Revoking Squadron Charters

[Timbo]

Pennsylvania Wing has sent an email out, which I find very disturbing.  It reads;

To All concerned ;

At the Wing Executive Committee meeting yesterday the continuing state of probation that the Pennsylvania Wing is currently under makes the following drastic measure imminent.

If you will recall last April dozens of members were sent to the 000 squadron in order to come into compliance with OPSEC and th safety program regulations. National mandated we have 100% compliance and after many requests over a period of weeks there were still members who would not or could not comply with Wings request, so they were removed from active status so the rest of us could continue as 100% compliant.

We have a similar situation this year.

Some squadrons are compliant, now, some are working on the program, others have not begun.

We have been given until the end of January to complete the 3 part safety requirement.

On February 1st any squadron not in full compliance with the Safety program will have their charter revoked!

Yes...you heard me correctly.

Col. Lee can not risk slipping back into non-compliance , especially during this probation period.
Or we could face another Wing wide shut down.

The only way to avoid that is to revoke any charter who has not completed the 3 part safety program on time.

That way the Wing is only comprised of squadrons who are in compliance and therefor the Wing will be 100% within the regulation.

I sent a list of what reports are due and when, 3 different times this year. I asked you to all print it out and keep it handy where you do your CAP work.

Also on Friday I sent a reminder of the 3 items needed to be compliant with the safety regulation .That was before I got the word from Col Lee about the severe consequences he has planned for failure to comply.


Lt Col Metz also sent reminders. One also on Friday.

Its crunch time now. You have Two weeks left.

Those who have done it , thank you.

Those working on it...thank you also, we have 2 weeks to finish.

Everyone else...please let me know if there is a problem with you getting finished on time and the group 1 staff will do our best to help you.

Col Lee is serious and determined. 

My question.....can a Wing Commander shut down and revoke a charter (disband) a Squadron for something like this??  I was under the impression that only National may revoke a Charter (it has issued) and for very specific reasons. 

[Pylon]

I don't see why a Wing Commander wouldn't have the authority to shut down a unit under his or her command when they have failed to comply with direct and repeated orders.

[ThorntonOL]

 Paragraphs 8 and 9 below from  CAP REGULATION 20-3 (E) CHARTERS AND OTHER ORGANIZATION ACTIONS.

8. Deactivation of Units. Wing commanders are authorized to deactivate units for good cause. This is accomplished by submission of a properly prepared CAPF 27 with a concise statement on the reverse outlining the reasons for the action. (A copy must be forwarded IMMEDIATELY to the affected unit and, if applicable, its parent group.) On all deactivations, the CAPF 27 should be annotated to include the unit to which members of the deactivated unit will be assigned. In the absence of this information, National Headquarters will automatically assign all members to the wing headquarters at-large units (XX000). Wing commanders must ensure that there has been a proper accounting of the unit's funds as evidenced by a closing final report (CAPF 173, Financial Record for Units Below Wing Level) in accordance with CAPR 173-1, Financial Procedures and Accounting Report for Units Below Wing Level. Upon deactivation, the wing finance committee will either request from the unit or perform for themselves, a reconciliation of unit bank account(s). All funds remaining in the accounts) should be turned over to the wing. If the remaining funds are to be transferred to another unit, the wing finance committee must be informed of the unit receiving the funds and the amount of funds transferred. Additionally, all financial records should be forwarded to the wing headquarters. Also, any real property (land, buildings), aircraft, vehicles, equipment, and supplies must be properly inventoried and transferred in accordance with CAPR 67-1, CAP Supply Regulation; CAPR 87-1, Acquiring and Accounting for Real Estate and Facilities for CAP; and CAPR 100-2, Communications Equipment Management.

9. Reactivation of Former Units. Deactivated units may be reactivated at the discretion of the wing commander upon proper application and payment of the usual charter fee. Original name and charter number may be requested.

--------------------------------------------------

This is what the knowledgebase offered.

[Hobbsh1]

I am a Commander in this Wing and we were given 1 year to get our asses in gear with the paperwork side of things and if the squadron did not comply.... well then they deserve to be revoked.  Do units in other Wings want to have to cover for us again???  I know that I would rather be the unit called on in Southwest PA instead of a unit from Ohio or WV.  The Safety requirements were completing an on-line safety survey by the 15th of Jan, a Unit Commander's Safety Policy, and list of topics for each months safety lecture with a topic for Oct Safety Down Day.  Wasn't really all that complicated.

