Safety Down Day Issue

[EMT-83]

The unit is supposed to have a "Safety Day" (they don't use the word 'down') in the first quarter of the year. however calling someone clueless for using it seems rather strong.

No, I don't think clueless is too strong. Sorry, but the safety officer should know 62-1 in his sleep. The squadron commander less so.

Here's another question.  Let's say that I take some of the posts here and the regulation, cite all to my CO, and his response is something like, "Well, that's NHQ's regulation.  This is XX Wing's."  Would national supersede here?

Pretty much what I'm trying to do is be able to go to my CO with as much ammo as I can get, and then if that doesn't work, I'll jump over him.

Wing cannot modify a regulation without a supplement which has been approved by Region and published.

[lordmonar]

Here's another question.  Let's say that I take some of the posts here and the regulation, cite all to my CO, and his response is something like, "Well, that's NHQ's regulation.  This is XX Wing's."  Would national supersede here?

Pretty much what I'm trying to do is be able to go to my CO with as much ammo as I can get, and then if that doesn't work, I'll jump over him.

Listen....I don't know you, your commander or anything.

This is basic conflict resolution.

You are thinking you are being treated wrong (I do to).
Go to your commander tell him you think you are being treated wrong...don't badger him with regs....it is not the point.
If he still makes you do it.  Politely refuse and then call your group or wing commander.
If he does not make you do it and but starts to retaliate go you to you group/wing commander.

That's what the chain of command is for.

[abdsp51]

Everything I have seen has said it's the commanders responsibility to have a safety program, and it is something that can not be passed off to someone else.  This alternate assignment is ludicrous for a SM and more so for a cadet. 

[Maverick925]

Here is the exact e-mail with the assignment.  I have sanitized it for obvious reasons.  If you recognize it, please do not mention ANYTHING about unit name, wing, etc. as I do not know if my CO is on here:

Safety Day 2012 Make-up Assignment

For those Senior Members and Cadets that were not in attendance for the required CAP Safety Down Day and ORM review – the make-up requirement is to research and deliver a 3500+ Word, or handwritten (legibly) document covering the topics listed below. For purposes of Safety Currency for participation in Squadron meetings and functions, you will not be listed as Current until this requirement is completed and has been reviewed and accepted by the Squadron Safety Officer and the Squadron Commander.

•   CAPF – 26 –What is it and how is it used? Show an example of a safety condition that should be reported on the form. Outline the process for handling identified safety issues, including Chain of Command

•   CAPF – 60 – it's importance for each mission. Why is it important to list out medical information and pre-existing medical conditions? List at least 3 medical conditions and their impact to a member or a mission.

•   ORM – define ORM, list the 6 steps in the process and give examples of how ORM is used in CAP planning and meetings. List examples of hoe everyone uses ORM in daily life. Discuss the ORM matrix and how it helps define risk and its mitigation.

•   Dehydration – define dehydration and list some causes. Show knowledge of the stages of dehydration and electrolyte loss and proper ways to correct an imbalance of electrolytes.

•   Hydration – show examples of how someone can remain hydrated, proper preparation for exercise or other activities. Show examples of suitable beverages for hydration, and examples of unsuitable beverages. What adverse effects do cola, caffeinated, and alcoholic beverages present. List some of the health or metabolic effects that caffeine have on the human body.

•   Aircraft and vehicle tire maintenance and safety. Show examples of why aircraft tires are specialized in purpose and some of the maintenance that needs to be done regularly. Show 2 examples of tire malfunction or maintenance issues attributed to fatal aircraft accidents. Outline proper vehicle tire maintenance – how to determine proper inflation pressure, how to check tire pressure and how often it should be checked. Show exapmles of how under and over inflated tires can contribute to vehicle handling, tire wear and other control issues.

[a2capt]

you will not be listed as Current (until this requirement is completed and has been reviewed and accepted by the Squadron Safety Officer and the Squadron Commander.)

Sure you will. Go online and take one of those six courses. You'll show up as Safety Current. Holding that against you is horse pucky. Its March right now, go an do it right now. You mean to tell me they have time for this, who the hell wants to read and review 3,500 words from a bunch of people? Someone has way too much time on their hands.

[Spaceman3750]

Again, make sure it's not a typo. No reason to go half-cocked because someone punched an extra 0.

[Maverick925]

Again, make sure it's not a typo. No reason to go half-cocked because someone punched an extra 0.

It's no typo.  I asked.  I even said in one of my e-mails back to him that "I think 3,500+ words is a bit much."  And he said that was his call to penalize anyone who didn't attend the meeting.

[Spaceman3750]

Again, make sure it's not a typo. No reason to go half-cocked because someone punched an extra 0.

