Colorado Cadet under investigation for impersinating an officer

[isuhawkeye]

http://www.wgal.com/news/13585777/detail.html#

http://www.hamsexy.com/cms/?p=862


Recently the internet blogger community brought to light the illegal actions of some teenagers in Colorado. 

This group of young men decked out there personal vehicles with red and white flashing lights.  They then proceeded to dress as emergency responders and "assist" motorists on the highways. 

You will notice that one of these young men wears wind breakers with CAP on the back.  This same young man also sports a drop thigh holster. 

[Pylon]

The last time I checked, the CAP was a CIVILIAN auxilliary group of senile old men reminiscing about the Great War and pimply-faced kids in festooned uniforms with Chuck Yeager pipe-dreams.

From this thread.

Wonderful how our reputation preceeds us, isn't it?    Wonder which of those two categories I fall into?   

[isuhawkeye]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1297414080556352887

Heres the video

[capchiro]

Unfortunately, we have a group of potentially good youngsters that are slightly misdirected.  Without the lights (which may or may not be legal in their state), the CAP jacket (whether he is a member or not, that is a no-no), and the possible weapon (which we never see), we have a group of youngsters that are attempting to do some good and not harm for a change.  They are a little bit reminiscent of the Guardian Angels that ride the subways in New York and some of the bigger cities.  With a little bit of direction, they could be conceived to be Good Samaratans for their actions.  However, they are also appearing to be trying to grab hero status and, although not necessarily a bad thing, it needs to be cleaned up a bit.   I really don't think they are impersonating an officer (and I don't want to start any flames, but I don't see police officers stopping to help people along the road, no changing tires, etc., like in the old day), but are out on the road to offer assistance.  I would imagine they would be appreciated in icy cold weather in their area of the country.  Maybe a unified youth action of something like this would be good, get our gangs off the streets and get our clean cut helpful youngsters on the road??  In the old day, also, some of the hot rod car clubs were pledged to help motorist on the road as part of their club membership.

[Chris Jacobs]

The police could work with them instead of trying to stop them.  As capchiro said they just need a little direction.  If they really like the cool looking lights let them keep them.  Maybe make them give up the drop leg and the official looking jackets, but besides that let them go.  Why not use them while they are still excited about the game.

[jimmydeanno]

I don't think they way these gentlemen did this is the right way to go about it.  However, I'd like to bring up another thing...the title of the thread.

The title implies that the cadet is under investigation for impersonating an officer.  But, directly from the news article you posted:

Colorado State Patrol troopers said one of the men was a Longmont volunteer firefighter, so he was allowed to have the flashing red and white lights on his vehicle.

Troopers said the men probably won't face police impersonation charges because they did not represent themselves as officers

perhaps a more fitting title would be:
[Colorado Cadet possibly facing ticket for running a stop sign.]

but they could face traffic charges for the driving seen in the video.

No sense in creating an overreactive situation - you did see the most recent letter from the CC right?

[Sgt. Savage]

Having nothing better to do for a few minutes, I read an entire thread on this at Elightbar.com. Some very discouraging things being said about CAP. This kind of thing definitely brings discredit upon our organization. I'll likely post them to set the story straight.

[Major Carrales]

Having nothing better to do for a few minutes, I read an entire thread on this at Elightbar.com. Some very discouraging things being said about CAP. This kind of thing definitely brings discredit upon our organization. I'll likely post them to set the story straight.

CAP gets a bad rap at many forums.  That is why I get so angry when people start non-sense here and at other "in organization" forums.

[mikeylikey]

I am curious what will happen to these people.  They are lucky no one shot them.  If I saw three kids walking up to me, and I were stranded on the side of the road, and they pulled up in three separate vehicles......I would get that nervous twitch and prepare to confront them.  There are too many crazies out there. 

At the least the one wearing the CAP jacket......if a member of CAP should have his membership terminated immediately.

I suspect that the "they were trying to help motorists" take on the issue was invented by a very awesome lawyer hired after these kids were charged. 

MAKE AN EXAMPLE OUT OF THEM!

[Major Carrales]

In Texas, a person can be cited for "failing to render aid."

