM
And the result in the paper is likely to be the "Corpus Christi Composite Texas Patrol Squadron...."
Now, Now...one would think you meant to say our media brethren are less than intelligent. :P
No, actually I'm not. They're good folks who in my experience try their best to get things right, but have a whole lot of facts that they have to deal with and they're bound to get some of them wrong.
But, we can't expect them to understand the somewhat complicated CAP organizational structure as well as they should. Since the Iraq war has started I've seen that they've greatly improved their ability to name military units properly since they're using that information so often. But, with CAP is a different ballgame.
Bunch of Libs
Quote from: RiverAux on September 21, 2007, 07:55:47 PM
No, actually I'm not. They're good folks who in my experience try their best to get things right, but have a whole lot of facts that they have to deal with and they're bound to get some of them wrong.
I was hoping you would say that. I operate a weekly newsletter for our unit, occasionally information overwhelms me and my staff. Sometimes Major are called Capt and the like...but we produce quite a lot of articles. Sometimes typos happen.
However, I have seen consistant problems with the naming of CAP units.
I keep it simple in press releases...
"The Corpus Christi Composite Squadron of the Civil Air Patrol"
CAP Units are a strange mix...its a National Organization that has its strength in local relationship with the majority of CAP Officers and Cadets so far removed from National and Region, sometimes WING, it seems like each unit is more a local "service organization."
Since CAP is not a household name, yet, it is looked at as a LOCAL organization. Thus, unit geographical names are better. Number systems and the like will only make CAP more impersonal. One must make it clear...totally clear that it is the local functionary of a GREATER WHOLE!
Quote from: Major Carrales on September 21, 2007, 08:17:32 PM
One mush make it clear...
One mush?
No more for Sparky, guys ... he's had it. He's tanked. Who's the designated driver tonight, anyway?
;D
Jack
Quote from: ColonelJack on September 21, 2007, 08:22:44 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on September 21, 2007, 08:17:32 PM
One mush make it clear...
One mush?
No more for Sparky, guys ... he's had it. He's tanked. Who's the designated driver tonight, anyway?
;D
Jack
Too much "virtual rum" too early in the day! ;)
The thing we've got to think about, and we're generally talking about mission-related public affairs, is that in most missions it is very likely that anytime CAP is mentioned it will probably be right next to mentions of other agencies participating in the search.
Think about how you've seen the National Guard or State Police mentioned in these sorts of articles....you almost never see a mention of which NG unit or State Police troop is participating in the search.
So, we're much better off if we focus on getting the "Civil Air Patrol" mentioned, rather than trying to get the media to say "The Corpus Christi Squadron of the Texas Wing of the Civil Air Patrol". They're just not going to print that whole string most of the time. So, eliminate the squadron and wing mentions and most likely you will get "Civil Air Patrol" in the newspaper, but if you focus on the others you most likely will end up with "The State Police, Nationa Guard, and the Corpus Christi Wing participated in the search today...."
It makes no never mind to me how we are refered to by the media. If someone's interest is piqued by a report on TV, and they want to learn more to join or for whatever reason, they can simply Google "Nevada Civil Air Patrol" or whatever else they heard and it will still lead them to where they need to be lead to, Civil Air Patrol. I fail to see why all the fuss.
Hoser
Quote from: RiverAux on September 21, 2007, 09:12:29 PM
So, we're much better off if we focus on getting the "Civil Air Patrol" mentioned, rather than trying to get the media to say "The Corpus Christi Squadron of the Texas Wing of the Civil Air Patrol". They're just not going to print that whole string most of the time. So, eliminate the squadron and wing mentions and most likely you will get "Civil Air Patrol" in the newspaper, but if you focus on the others you most likely will end up with "The State Police, Nationa Guard, and the Corpus Christi Wing participated in the search today...."
Here is a subject for a new thread. The difference between PAO(Public Affairs Officer and MIO (Mission Information Officer).
The Public Affairs Officer is a reporter of UNIT activities to the CAP Officers and Cadets (internal program) and the Local Media (external program). Thus, semi-regular reports to local (sometimes rural newspapers) on what's going on in the unit. I would refer to the unit as "The Corpus Christi Composite Squadron of the Civil Air Patrol" in a lead line that would look something like this...
"Five Civil Air Patrol Officers and Cadets of the Corpus Christi Composite Squadron deployed to Brownsville, Texas on Saturday 15 September 2007 for an Area Wide Search and Rescue Exercise" (notice the
WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN and WHY)
A Mission Information Officer is an instrument of the ICS system focused on the Mission. Since we so not deploy as "units"
per se to REDCAPs and the ICS system makes it own Unity of Command via effective Span of Control, I might phrase the Press Release like this...
"Seventy Five Civil Air Patrol Officers and Cadets are currently deployed in search efforts near Premont, Texas in support of the continuing efforts to locate Mr. I. M. Lostagan who dissapeared from a local nursing home. The Civil Air Patrol has deployed three aircraft and six ground vehicles in support of the effort."
The MIO should speak about CAP as CAP...maybe elaborate on where the people are from at the "bottom of the inverted pyramid."
Comments...