Prospective Member...with questions (go figure!)

[BigMojo]

Hi Everyone...Since this is my first post, I guess I need to buy a round for everyone (N/A's for those flying of course!)

I was recently "made aware" of the CAP by my girlfriend's father who is AF Retired, and after reading a lot on here I fully understand the comments about "The best kept secret in the country". I come from an aviation background, putting many hours in, in the right seat of a 182, and in my hanging around the airport  I just thought CAP was for Cadets, and only had a few adult members to lead them. I must say I was pleasantly surprised when I read more and found out about all the opportunities for adults.

My question is this...

I'm a professional photographer by trade, photojournalism, corporate, sports, etc. I have a bachelors' in photography and business and a masters in Marketing. I have done SAR work with a private, volunteer group in the past and was the "mission photographer" which more often than not meant time in the right seat of another member's 172, conducting searches, and photographing finds (noting Lat/Lon, relaying info to ground teams via VHF, etc...) So, I'm guessing these skills are of use to CAP, and the local squadron has expressed interest, but what should I expect? I've read that other professional vocations lead to advanced rank upon completion of Level I, would this be the case for me? The materials I read said that advanced promotion is for people with "mission related skills" bu only mentions, Pilots, A&P's, Teachers, Medical Pros, Accountants, and Legal folks...

So, What is your opinion? I'm not looking bling out a uniform or anything self-centered like that, I just want to fly and help out as much as I can, I've missed working with my previous group since I moved, and really want to get back into the swing, and I think CAP is the best place for that, and trying to learn as much as possible before taking the plunge.

Thanks in advance.
-b

[RiverAux]

The photography skills will not help in terms of your future CAP rank. 

[jeders]

The photography skills will not help in terms of your future CAP rank. 

However, they can help CAP in general. What you described doing, taking pictures from the right seat of a 172, is one of the things that we do in CAP. In order to do these things, you'll first have to join (wow, imagine that one). Once you've completed the Level I training, you can start training to become a mission scanner, that's the guy that sits in the backseat of the plane, and looks out the side. After that you can train to be an Observer, that's the one that sits in the right seat. You can do all of these things equally well as a Senior Member Without Grade, 2nd Lt, or Col.

As far as rank, no it won't help you, but you can help us, and with time you can promote if you desire to.

[Camas]

I've read that other professional vocations lead to advanced rank upon completion of Level I, would this be the case for me? The materials I read said that advanced promotion is for people with "mission related skills" bu only mentions, Pilots, A&P's, Teachers, Medical Pros, Accountants, and Legal folks.  I just want to fly and help out as much as I can.

Rank, or what we call grade, isn't everything but unless you have specific skills which I won't mention now you'll promote with what we call "duty performance".  Basically this means meeting certain requirements and training and putting in some time-in-grade prior to promoting to the next grade.

I hope that if you decide to join CAP it won't be a case of "I just want to fly" as we have a multitude of opportunities outside of flying including a cadet program and aerospace education as well. I encourage you to check out this page, go to the "pamphlets" link and download CAPP 7 Senior Member Fast Start Handbook which will give you an idea as to what we have to offer.

[pixelwonk]

Welcome to CAPTalk, BigMojo. 
The six months it will typically take for you to receive officer grade will go by pretty fast if you jump into CAP with both feet.  Absorb all you can. Participate as much as you are able.

[BigMojo]

Thanks for the replies everyone...

I guess I used wrong terminology (be gentle I'm new!) I meant if my vocational skills afforded me advancement into what you call the observer program directly based on past experience. 

I'm only 29 so, I have many years to be promoted in grade (that's not my motivation anyways), I just like the idea using my skills for the greater good, not just for personal profit.

I will be going to the local squadron's meeting this week, and will probably "sign on the line", I just want to know all I can in advance.

[jeders]

Thanks for the replies everyone...

I guess I used wrong terminology (be gentle I'm new!) I meant if my vocational skills afforded me advancement into what you call the observer program directly based on past experience. 