[capchiro]

back to the title of the thread, do we know for sure if any of them are cadets?  If not, why does it say "Colorado Cadet"?  Perhaps the volunteer firemand is a cadet fireman??   

[stillamarine]

One of the involved was a cadet in Bismark ND at some point.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Their actions were dumb, immature, and unsafe, but not illegal.  They were allowed to have the red lights (But I don't think for much longer) and they didn't identify themselves as police.

Turning on flashing lights when you stop to aid a motorist on a highway may not be a bad idea.  If I were a volunteer fireman, and I stopped to give aid to a stranded motorist in the winter on a highway, I sure would turn on everything that lit up.

It sounds like there are a few "Drama queens" working at that news station.  The guys didn't do that much wrong.

The video was really dumb, though.

[Flying Pig]

These guys are lucky they arent dead.   I have arrested several violent people when the encounter started just as those encounters did on the video. 

I dont know what the guy had in his leg holster, but the thing that concerns me is that every time he walked up on the car, he had his hand on whatever it was.  Another issue, they were using a basic contact and cover set up.  The guy in the CAP jacket stays back while the other guy contacts, then walks backward convering his partner as the leave the encounter.    That is a Law Enforcement vehicle stop tactic.  Also, a blue jacket with bold yellow lettering?  C'mon.   Thats a law enforcement raid jacket set up, coloring, style and all.
You pull up behind someone on the road with red light flashing, you better be ready for a gun fight.

Law Enforcement does not need to work with these guys as one person suggested. These guys needed to be reigned in.   If they want to put a yellow light on and drive around assisting people, fine, but not full Code 3 stobes.  They had no idea who they were walking up on.

Although they were contacting parked/disabled vehicles, those guys WERE conducting vehicle stops from a TACTICAL standpoint and were totally unprepared for what could have happened.

"Conduct every vehicle stop extending the olive branch of peace, while having a tactical plan to kill everyone in the vehicle"  -Gordon Graham.

[mikeylikey]

^  Now that you pointed that out (the approach they used), I went back and looked at it.......and YUP you are correct!  They most likely got together and said lets play policeman/ LEO.  I hope they use they videos against them in court.  How stupid are people?  Really?? 

[isuhawkeye]

This is not necessarily an isolated incident.  As squadron staff I had the experience of confronting a cadet who showed up with a red light on his dash, and home made door decals.  This cadet's response was that he was using the material to help motorists on his way to the squadron meeting. 

After some investigation it came to my attention that this young man was under investigation for impersonating an officer while committing a felony.

[sardak]

If they really like the cool looking lights let them keep them.

Colorado Revised Statute (CRS) 42-4-238. Blue and red lights - illegal use or possession.
(1) A person shall not be in actual physical control of a vehicle, except an authorized emergency vehicle as defined in section 42-1-102 (6), that the person knows contains a lamp or device that is designed to display, or that is capable of displaying if affixed or attached to the vehicle, a red or blue light visible directly in front of the center of the vehicle.

(2) It shall be an affirmative defense that the defendant was:

(a) A peace officer as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S.; or
They were not.

(b) In actual physical control of a vehicle expressly authorized by a chief of police or sheriff to contain a lamp or device that is designed to display, or that is capable of displaying if affixed or attached to the vehicle, a red or blue light visible from directly in front of the center of the vehicle; or
They were not.

(c) A member of a volunteer fire department or a volunteer ambulance service who possesses a permit from the fire chief of the fire department or chief executive officer of the ambulance service through which the volunteer serves to operate a vehicle pursuant to section 42-4-222 (1) (b)
They were not.

Even if they were one of the above,
CRS 42-4-222. Volunteer firefighters - volunteer ambulance attendants - special lights and alarm systems
Said lights, together with any signal systems authorized by this subsection (1), may be used only as authorized by subsection (3) of this section or when a member of a fire department is responding to or attending a fire alarm or other emergency or when a member of an ambulance service is responding to an emergency requiring the member's services. Except as authorized in subsection (3) of this section, neither such lights nor such signals shall be used for any other purpose than those set forth in this subsection.