[Tubacap]

^Concur

[JC004]

*yawn*  I just pretend that notices don't exist if they fail to send them to me for the web site... 

[Hobbsh1]

Just to let some folks in here know, this is the email that I received on the 14th of Jan from the Wing Administrator....
Good morning Group 1,

"As most of you know the time of year is upon us to send in all the fun paperwork that is due.  Right now, I am going to concentrate on the SAFETY forms.  Please see Decembers Wing Mail for a copy of the Safety Letter LtCol Barry Metz sent out regarding this matter.  To recap: 

1)       The annual Safety Survey should be completed and is available on E-Services under Safety.  Because this is done online, Wing does not need to receive of copy of this.

2)      The Unit Commander Safety Policy is required to be done by 15 Jan 09. The form need to be submitted to your Group Safety Officer who will then forward to Wing. 

3)      A Safety Schedule indicating a yearly schedule of dates and topics of the Unit Monthly Safety  Meeting and any related events, such as October Safety Down Day, must be submitted to Group Safety Officer and then forwarded to Wing. 

I do know that some of you have submitted the paperwork to the Group Safety Officer, however I have not received any Safety Paperwork as of yet.  Please make sure everything is submitted to the proper authorities in a timely manner.  Thank you for your cooperation!"

As I said before, if someone could not comply with just those three safety things then maybe a change of command should be held.  The on-line survey (CAPR 62-1 section 3 sub section c) took all of about 20 mins to complete, the monthly safety training is only 12 sessions (CAPR 62-1 section 3 sub section d) one of which has to be ORM (CAPR 62-1 section 3 subsection d sub-sub section 1) and from what I understand units are allowed to reuse the previous year's schedule.

I was told that the Group 1 Commander was hand holding our squadron.  Well, to those who think that, why don't ya'll come on down and visit our unit and see how he hand holds us.  NOBODY IS HAND HOLDING OUR UNIT!!!  We set up all our Ground Team training, we go through Group and then Wing to set up any training that we want a training mission number for.. it took up to 3 months one time to get a training mission number.  Group 1 Commander does NOT hold our hand or pull any strings for us.  If anything the man is harder on us since he is the one that started our unit.  Our GT members don't just get their SQTRs signed off just because they sat through a class, we have tests that we use and each member must pass that test before qualified members will sign off.

[RiverAux]

PA Wing is massively over-reacting by punishing individual members for the failures of their leaders.   The proper punishment for failure to comply could consist of any (or all) of the following actions:
1.  firing the unit commander
2.  demoting the unit commander
3.  grounding the unit from any flying and from any use of CAP vehicles.
4.  Suspension of approval for any planned activities for that unit that haven't taken place yet (FTXs, etc.). 

Revoking the charter for this is just plain dumb.   Moving the members who failed to comply with OPSEC to the 000 unit was a proper action last time, but this is a different story.

[ThorntonOL]

If he revokes the charter the member still have to transfer elsewhere so there really isn't much of a difference then what happened last year according to what i've read so far other than its the members who are also active that are affected.

[NC Hokie]

PA Wing is massively over-reacting by punishing individual members for the failures of their leaders.

I concur.  It's likely that the rank-and-file members of these squadrons don't even know what is going on.  Fire the responsible commanders and safety officers and make IMMEDIATE completion of the requirements a prerequisite for their replacements.  Anything more than that punishes the innocent.

[Hobbsh1]

PA Wing is massively over-reacting by punishing individual members for the failures of their leaders.

I concur.  It's likely that the rank-and-file members of these squadrons don't even know what is going on.  Fire the responsible commanders and safety officers and make IMMEDIATE completion of the requirements a prerequisite for their replacements.  Anything more than that punishes the innocent.

I have to disagree with you and RiverAux on this one.  Like I said before the units had one year to get up par and either didn't or waited untill the last minute to do it.  With the amount of hoop jumping we had to do last year every member should have known what was at stake.  My squadron mates were all on top of the safety issue throught out the year so I couldn't forget about it.

[Hobbsh1]

off topic..... why is my ip showing up on my posts?  Is there a setting I need to fix?.... back on topic

[RiverAux]

Like I said before the units had one year to get up par and either didn't or waited untill the last minute to do it. 

You're missing the point.... the UNIT didn't fail...the SQUADRON COMMANDER failed.  What could SM Snuffy Smith do about this requirement that they probably didn't even know about?  Why should the unit he has been a part of for 20 years get thrown in the trash heap because his Squadron Commander is lazy?

