Re-screening CAP members

[RiverAux]

Good enough for me.

Of course, if the AF thought it important enough for their purposes, they could take over that part of the program and do as much as an investigation as they wanted. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

It is NOT unusual to see a felony arrest record with no conviction.  In some cases the person was found not guilty, and in other cases the charge was reduced to a misdemeanor.

Some of those cases might have impact on CAP.  I arrested a guy once with several bags of "Uppers" selling them at a rock concert.  (In a previous life, I was a vice detective, but I didn't like it.)  I charged him with possession for sale, but when the lab report came back, the pills all contained "Caffeine--not a controled substance."  He was ripping off the dopers at the concert.  We amended the charge to "Possession of Counterfeit Controlled Substances" he pled to the misdemeanor, and we all went on with our lives.

But I don't think he should be in CAP.

[Major Lord]

FYI, a good, basic employment pre-screening costs about 100.00. This includes contact with all the applicants schools, stated employers, and courts in jurisdictions that the applicants Social Security records show residence for, plus public records, bankruptcies, liens and judgements, and a credit persona report. It would not be terribly feasible to run a background check that costs more than your membership fees.

I doubt that CAP has access to running DOJ backgrounds. My guess-underline guess- is that they use the lowest cost contractor they can find that will perform a "data dump" background check. These can be run for about 8.00 dollars at the wholesale level. Public records show only convictions, not arrests.

Major Lord

(CA Private Investigator)

[Flying Pig]

By CaptLord
Using the NCIC system to run backgrounds on members would make the person running the background a felon..

Actually its only a misdemeanor.....so hey, whats a few misdemeanors among friends and a little informal probation for the good of the organization!

[Major Lord]

You are probably right that a LE officer running an NCIC for a "bad" reason ( like running Angie Dickinson) would be a misdemeanor in CA. In my hypothetical, I assumed that a) CAP would use a contractor to do the backgrounds who would charge money for this service, b) that the contractor would provide NCIC information knowing and willfully. This would violate 18 USC, 1030 (Computer Fraud and Abuse Act) and 17 USC (Fair credit reporting act) and various Federal and State criminal conspiracy statutes. I could be wrong, but I think that is what they charged those cops selling NCIC's to Anthony Pellicano, the LA PI, with. There is a DEA agent who is a federal fugitive over just such issues.

Major Lord

[Skyray]

By CaptLord
Using the NCIC system to run backgrounds on members would make the person running the background a felon..

Actually its only a misdemeanor.....so hey, whats a few misdemeanors among friends and a little informal probation for the good of the organization!

Unfortunately, even though I am sure Steht was joking, this attitude of "I am above the law" is much too prevalent among Law Enforcement Officers.  Years ago I was a member of a Kiwanis Club who had a local Police Officer run NCIC checks on prospective members.  When I protested that it was illegal, I was told to "loosen up."  Somebody in Pineda's office ran my NCIC in 1996 at the height of our disagreement over his actions in Florida Wing.  How do I know this? Well, for one thing, one of his staff members disclosed the contents to another CAP member from a different group.  As someone said earlier, 99% of police officers are good law abiding citizens; but the one percent does a lot of damage.

[Major Lord]

I think Lt Steht was only correcting me on a point of California Law, not advocating violating our civil rights ( that would be bad, right?) One sure way to get fired these days is to run an NCIC or DMV for a friend, club, etc. and god help you if you do it for profit! If someone ran an NCIC on you in Florida, you could ask the FL DOJ to conduct an audit...in fact, it would not be a terrible idea to request an audit including any running of CAP members names who have been "purged"....Hmmmm.....


Major Lord

[dougsnow]

He was ripping off the dopers at the concert. 

There's a problem with that?

If you're a dopehead, sucks to be you

[Skyray]

The rules are different over here in Florida.  The proper agency is Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) and not only do they not care, but they adhere strictly to the Blue Code.  I better shut up before Delaney accuses me of having Tourettes again.

[jb512]

By CaptLord
Using the NCIC system to run backgrounds on members would make the person running the background a felon..

Actually its only a misdemeanor.....so hey, whats a few misdemeanors among friends and a little informal probation for the good of the organization!

Unfortunately, even though I am sure Steht was joking, this attitude of "I am above the law" is much too prevalent among Law Enforcement Officers.

You have some form of cite to back that up or is that just your personal opinion?

Years ago I was a member of a Kiwanis Club who had a local Police Officer run NCIC checks on prospective members.  When I protested that it was illegal, I was told to "loosen up."  Somebody in Pineda's office ran my NCIC in 1996 at the height of our disagreement over his actions in Florida Wing.  How do I know this? Well, for one thing, one of his staff members disclosed the contents to another CAP member from a different group.  As someone said earlier, 99% of police officers are good law abiding citizens; but the one percent does a lot of damage.

Ahh, well that sounds a little closer to being accurate.  I wouldn't classify roughly 1% as "much too prevalent".

[Skyray]

Ahh, well that sounds a little closer to being accurate.  I wouldn't classify roughly 1% as "much too prevalent".

Express that opinion at 2 AM when you meet that one percent on a deserted road and he is determined to bash in your head because he has adjudicated you slime.

Have you noticed the rise in incidence of proved police brutality since the video camera became ubiquitous?  These things happened before, the poor victim just didn't have proof.