The driver, who was a former member of the local emergency unit, is a CAP cadet.

Mike

[BillB]

WIWAC there was an agreement with the County Sheriff and CAP. Cadets were made "Junior Patrolman" or some such title. They did not have red lights, but they did travel the U.S. and state highways in the County. They had a battery, battery cable, a 5 gallon gas can and a tank of compressed air to assist motorists that broke down. This program was in place for a year or two, until cadets got tired of using their gas to make the trips. Normally they were in a CAP uniform (Wing gave approval), but at one point the sheriff issued a badge of some sort to be worn on a khaki uniform with no CAP insignia. If I remember they assisted an average of 10 motorists a month.

[Flying Pig]

www.liveleak.com/view?i=5f97e463a2

Or you could roll up on a simple traffic accident with your CAP Raid jacket  to render aid, hoping only for a small Lifesaving Medal in return......

[LtCol White]

You hate to put a damper on people helping eachother but these cadets don't realize the dangers out there that we (LE's) face everyday in traffic. Traffic stops are the leading cause of deaths of LE's. Not just through violence but from accidents that result from other motorists not paying attention and slamming into the stopped vehicles.

[RiverAux]

I've never seen a CAP jacket like that.  Is it "official"? 

Interesting, this is just what the CG Aux does all the time -- on the water.  Boat on over to people and offer to help....of course, thats what we're supposed to be doing...

[Stonewall]

Looking back, I was borderline one of these kids on the video.  At 17 I was a CAP cadet and a junior firefighter.  When I turned 18 before my senior year, I went to EVOC and already had the 40hr VFF course and EMT under my belt.  No doubt that I dreamed of being the EMS supervisor with an SUV decked out with strobes, LEDs and a siren.  But luckily I had excellent senior members in CAP and great officers at the VFD who steered me in the right direction.

Since those times, dating back to the late '80s, I have seen tons of these types of people in volunteer fire departments and CAP alike.  The 20 or 30-something adult man or woman who lives in some POS apartment working at Subway or delivering pizzas only to support their one and only mission in life; to be a hero.  Grown adults who think CAP is their job, more specifically, Emergency Services.  As if the country has appointed them into this position and that's all they have in life.  Sporting amber or red lights on the station wagon and every tshirt they own has some sort of emblem representing them as a VFF or ES guru. 

Truth is, there are probably some people on this forum who are a bit jealous of those youngsters in the videos.  They live at home and have parents' money to deck their expensive vehicles with about $2000 worth of emergency flashers and sirens.  Trust me, the're expensive.  I used to be responsible for that stuff for our vehicles up in DC.  Between our limo, Tahoe, Expedition, Chrysler 300 and Impala, we spent about $14,000 to have them outfitted.

For some of us, we are lucky.  We get paid to exactly what we want to do in life.  We don't have to use our free time and personal money to do what we love.  Some of these young men and women, who are 18, 19, or even in their early 20s may only have what they get from a VFD or CAP.  Minimal paying jobs but some residual benefits from their wealthy parents, like a red Expedition.  Not to mention room and board.  They may not be qualified to get on with a fire or police dept, or even get into the military for some reason.  Many people want the end result without going through college, and academy or basic training.  Lots of those in CAP.  They are well intentioned, but ill-advised.  They can't understand the level of responsibility, liabilty and reality of the environment in which they think they live.  Lots of us are lucky.  I get paid twice over for doing what I love.  I'm a full-time police officer and part-time airman in security forces.  Only thing missing really, is my love for EMS.  But still being an EMT and qualified in HAZMAT Level III, I am a part of the Disaster Relief/Emergency Response Team.  It's just not full-time, but rather a  contingency mission.

Hopefully these kids will grow out of what they're doing.  I applaud their motivation and desires, but at some point you have to balance your dreams with reality.  I also hope these guys don't roll up on a disabled vehicle only to find a guy contemplating killing his wife, himself and anyone who gets in his way.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Well said, Kirt.

Especially the part about them wanting the excitement and the glory but without the tedious preparation and training.