I'm only 29 so, I have many years to be promoted in grade (that's not my motivation anyways), I just like the idea using my skills for the greater good, not just for personal profit.

I will be going to the local squadron's meeting this week, and will probably "sign on the line", I just want to know all I can in advance.

As far as getting advanced through the scanner directly to observer, I think this can be done, but is really only for prior military experience.

But don't worry, assuming you can get the 4 missions done (one flight per mission number, training or actual) as well as the other (very) easy training done, you can become an observer in no time.

[Eclipse]

The photography skills will not help in terms of your future CAP rank. 

However, they can help CAP in general. What you described doing, taking pictures from the right seat of a 172, is one of the things that we do in CAP. In order to do these things, you'll first have to join (wow, imagine that one). Once you've completed the Level I training, you can start training to become a mission scanner, that's the guy that sits in the backseat of the plane, and looks out the side. After that you can train to be an Observer, that's the one that sits in the right seat. You can do all of these things equally well as a Senior Member Without Grade, 2nd Lt, or Col.

As far as rank, no it won't help you, but you can help us, and with time you can promote if you desire to.

The scanners are the ones who should be taking the photos - Mission Observers have other duties to perform, not to mention the fact that it is difficult not to get wheels and struts in the shot from the right seat.

As far as advancing more quickly because of prior experience, good photographers are sorely needed in the program, for both standard photography and SDIS, but there aren't even any specific tasks related to photography in either the MS or MO curriculum, the tasks are objective by design, so if you can do them
walking in the door, then you should have little difficulty getting through to the rating(s) quick.

A week spent at NESA-MAS is another way to get from slick sleeves to the wings in about a week.

The fact that there is no structured curriculum in photo recon has been a sore point for me for a LONG time.
We're selling it as a key DR/DA capability, but not training people how to do it.

[floridacyclist]

I taught a scanner class today and we were talking about that..we may be developing something very similar soon. Not just how to take technically good pictures (not as worried about artistic composition here, although an awareness of that may help make the picture clearer), but how to operate the major controls on various types of common cameras, SDIS, and how to quickly get your pictures to where they can do some good from within a disaster zone (chip drops or high-powered WLAN perhaps?) in the absence of SDIS. So far, it's just at the basic discussion stages and we'll welcome all input.

[RiverAux]

There is no provision to skip scanner and go directly to observer that I've ever seen in the regulations.  If there is, please point it out.  Prior military experience makes no difference -- just like we wouldn't let an ex fighter pilot skip right to mission pilot. 

[BillB]

Having skills as a professional photographer, put you in line to also work in the Public Affairs Office. Looking at some of the photos published in local media as well as the CAP National publications, a background in photogrphy can be very valuable. But this requires a knowledge of CAP gained over a period of time, for example knowing uniform regulations to insure you don't have a published photo of someone with a screwed up uniform. All of this can be learned while you work on scanner/observer training. It just takes time.

[BigMojo]

Floridacyclist, you bring up a very valid point...

I shoot with a Nikon D200 as my "field" camera, and even as a pro it took me several weeks of shooting dozens of photos a day to get to the point were it was comfortable for me. But the point is, this camera is immensely powerful, and there is a way of getting near real-time data from an aircraft to a ground crew.

What we did with the volunteer rescue group I was with was this...
The D200 is capable of coding Lat/Lon into the EXIF data attached to every photo file (Data file that contains shutter speed, fstop, etc). Now we had enough room with just two of us in a C172, but I had the camera connected to my laptop, which was connected to Wireless Network through Cingular. I would snap off a photo at each cardinal direction of the site in question, and then email the photos to a ground team member with a similarly equipped laptop and a couple with PDAs. We set up a system, that the first photo was facing north, next east, etc around the orbit. They click on the photo, and it gives them the lat/lon. All this took 10min from first shot, until they were in the hands of the crew on the ground.