[ThorntonOL]

you can only see your own, as i looked at yours but it is labeled Logged but mine shows the IP.
So it's only on your account that your IP shows.

[NC Hokie]

I have to disagree with you and RiverAux on this one.  Like I said before the units had one year to get up par and either didn't or waited untill the last minute to do it.  With the amount of hoop jumping we had to do last year every member should have known what was at stake.  My squadron mates were all on top of the safety issue throught out the year so I couldn't forget about it.

I guess it's good for your squadron mates that you were responsive to their concerns.  Had you turned a deaf ear to them, how would they have ensured compliance?

[Hobbsh1]

I have to disagree with you and RiverAux on this one.  Like I said before the units had one year to get up par and either didn't or waited untill the last minute to do it.  With the amount of hoop jumping we had to do last year every member should have known what was at stake.  My squadron mates were all on top of the safety issue throught out the year so I couldn't forget about it.

I guess it's good for your squadron mates that you were responsive to their concerns.  Had you turned a deaf ear to them, how would they have ensured compliance?

NC Hokie, and RiverAux, I kinda see what you two are getting at.  The Commander definetly should be fired, and the excuse of "I didn't know" should not work since there are list servers that every member should be on to receive the emails.  That's how I know about what is needed for the Safety requirements and especially in Group 1 here in PA, the Commander sends out emails to all unit Commanders.

Off topic...Also, thanks ThorntonOL for your reply about the ip adress. Back on topic.

[FW]

Like I said before the units had one year to get up par and either didn't or waited until the last minute to do it. 

You're missing the point.... the UNIT didn't fail...the SQUADRON COMMANDER failed.  What could SM Snuffy Smith do about this requirement that they probably didn't even know about?  Why should the unit he has been a part of for 20 years get thrown in the trash heap because his Squadron Commander is lazy?

The 3 items the units must comply with are relatively simple and should have been completed within the first quarter of the fiscal year (by 31 December).    The PAWG commander has no choice in the matter as, the region/cc and CAP/CC are also very serious in having 100% compliance.   This is a unit failure. Where is the unit safety officer?  Where is the unit operations officer?  Where is the unit emergency services officer? Where is the unit cadet programs officer?  They all are responsible for getting this stuff done (every member is considered a "safety officer").  If the units are deactivated, members will probably become attached to their respective groups.  All money/property will be transferred to the group and, of course, the unit's commander will no longer be a commander.
It would be much simpler if all units just finished the requirements on time.  I find it amazing how people want to keep testing the system.  

[Hobbsh1]

^^ and those same members could probably request a transfer to the next closest unit, too.  I know some member already travel a great distance to get to meetings but I feel if you really wanted to continued to make a commitment then maybe the distance wouldn't be so bad.  I can tell you right now from WCS601 Commander's stand point, I would be more than willing to except members from anywhere, young, old, male, female, cadet, senior member, new member or someone with 20 or 25 or more years of experience.

The point I'm trying to make is that just because a unit's charter is revoked doesn't mean it's the end of the CAP road.

Grammar correction

[RiverAux]

Hmmm, yet only one Wing in the country has felt the need to threaten squadron deactivation for the failure of the squadron commander on this issue.  Seems to me that if the PA Wing commander is so poor a leader that this is the only way they can get compliance, then they need to be relieved right now.   Heck, I think he/she needs to be relieved for even suggesting such an (insert curseword combined with negative adjetive here) move. 

[Eclipse]

Hmmm, yet only one Wing in the country has felt the need to threaten squadron deactivation for the failure of the squadron commander on this issue.  Seems to me that if the PA Wing commander is so poor a leader that this is the only way they can get compliance, then they need to be relieved right now.   Heck, I think he/she needs to be relieved for even suggesting such an (insert curseword combined with negative adjective here) move. 

What happens when we ASSUME?

Just because other Wings haven't chosen to air their laundry publicly, doesn't mean there have not been direct conversations.

[Hobbsh1]

Hmmm, yet only one Wing in the country has felt the need to threaten squadron deactivation for the failure of the squadron commander on this issue.  Seems to me that if the PA Wing commander is so poor a leader that this is the only way they can get compliance, then they need to be relieved right now.   Heck, I think he/she needs to be relieved for even suggesting such an (insert curseword combined with negative adjetive here) move. 

Well, from what I understand, this was the only Wing that was shut down in the last year for failing to do the required paperwork regarding Safety.  Poor leader or bad leader really makes no difference in this situation.  There were plenty of emails sent out about what Safety items were required to be done and when they were required to be done.  It was NOT a SECRET.  I would not be surprised if you asked any member in any unit who was shut down for safety reasons and the response be the PA Wing.