[flyerthom]

The police could work with them instead of trying to stop them.  As capchiro said they just need a little direction.  If they really like the cool looking lights let them keep them.  Maybe make them give up the drop leg and the official looking jackets, but besides that let them go.  Why not use them while they are still excited about the game.

Let me give you a real life example of why they shouldn't keep them.

This was from my days of volunteer EMS. We were dispatched to an motor vehicle crash - van versus power pole. One of our "junior" volunteers heard the dispatch on his scanner (evil boxes  ) and "whacked" the call. We found him in the van. How he got past the sparking waving broken power line sans getting shocked is still an unknown. What is known is we were on the PA not just instructing but pleading with him NOT TO GET OUT OF THE VAN.

His attempt to be a hero put the victims, himself, our crew, and the power company people all at risk. After the call he got quite the addarectumoy (a real butt chewing) and the worse punishment possible    He got assigned to my crew!
Last I heard he was an EMT-P somewhere in New Jersey. Maybe he learned something that day about thinking and safety first.

[ZigZag911]

Ordinarily item #1 on the ES person's 'to do' list when encountering a situation in which other people need our help is: THINK

This simple process can avoid a lot of grief, mistakes, and needless harm to self & others!

Granted there are occasions when lives are on the line and an immediate reaction is needed.....but this is exceedingly rare for the average CAP member to come across (those who are not professional first responders, that is).

[SARMedTech]

In Texas, a person can be cited for "failing to render aid."

How can you cite someone not responsible for rendering aide (ie a LEO at any time or a EMT or medic while on duty) for failing to do so?  We have some crazy public service laws in NM where I used to live, but none of them says that we must stop and help change a tire, etc. Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "failing to render aide."

Of course in Texas, its also legal to shoot a LEO if he enters your property through or over a fence not having been summoned there  or dispatched there and if it is at night. Its also illegal to be ugly in public in California and in Chicago a fireman has to lead a cow through a covered walkway of the Commodities exchange at least once each year due to an old city ordinance that says that the walkway must be used for the movement of lifestock or be bricked up. Just cause its on the books...yadda yadda

[Major Carrales]

My Friend, I don't make the laws (yet, anyways ), but that is one of them.

[flyguy06]

Stonewall, Flying Pig, and LtCol White,

I agree with you all. These young people were very irresponsible and put themselves at an unnesessary risk.

Were they actually trying to help someone, or were they just trying to show off? A lot of this attitude is perpetuated by TV and how Hollywood glorifies action and adventure. I waas victim to this growing up watching all the war movies I just had to become an infantryofficer. Well when I went to Iraq and actually saw the body bags pf people I knew, it put a whole new persepctive on life for me.

My other question is are we sure the one kid was reresenting Civil Air Patrol? Just because he had a jacket that said "CAP" doesnt mean Civil Air Patrol. I have never seen a Civil Air Patrol jacket in that configuration before.

[stillamarine]

Yes, in discussion with people online he told people he was with Civil Air Patrol which fell under Dept of Homeland Security

[flyguy06]

WOW

[Flying Pig]

In the video, there is writing under the "CAP".   Not to mention, on the front of the jacket he has some type of badge when he turns to walk back to the video camera.

I just want to know what he had in his holser.  Going back to my previous post, whenever he approached a car, he had his hand on it.  Im not saying it was gun, Im inclined to believe it was not.  But it must have been some type of weapon.

What really makes me wonder about their intentions is the nature of the video.  It was definitely a "look at me" video.  Looks like someone was trolling for medals and wanted the video proof to back it up.

[Major Carrales]

Yes, in discussion with people online he told people he was with Civil Air Patrol which fell under Dept of Homeland Security

Oye...Oye...Oye... Let this 2b Hearing officially begin. 

However, suppose someone see's an accident or distressed motorist on th way to a meeting?  What then?

[Eagle400]

However, suppose someone see's an accident or distressed motorist on th way to a meeting?  What then?

If the person who sees the distressed motorist is not sporting code-3 lights on their car and impersonating law enforcement officers, then everything is fine.  That's just being a good samaritan.   

[pixelwonk]

Yes, in discussion with people online he told people he was with Civil Air Patrol which fell under Dept of Homeland Security

Oye...Oye...Oye... Let this 2b Hearing officially begin. 