Now, I also use a 500mm lens with Vibration Reduction, so my images were almost always razor sharp and showed lots of detail of the find. For us it worked great when looking for lost hikers in the hills, because rather than just radioing in that the hiker is wearing a red shirt and blue jeans, they could see it was red and green flannel untucked, with jeans and a tan backpack with a Vols cap.

I would think some decent training on camera use would go miles in terms of it becoming a more valuable resource. Being able to make adjustments to maximize the quality of a photo without fumbling around saves everyone time and money. I would personally have completely different set-ups for shots at dawn/dusk over mid-day, between lens, filter, iso setting, f-stop and shutter speed.

[floridacyclist]

I thought you weren't allowed to use the cellular network in flight? Using an aircard would be amazingly simple, I just never thought we could from an airplane. We use them on Ground Recon as even if they do not have cell service where they are, they can usually find someplace to stop and email or FTP the pics.

We use geocoding software that matches the photos with the GPS track after we upload it to the laptop. Does the D200 have GPS built-in or do you connect one? I've been looking at a D70, but that might make things a bit more interesting for what I do.....not just for CAP usage, but vacations and our bike ride etc as well (see link below).

[BigMojo]

To the best of my knowledge the "No cell phone" thing is a commercial airline thing, having to do with not being distracted during t/o and landing in case of emergency (same reason you can't use a laptop, etc...

We always used cellular internet in the aircraft. I figure it has to be legal because they make adaptors for headsets to plug into cell phones. (like this: http://www.cellset.com/Aviationitems.html)

The D200 and new D300 as well as the D1, D2x and D3 all can encode lat/lon, but you need an external gps to do it and a connector cable. It looks a little silly, but it works. I have a Garmin Geko that gets velcro'd to a plate that slides into my hot shoe, and a cable goes to the control port. It looks like this when done (not my set equipment, but mine is identical)

[floridacyclist]

To the best of my knowledge the "No cell phone" thing is a commercial airline thing, having to do with not being distracted during t/o and landing in case of emergency (same reason you can't use a laptop, etc...

I have always understood the problem to be that you would hit too many towers from altitude and cause problems for users on the ground.

http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=6275&print=go

I can't find mention of aircards anywhere, but since they use the cellular network, I would think they are covered.

The rest of your setup looks awesome..I may have to revise my next Ebay search

[Eclipse]

To the best of my knowledge the "No cell phone" thing is a commercial airline thing, having to do with not being distracted during t/o and landing in case of emergency (same reason you can't use a laptop, etc...

We always used cellular internet in the aircraft. I figure it has to be legal because they make adapters for headsets to plug into cell phones. (like this: http://www.cellset.com/Aviationitems.html)

Its not.  FAA rules provide the pilot with the authority to order all electronic devices turned off at his disccretion.

>FCC< rules prohibit in-flight use of cellular phones.  Technically there is even an issue with the Sat phones.

[Eclipse]

Sweet camera and setup, this would be perfect for a separate initiative we are working on for satellite / cllular based ground DA, like SDIS on the ground.

How much data does it provide?

[BigMojo]

I did not know that...I was going with the pilot's decision, as I am not a one myself. I can see the hitting too many tower's thing. Why do they sell those adapters for headset then?

In terms of Data, From the GPS I get Lat/Lon, Altitude, Heading and GPS Time.

[Eclipse]

I did not know that...I was going with the pilot's decision, as I am not a one myself. I can see the hitting too many tower's thing. Why do they sell those adapters for headset then?

In terms of Data, From the GPS I get Lat/Lon, Altitude, Heading and GPS Time.

Heh, well they sell a lot of things that can be used for "other than legal use".

They, and similar adapters for radios can be used on flight lines and on the ramp legally, for starters.

[Skyray]

I use my Dave Clark headset with a hand-held when I work route control on things like the Fort Lauderdale Boat Parade.  I have also seem them on the sidelines on coaches in the NFL