It's no typo.  I asked.  I even said in one of my e-mails back to him that "I think 3,500+ words is a bit much."  And he said that was his call to penalize anyone who didn't attend the meeting.

In that case, follow any combination of the posts above...

[a2capt]

Hmmmm.. if the word "penalize" is being used, you're already past butting heads, and it's more someone strutting stuff and being stubborn.

Offer the solution of a recording being watched. If they have anything to whine about that over, why? You watched the material they prepared, you sat there and did nothing for the same amount of time, it's easier for "them" to prepare that somehow than it is to read several people's 3,500 words and decide if it satisfies them.

Hell, I'd already have jumped heads by now and been on the next commanders desk, if not the one past them by now. Thankfully, I don't have to deal with control freaks and power corrupted individuals as such. We all realize people have lives and responsibilities that are greater than Tuesday nights, and giving what they can to further the program is a greater contribution. So why run them off with BS Power Trips.

Power Corrupts. Absolute Power .. Corrupts Absolutely.

[RiverAux]

Dude, your anonymity is probably blown anyway should anyone involved actually read CAPTalk given the level of detail you've provided.  The info itself is probably enough for the squadron to be identified by those in the know.  So, don't worry about that.  Best thing you could do is stop talking about it here and take the advice given on addressing it directly up the chain of command. 

And do it all by email if at all possible -- never hurts to have some evidence of exactly what was said.

[a2capt]

^^ Already. But. Yeah, and with a "paper" trail. (even virtual paper).

[Al Sayre]

Try this:  A picture is worth a thousand words, 4 pictures of people doing something stupid ought to cover it.

seriously, I'd advise taking this up the chain...

[Extremepredjudice]

Or copy and paste from wikipedia. Or get something from google.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I agree, take it up the chain, but to your IG. This is the type of complaint that can likely be resolved without a full blown investigation.

Should that not be the case you have made a "protected communication" (see CAPR 123-2) and retaliating for that is not allowed.

[Eclipse]

There's no complaint here, not at least until the unit CC bars access to activities based on this directive.

This is one of those situations that gets blown up quickly for no reason, and then when people handle it wrong, their actions wind up causing more issues then the original problem.

CC's have bosses like everyone else.  This one is likely well intentioned but either misinformed or just following a path to make a point, which is going to ultimately backfire on everyone.  Punishment, especially where it does not fit the infraction, is not leadership, and in this case, there's no infraction.

Direct, professional contact to address the specific issue, and if you go up, CC him on the correspondence. He's just a volunteer like the rest of us, unevenly trained and trying to do the best he can.

If it gets to the point where a complaint is filed, everyone failed.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Let me clarify. If this can not be resolved with the unit CC, I suggest an IG complaint. (That might be to an assistant IG for a group, I do not know exactly how that works as RI has no groups).

We might have to agree to disagree on the "is there a complaint here". One of the options for his IG chain would be to dismiss and inform him as to why.

An other IG option is to "ASSIST the complainant in resolving the issue at the lowest level" (CAPR 123-2). A lot of leeway here to fix the problem without dumping it on the the group / wing CC's desk. But as I mentioned below it gives the member the whistle blower protections in the complaint regulation should the situation go sideways.

One of the IG's jobs is to run the compliant system for the commander. The "assist" in this case would be in the IG files and might only be mentioned in passing to the CC. This kind of data in the IG files might later show where policies need to be clarified or re-written.

[lordmonar]

Again, make sure it's not a typo. No reason to go half-cocked because someone punched an extra 0.

Even if it had an extra zero...it is a stupid assignment.

[Extremepredjudice]

Again, make sure it's not a typo. No reason to go half-cocked because someone punched an extra 0.

Even if it had an extra zero...it is a stupid assignment.

He said he did.

[Maverick925]

Let me clarify. If this can not be resolved with the unit CC, I suggest an IG complaint. (That might be to an assistant IG for a group, I do not know exactly how that works as RI has no groups).

We might have to agree to disagree on the "is there a complaint here". One of the options for his IG chain would be to dismiss and inform him as to why.

An other IG option is to "ASSIST the complainant in resolving the issue at the lowest level" (CAPR 123-2). A lot of leeway here to fix the problem without dumping it on the the group / wing CC's desk. But as I mentioned below it gives the member the whistle blower protections in the complaint regulation should the situation go sideways.

One of the IG's jobs is to run the compliant system for the commander. The "assist" in this case would be in the IG files and might only be mentioned in passing to the CC. This kind of data in the IG files might later show where policies need to be clarified or re-written.

How would I find out who my wing's IG is?

[Eclipse]

It should be posted on the wing's website, or if you call either the wing CC or the wing admin, they would know.

There are org charts available on eServices in reports, but you might not be able to access those.