However, suppose someone see's an accident or distressed motorist on th way to a meeting?  What then?

Simple, Help them if you're able. Call for help if you're not.

Chances are, you won't:

Be wearing a ridiculous CAP raid jacket What's up with that?
Be wearing an even more ridiculous drop holster
Have an buttload of lights on your vehicle
Be videotaping the whole event, as well as a "Squad 51" rollout from the parent's garage with lights flashing as you blow through stop signs.

[Flying Pig]

I dont think anyone is discouraging people from helping anyone.  However,  I always go with the phone call into the local agency first, unless I see a need to stop right away.  Ive been on several accident scenes where the people who stopped to help have become unattended victims themselves by being rear ended. 

Ive also been on a few accidents that were caused by the boyfriend being more concerned with punching his girlfriend in the face vs. his paying attention to the road.

In 10 years, Ive been in 4 shootings.  3 were on vehicle stops.  Now...granted, they knew I was a cop and there were circumstances leading up to it, but criminals like to drive.

Ive made several arrests after stopping to assist a loley female on the side of the road next to her car.  When I get up to the car, who do I see?  Her tatted up parolee boyfriend lookin' at me   

OMG that was funny....I just made that one up....wheeeew!

[Major Carrales]

I just read the full "whacker forum" topic and...I could just be sick.     Not really at anything they said there per se , but that the name of CAP is being soiled by these idiots pretending to be something they are not.

Now...now can we best address this issue?

My suggestions:

1) External Education of CAP really does; including full truth about our relationship to Homeland Security and what we are not allowed to do.

2) Internal Education on what we do and what constitutes "stupidity."  This film is a good "this is what you must not do."

Should this Cadet be 2b'ed?  What say y'all.

[Stonewall]

Should this Cadet be 2b'ed?  What say y'all.

If it can be done, I'd say a 5 year suspension due to "needs maturing".

[pixelwonk]

I just read the full "whacker forum" topic and...I could just be sick.     Not really at anything they said there per se , but that the name of CAP is being soiled by these idiots pretending to be something they are not.

Now...now can we best address this issue?

My suggestions:

1) External Education of CAP really does; including full truth about our relationship to Homeland Security and what we are not allowed to do.

Why get your undies in a bunch about some trolls on a unrelated forum who are looking for laughs amongst themselves? An isolated incident does not warrant a revamp of how CAP presents itself to the nation. If we haven't been doing a good job of that, this is not the result. CAP may acknowledge in a token gesture that one of their members messed up, and it will handle it (hopefully at the local level) and move on.

Move on... there's a thought.

2) Internal Education on what we do and what constitutes "stupidity."  This film is a good "this is what you must not do."

You're right on that one. Any commander or MLO who is aware of this event has an instant Moral Leadership topic on hand. 
Thing is... How many CAP members are going to be aware of this?  Most will be too busy doing what they always do for CAP, at the same time scratching their heads at the poorly executed Professional Conduct Memo.

Yeah, great stuff. Move on. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

2b a cadet for doing a dumb thing?

We won't have any left!

[SARMedTech]

My Friend, I don't make the laws (yet, anyways ), but that is one of them.

Just tell me where to show up to stuff the ballot box vote for you when you run.

[Major Carrales]

My Friend, I don't make the laws (yet, anyways ), but that is one of them.

Just tell me where to show up to stuff the ballot box vote for you when you run.

I live in Jim Wells County in Texas...looked up Ballot Box 13...and you'll know just how much gravity that statement actually carries.

[SARMedTech]

My Friend, I don't make the laws (yet, anyways ), but that is one of them.

Just tell me where to show up to stuff the ballot box vote for you when you run.

I live in Jim Wells County in Texas...looked up Ballot Box 13...and you'll know just how much gravity that statement actually carries.

Well, Major, I dont live in Texas, but Ill send my dad over to vote for you. He lives in Devine and works in San Antonio and has a residence there as well. Just make sure that whatever you run for youre listed on the Republican ticket. The old man breaks out in hives every time he hears the word democrat. He has hives alot around me  his "knee-jerk liberal, bleeding heart son."

