Advancded Grade for RM Officers- Split from NCO thread

[RogueLeader]

To help comply with the Mods wishes about keeping Threads to a single topic,  I thought a split was in order.

Here is what I would like to see when RM Officers come into CAP

2nd Lt thru Capt come in at their Grade
Maj+ come in as Capt, but TIG for each is only 6 months until they meet their RM Grade.

For example LTC. X comes in, and signs the forms, and the check.  Boom, gets RR Tracks, six months gets his gold oaks, six months later the gold went silver.

This is so they get real recognition for their achievements, and yet still learn about CAP. 

[MIKE]

Or you could just discontinue advanced grade for everybody... Problem solved.

[SJFedor]

It took me a minute here. I thought at first you were asking about advanced grade for Royal Marine officers.

Are you saying that those above Capt promote every 6 months regardless of PD requirements? That's kinda pointless, and an extreme waste of $$ since, lets say, that person is going to end up at Lt Col in a year. Why bother buying all the uniform bling, and spend all the effort to put it all on correctly just to take it off 6 months later to replace it?

Not to mention the paperwork.

[MIKE]

It took me a minute here. I thought at first you were asking about advanced grade for Royal Marine officers.

Only if they passed the Commando Course. 

[RiverAux]

I think that is just a little too complicated.  Either keep the current system or eliminate as much advanced grade as possible. 

[mikeylikey]

Or you could just discontinue advanced grade for everybody... Problem solved.

I think that is just a little too complicated.  Either keep the current system or eliminate as much advanced grade as possible. 

Agree with both.  Get rid of advanced grade.  Why do we need it?  Why do we even have it around?  I can see, if an 18 year old joins and he sits as a FO 3 years, he is more entitled to CAPTAIN than the 21 year old kid who joins who's mom and dad put him through flight school and he got his CFI.

The whole system is jacked!

[MIKE]

^ But both are still 21 year old captains... which is bad IMO.

[mikeylikey]

^  Yes it should mirror the RM just a little more.  23 year old LT's, 25 year old Captains...etc.  However there are special cases where you will find a 19 year old LT and a 21 year old Captain. 

[Major Carrales]

Or you could just discontinue advanced grade for everybody... Problem solved.

I think that is just a little too complicated.  Either keep the current system or eliminate as much advanced grade as possible. 

Agree with both.  Get rid of advanced grade.  Why do we need it?  Why do we even have it around?  I can see, if an 18 year old joins and he sits as a FO 3 years, he is more entitled to CAPTAIN than the 21 year old kid who joins who's mom and dad put him through flight school and he got his CFI.

The whole system is jacked!

Hummmmmm....

I see CAP advanced ranks for former cadets...I sort of look at the Cadet Program as CAP's form of "ROTC"  (CAP-OTC.)    Former military is strange since Lt Col is as high as they can get (see another thread for this discussion).

If we treated CAP as it's own "sphere," this would not be a problem.

I recall we had a Squadron Commander once that was former military that swaggered and issued orders as if it was the USAF (talk about playing soldier), even threatening to suspend CAP Officers for missing meetings when life interferred (including work and family).  

The unit nearly died.

If only there were a way to haness that officer's leadership skills and infuse CAP culture and issues.

[Major Carrales]

^  Yes it should mirror the RM just a little more.  23 year old LT's, 25 year old Captains...etc.  However there are special cases where you will find a 19 year old LT and a 21 year old Captain. 

Age is a precarious issue in CAP.  When you have 69 year old 2d Lts, this becomes a whole new thing.

[mikeylikey]

I see CAP advanced ranks for former cadets...I sort of look at the Cadet Program as CAP's form of "ROTC"  (CAP-OTC.)    Former military is strange since Lt Col is as high as they can get (see another thread for this discussion).

Now I look at the FO system as being the CAP-OTC.  Cadets are equivalent to the JROTC program at the most.  We should focus on getting Cadets to transfer over to FO at 18, and bring back the OTC format from the 1940's.  Really make an Officer Training Program for the Flight Officers.

[Major Carrales]

I see CAP advanced ranks for former cadets...I sort of look at the Cadet Program as CAP's form of "ROTC"  (CAP-OTC.)    Former military is strange since Lt Col is as high as they can get (see another thread for this discussion).

Now I look at the FO system as being the CAP-OTC.  Cadets are equivalent to the JROTC program at the most.  We should focus on getting Cadets to transfer over to FO at 18, and bring back the OTC format from the 1940's.  Really make an Officer Training Program for the Flight Officers.

I can agree with that.  Right now the Cadet Program and the "Senior" program are not the logical "next step."  Cadets are not trained to become CAP Officers...imagine how CAP would change ifit was made up 90% of trained Cadets.

[mikeylikey]

^  If it were made up of former cadets who advanced just to the Mitchell.....we would have a "kick ass" leadership pool to draw from!

[MIKE]

Drifiting... I'm definately not for advanced grade for commisioned officers and NCOs, but I'm not totally against the idea that you keep what you got. O-3 gets Capt, E-5 gets SSgt.  I would stop issuing equivalent officer grade to warrant officers also, 'cause it's not really is it?

[Major Carrales]

Drifiting... I'm definately not for advanced grade for commisioned officers and NCOs, but I'm not totally against the idea that you keep what you got. O-3 gets Capt, E-5 gets SSgt.  I would stop issuing equivalent officer grade to warrant officers also.

How is it drifting?  It is logical to discuss alternatives this occasion since this is a topic on the issuance of advanced grade.  What's more, your suggestions are as valid/invalid as ours.

So, should we issue equivalent rank to Former Military.  If we kill the practice what are the consequences.

[Eclipse]

Another bunch of time spent hashing something which is absolutely meaningless in the end.

Why do you guys continue to mentally reengineer the program in corners that have no impact on operations?

[mikeylikey]

Another bunch of time spent hashing something which is absolutely meaningless in the end.

Why do you guys continue to mentally reengineer the program in corners that have no impact on operations?

Because we can, and it helps with the movement of innovative ideas.  If you don't like it......keep out of topics you don't want anything to do with!

What do you want us to discuss.  Come on.....tell us what to talk about and we will start talking about it.  You brought up operations.......well give us something operational to discus. 

This is no more far fetched than any of the "crazy idea" posts in the ES forum. 

[BillB]

Over six months ago I brought up the old concept of 18-21 year olds being in an Officer Training Corp program. CAP loses to large a percentage of older cadets in a Squadron composed of 12 year olds. There needs to be an OTC program to train future senior officers, while at the same time allowing OTC members to earn the Spaatz. An OTC program would limit the interaction between the pre-teens and the 18 year olds (keep in mind they are legally adults). To often CAP says a cadet can't so something a 21 year old can do. If there was an OTC program, the OTC member is no longer a cadet, and more activities would open up thus allowing a higher retention rate. The OTC program of the 40's and 50's was aimed at USAF recruiting, now we must look to an OTC program to retain the 18-21 year old members. The former OTC program as it was written could with little modification be put in place with little trouble.  Now is the time for the National Board to look into this.

[mikeylikey]

^  Agreed!  Now that you mentioned it, I remember your postings awhile back on the subject.

[Hawk200]

Another bunch of time spent hashing something which is absolutely meaningless in the end.

Why do you guys continue to mentally reengineer the program in corners that have no impact on operations?

Kinda hard to perform operations when you lack members in sufficient numbers.