[Eclipse]

Have you noticed the rise in incidence of proved police brutality since the video camera became ubiquitous? 

No.

[jb512]

Ahh, well that sounds a little closer to being accurate.  I wouldn't classify roughly 1% as "much too prevalent".

Express that opinion at 2 AM when you meet that one percent on a deserted road and he is determined to bash in your head because he has adjudicated you slime.

Had some bad experiences, or are you just playing make-believe?  Don't mistake a legal, and deserved a$$-kicking for police brutality.  Sometimes cops have to put their hands on people.

Have you noticed the rise in incidence of proved police brutality since the video camera became ubiquitous?  These things happened before, the poor victim just didn't have proof.

No I have not.  What I have seen a rise in is convictions, proof of verbal and physical assaults on police, murders of police officers, fewer sustained internal affairs complaints, and a rise in filing charges against complainants who falsely accuse officers of wrongdoing. 

I'm not quite sure if you're misinformed or somehow biased, but your information is incorrect.

[davedove]

Have you noticed the rise in incidence of proved police brutality since the video camera became ubiquitous?  These things happened before, the poor victim just didn't have proof.

No I have not.  What I have seen a rise in is convictions, proof of verbal and physical assaults on police, murders of police officers, fewer sustained internal affairs complaints, and a rise in filing charges against complainants who falsely accuse officers of wrongdoing. 

Exactly, that's one reason the police have the cameras in the cars now.  For some reason, folks are more inclined to believe the criminals (alleged) than they are the officers, so the police needed another source of evidence.

Sure, there are a few bad officers out there, but more often the cameras show just what cretins the officers deal with on a daily basis.

[Skyray]

Had some bad experiences, or are you just playing make-believe?  Don't mistake a legal, and deserved a$$-kicking for police brutality.  Sometimes cops have to put their hands on people.

Had one bad experience when I was driving too slowly through a bad neighborhood and was stopped by a cop who thought I was driving slowly because I was drunk, was pissed when he found out I wasn't, and was about to bash me with his baton when his supervisor drove up.  I had the pleasure of seeing him fired for dealing cocaine on duty about three weeks later.  And yes, there were racial overtones to the encounter.

[floridacyclist]

Don't tase me bro!

Sounds like a well-behaved college kid begging the cops to take it easy on him after someone thought he asked too many questions...even the headline stated "College student tased for refusing to stop asking questions at political rally".

What they didn't show was the kid pushing to the front of the line and taking the mic away from the person who was on it...and then resisting hte cops as they tried to drag him off the stage. I'm quite sure that the IA investigation will show that it was a justified tasing....but the press has already had their say on it and to many, this will just be another incident of police brutality.

Of course, the day after that, they did post a video clip of a cop taunting a college kid and calling him little boy while daring him to give him an excuse to teach him about humility and respect. That cop has been suspended pending an investigation, something you don't normally see unless they think there's a reason to. Just like any slice of population, there are good cops and bad ones...thankfully the vast majority are good.

[Skyray]

We have wandered far off topic here.  Seems like all the cops on the board want to re screen, and a precious few of us think that re screen is too expensive and proper supervision would suffice.  Nothing is 100%.  But the rules dealing with CPPT should keep the incidents of perverts and cadets to a minimum, and my opinion is that a periodic re screen is subject to the law of diminishing returns.

[jb512]

Had some bad experiences, or are you just playing make-believe?  Don't mistake a legal, and deserved a$$-kicking for police brutality.  Sometimes cops have to put their hands on people.

Had one bad experience when I was driving too slowly through a bad neighborhood and was stopped by a cop who thought I was driving slowly because I was drunk, was pissed when he found out I wasn't, and was about to bash me with his baton when his supervisor drove up.  I had the pleasure of seeing him fired for dealing cocaine on duty about three weeks later.  And yes, there were racial overtones to the encounter.

So one bad experience that doesn't make much sense anyway, but I'm sure that's how you saw it.  I'll stop now while we're still behaving.

As you said, we're off topic, so let's move on.

I'm not for re-screening as much as I am about following the CPPT to police ourselves.

[floridacyclist]

I see no problem with a periodic re-screen....I think it's $25.00 for CSMs, so just tell the member to cough up $25.00 every 5 years or so. After everything else that we spend on CAP, that would be pretty negligible.

[jb512]

Don't tase me bro!

Sounds like a well-behaved college kid begging the cops to take it easy on him after someone thought he asked too many questions...even the headline stated "College student tased for refusing to stop asking questions at political rally".

What they didn't show was the kid pushing to the front of the line and taking the mic away from the person who was on it...and then resisting hte cops as they tried to drag him off the stage. I'm quite sure that the IA investigation will show that it was a justified tasing....but the press has already had their say on it and to many, this will just be another incident of police brutality.

Of course, the day after that, they did post a video clip of a cop taunting a college kid and calling him little boy while daring him to give him an excuse to teach him about humility and respect. That cop has been suspended pending an investigation, something you don't normally see unless they think there's a reason to. Just like any slice of population, there are good cops and bad ones...thankfully the vast majority are good.

Ehh, there are quite a few kids out there who need those lessons.   

But yes, headlines like those and rating grabbing editing of video clips are what contribute to uninformed people's view on police brutality.  The real cases of it are rare, and what some people perceive as brutality is actually a legal use of force that a person has brought on themselves.  Not everyone will understand that though.