[ColonelJack]

Hey, I'm from Chicago ... we know how to make an election come out the way we want it.

I'll just send some of the boys down there.  Rest easy, Sparky.  We'll make it happen for you, buddy.



Jack

[BillB]

Kirt,   check the Regulation, a Squadron Commander can't suspend for over 60 days, and a Wing Commander for over 180 days.
This cadet should get a long talk from the Squadron Commander and a 60 day suspension plus a reduction in grade.

[ZigZag911]

2b a cadet for doing a dumb thing?

We won't have any left!

How about if we limit 2Bs to "dumb, illegal, and discrediting to CAP"?

[Stonewall]

Kirt,   check the Regulation, a Squadron Commander can't suspend for over 60 days, and a Wing Commander for over 180 days.
This cadet should get a long talk from the Squadron Commander and a 60 day suspension plus a reduction in grade.

I wasn't really saying this based on any reg, but rather, saying the kid needs some time away from the program to get some perspctive on life before being allowed to be around cadets or represent CAP.

[mikeylikey]

^  I would imagine a Court ordered probation of some time period is in store for all kids involved!  This will hurt their immediate futures.

[Ned]

^  I would imagine a Court ordered probation of some time period is in store for all kids involved!  This will hurt their immediate futures.

It is worth remembering that no one has yet been charged with a crime, let alone convicted and put on probation.

And while I'm no expert on Colorado law, given that the story indicates that the lights might well be legal for some flavors of volunteer and that they apparently never actually impersonated an officer, it seems likely that the only potential violations of law are fairly minor traffic violations.

Which in California we would call infractions, punishible by a fine only (or volunteer work in lieu of a fine for indigent folks.)

We still need a lot more facts before making any judgments about what, if anything, should happen as a result of this foolishness.

Ned Lee
Former Legal Officer

[JohnKachenmeister]

Thanks, Ned.

From the sounds of some of the posts here, I suspect some people were looking for a rope, a tree, and a horse.

They did something which was dumb and unsafe.  That can be fixed with actions less than the 2b.

The ONLY people that have remarked negatively about the fact that one or more are CAP cadets are folks on a web site that apparently never liked us much anyway ("Senile old men reminiscing about the Great War and pimply-faced teens with Chuck Yeager dreams").

[capchiro]

Hey, I resent that.  I was a pimply-faced teen with Chuck Yeager dreams in 1963-1964.  And then I had dreams about Poncho, but I digress and what was I saying??  Where is my blue polo shirt?  Who is that old gray haired fart looking back at me from the mirror anyway??  Never mind.. Later..

[SARMedTech]

You know, I think we are making a huge deal out of something which isnt a deal at all yet, yet alone a big one. Something like this occurred in the not two distant past with some younger USCG Auxies and they were actually pretending to be LEOs. My teenager days are further away than i would like them to be, but these were some kids who had their teenage motivations for doing whatever they did and it doesnt sounds like it was to pillage society. They were silly teenagers. And while they will probably be called to answer for their actions at some point, the real question here is what if any laws did they break and who, if anyone, was harmed. When I worked as a defense law paralegal, we were constantly assigned  cases from juvenile court for kids that did far worse things than what it seems occurred here (ie stabbing their classmate with a home-made shank, or breaking into the home of the attractive next door neighbor lady in the middle of the night because they had a crush on her.) If the law where these cadets live is anything like it is where I live, they MIGHT be found delinquent, since out here, juveniles are not found guilty they are found delinquent and here, judges like to give lots of community service time...LOTS and LOTS of it...really UNPLEASANT community service ala the TV show Dirty Jobs. The fortunate thing here I suppose is that they didnt come across a LEO during their escapades and because they were being silly, get hurt because one of them had his hand on whatever that was in the holster...who knows, maybe they just watched Dog the Bounty Hunter too often and armed themselves with industrial sized cans of OC. These are teenagers, folks and teenagers (along with alot of other folks) do stupid things. I dont think they deserve to be hung for it or even necessarily spend anytime in juvenile corrections. One of the worst things that could happen is that a judge could order that they have nothing to do with CAP for a time and if they are the type of cadets I have encountered so far, this would drive home the behaviour point more instantly than just about anything.

[flyguy06]

You know, I think we are making a huge deal out of something which isnt a deal at all yet,

So, whats new with the folks that visit this site? 

[floridacyclist]

The ONLY people that have remarked negatively about the fact that one or more are CAP cadets are folks on a web site that apparently never liked us much anyway ("Senile old men reminiscing about the Great War and pimply-faced teens with Chuck Yeager dreams").

Opinions don't form in a vacuum.

Given that those remarks were made in what many would consider a private forum type of environment (he never expected us to be reading about it) I wouldn't worry too much about it; it's locker-room talk.

What concerns me is further on in the thread, there are some very real negative stereotypes brought up in connection with us that are coming from what appears to be the professional LE/EMS community. Whether they are related to isolated incidents or not, we need to be concerned with how these stereotypes get their start in the first place, and how they are reinforced. More importantly, how do we counter them? What lessons can we learn, and how can we improve our training and command/control to avoid these issues in the first place?

Rather than just writing them off because we don't like what we say, I think we need to read wht they say about us, and take a long hard look at how we may be reinforcing those stereotypes by how we act around other agencies. Professionalism and recognizing that while we may have a useful role in emergency response,  we are not God's gift to the community is a good start. We have the same problem in ham radio where some guys go a little overboard dressing up like Little Lord Fauntleroy and riding in like Teddy Roosevelt up San Juan Hill.

Incidentally, we had a joint missing persons exercise with the Tallahasse Fire Department USAR team the other day and the first thing their training chief wanted to know was if I expected to be the IC. I told him "No sir, we were hoping that you would take that role so that us and the SE K9 SAR team can better learn how to work for you as a force multiplier". He showed up with a mobile command post, a bunch of trucks and FFs and we had a grand old time. I don't think it would have gone anywhere if I'd told him that CAP was used to being in charge on SAR missions.

[SARMedTech]

You know, I think we are making a huge deal out of something which isnt a deal at all yet,

So, whats new with the folks that visit this site? 

I havent been able to get a full look at the video yet because i am currently using a dinosaur of a laptop with dialup since my DSL went up the spout. Interestingly, I dont think it will end up that these youngsters did a whole lot wrong. OK the lights they are using may not be kosher in CO. It may be found that their attire could be construed as intended to lead a "reasonable person under reasonable circumstances" when accompanied with the lights that they are actually an official emergency crew of some sort. But you know, down in my second home of NM, if they had paid the $75 bucks for a non- profit license and filed the right paper work and called themselves "The New Mexico Motorist Aide Society" (an actual group that exists in NM) they would have had their pictures on the news as community heroes and doers of good deeds. In so far as I know (I will let Ned field this one  ), its not illegal to spend your own time and money and carry tire repair kits, and a tool box and a gas can in your SUV (the only thing that bothers me about the SUV is that working four actual emergency services gigs, I still couldnt afford it) and assist stranded motorists. It might be slightly dangerous, not knowing what you might walk up on, but not illegal. Lets just hope the punishment fits the "offense" for lack of a better term and that they arent drummed out of CAP for it. They should probably be more concerned about misrepresenting the ski patrol with that jacket. Funny thing about Americans, we are always looking for someone doing something wrong, that we miss the well-intentioned (if misguided) amongst us who are trying to help. Yeah I think we can put away the hanging ropes for now.

[Major Carrales]

Incidentally, we had a joint missing persons exercise with the Tallahasse Fire Department USAR team the other day and the first thing their training chief wanted to know was if I expected to be the IC. I told him "No sir, we were hoping that you would take that role so that us and the SE K9 SAR team can better learn how to work for you as a force multiplier". He showed up with a mobile command post, a bunch of trucks and FFs and we had a grand old time. I don't think it would have gone anywhere if I'd told him that CAP was used to being in charge on SAR missions.

This is the approach we take when working with county and local government.  We approach them as an asset for their use, not the reverse.

Now, one thing I did see that that website that has been a bit of an opposite here is a good number of former members of CAP actually defending CAP...even when they were slightly disgruntled.  In other words, they don't go out and form webpages and blogs trying to "bring down" CAP officials or launch organizational destroying "blockbuster" strikes.

[RAZOR]

Kirt,   check the Regulation, a Squadron Commander can't suspend for over 60 days, and a Wing Commander for over 180 days.
This cadet should get a long talk from the Squadron Commander and a 60 day suspension plus a reduction in grade.

Which Regulation would that be?

[MIKE]

CAPR 35-1 ASSIGNMENT AND DUTY STATUS

[flyguy06]

You know, I think we are making a huge deal out of something which isnt a deal at all yet,

So, whats new with the folks that visit this site? 

I havent been able to get a full look at the video yet because i am currently using a dinosaur of a laptop with dialup since my DSL went up the spout. Interestingly, I dont think it will end up that these youngsters did a whole lot wrong. OK the lights they are using may not be kosher in CO. It may be found that their attire could be construed as intended to lead a "reasonable person under reasonable circumstances" when accompanied with the lights that they are actually an official emergency crew of some sort. But you know, down in my second home of NM, if they had paid the $75 bucks for a non- profit license and filed the right paper work and called themselves "The New Mexico Motorist Aide Society" (an actual group that exists in NM) they would have had their pictures on the news as community heroes and doers of good deeds. In so far as I know (I will let Ned field this one  ), its not illegal to spend your own time and money and carry tire repair kits, and a tool box and a gas can in your SUV (the only thing that bothers me about the SUV is that working four actual emergency services gigs, I still couldnt afford it) and assist stranded motorists. It might be slightly dangerous, not knowing what you might walk up on, but not illegal. Lets just hope the punishment fits the "offense" for lack of a better term and that they arent drummed out of CAP for it. They should probably be more concerned about misrepresenting the ski patrol with that jacket. Funny thing about Americans, we are always looking for someone doing something wrong, that we miss the well-intentioned (if misguided) amongst us who are trying to help. Yeah I think we can put away the hanging ropes for now.

But they didnt actaully "help" anybody. They kinda walked up and went back to their car and left. What community service did they perform?

[SARMedTech]

Does the video show clearly whether or not anyone was in the car?

[flyguy06]

There was somone in the car but I believe all the kids did was go up to the car, thrust their chest and leave.

[JohnKachenmeister]

There was somone in the car but I believe all the kids did was go up to the car, thrust their chest and leave.

"Hello... do you need any help?"

"No, I've already called for help on my cell phone, and someone's on the way."

"Good.  Have a nice day."

So... why are so many panties in a bunch?

[Sgt. Savage]

I don't think it's as much about what they did as it is the manner in which they did it. Drop leg holsters, CAP jacket, red lights and code 3 response... all a little irresponsible. You have to see their video to understand that at best, they were putting their own safety at risk. At worst, they were risking the safety of others for what appears to be an ego driven wannabe cop kinda thing.

The CAP cadet should be disciplined. The rest??? I don't think this has to be a big deal, I DO think that CO wing PA needs to put out a release that will minimize the damage caused to our reputation.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I agree, there needs to be some discipline, but a 2b (as some have enthusiasticly endorsed) is too harsh.

Wall-to-wall counseling comes to mind here.

[floridacyclist]

Maybe we can just turn Capt Wedley loose on them.

[SARMedTech]

I don't think it's as much about what they did as it is the manner in which they did it. Drop leg holsters, CAP jacket, red lights and code 3 response... all a little irresponsible. You have to see their video to understand that at best, they were putting their own safety at risk. At worst, they were risking the safety of others for what appears to be an ego driven wannabe cop kinda thing.

The CAP cadet should be disciplined. The rest??? I don't think this has to be a big deal, I DO think that CO wing PA needs to put out a release that will minimize the damage caused to our reputation.

I second that.

[flyerthom]

I agree, there needs to be some discipline, but a 2b (as some have enthusiasticly endorsed) is too harsh.

Wall-to-wall counseling comes to mind here.

A mentor, someone who's been there, done that, worn out the t shirt. And old saw is "training takes the place of panic." A good mentor and training can also take the place of stupidity and risk taking.