When we were put on probation last year, it was drummed into our heads that safety must be in the forfront of all we do, both CAP and personal.  There is no reason that anyone should not have known that this was needed.  Everyone from SM Bag"o"donuts to Col Patriotic, new member to 100yr member, with all cadets mixed into the middle should have been reminding the Commander and Safety Officer about safety (yes I know that sounds asinine).  The only thing that I have not been able to find.....YET.... in the regs is the requirement for the safety policy letter, but that's because I have not looked hard enough yet.  The requirements for the monthly safety training is located in CAPR62-1, as is the requirement for doing the online safety survey.

[RiverAux]

But the Bag o donuts guy can't do one single thing to make his commander turn in the paperwork so why should he be punished? 

Apparently, these particular requirements were never posted on PA Wing's web page (according to the webmaster), so I wouldn't be so sure that this was very widely known.  And even if they were, most CAP members are not going to be going up to their Squadron Commander and asking them whether they turned in all of the dozens of reports and other documents required by CAP.  When was the last time you asked your commander if they turned in the monthly vehicle report form? 

[Hobbsh1]

But the Bag o donuts guy can't do one single thing to make his commander turn in the paperwork so why should he be punished? 

Apparently, these particular requirements were never posted on PA Wing's web page (according to the webmaster), so I wouldn't be so sure that this was very widely known.  And even if they were, most CAP members are not going to be going up to their Squadron Commander and asking them whether they turned in all of the dozens of reports and other documents required by CAP.  When was the last time you asked your commander if they turned in the monthly vehicle report form? 

The only way that I see the average member being "punished" is that they may have to travel a little further to attend meetings, yeah I guess that's punishment.  The newer folks will be punished more for their timing of joining, but the other members, Commander and Safety Officer still should have given them the same head cramming of safety.  I have a member in my unit that was a little upset because something was cancelled due to inclement weather, but he still has to understand the safety aspect of what is going on in our Wing.  This situation has nothing to with AE reports, monthly vehicle reports, finacial statements, this is strictly Safety and only 3 items, 2 of which are in the regs.

Well fiddle, I guess the more I discuss and think about this, I guess the charter revocation is a bit steep but it is the Wing Commander's discretion when it comes to being in compliance and if it is his decision to take these steps.... well I don't know.

If any of those unit revocations happen close to our squadron, they are more than welcome to attend our unit meetings.

[Short Field]

It still comes down to the squadron leadership - and it has failled.  Fire the Safety Officer, the Commander, and the Deputy Commander.  Give their replacement's a month to show progress.  If it isn't there, then revoke the charter.   

I have seen very little that the "Bag o donuts guy" can do to make his squadron commander do anything.  Squadron Commander's serve at the pleasure of the Wing Commander - not the membership.

[tarheel gumby]

This comes down to some commanders not doing their jobs..... but All members should have the mindset that safety is the 1st and most aspect in everything that we do. While I agree that the PAWG action might be seen as adverse, it is more than likely necessary. As to wether or not it is punishment for rank and file members they should hold their higher ups feet to the fire and demand accountability from them. Just my opinion

Every squadron/ unit should have a sign at the door that says every body is a safety officer..... meaning that safety is everybodys job.

[RiverAux]

As to wether or not it is punishment for rank and file members they should hold their higher ups feet to the fire and demand accountability from them.

How?  There is absolutely no mechanism for individual CAP members to hold anyone accountable.  Remember, this isn't a democracy.  Members are only members at the whim of their superiors, not the other way around.

Every squadron/ unit should have a sign at the door that says every body is a safety officer..... meaning that safety is everybodys job.

A nice platitude, but Joe Average senior member can't submit his units safety meeting schedule or fill out the annual safety survey. 

[IceNine]

I hate to say it but I think River is right on this one.

The 2 units that I've had the displeasure of shutting down it was not an easy mental process.  I asked myself a few questions.

1) Does the commander deserve to be removed or can we fix the problems?
2) Is there someone who can and will replace the commander?
3) Is there ANY other option?

If the answer to all those was no THEN and only then would I deactivate the unit.

In this particular situation I would fire and demote the commander, demote the safety officer, and work on rebuilding.

Deactivating a unit should ALWAYS be the absolute last end of the line decision.

I'll admit it is much easier to deactivate a unit than it is to provide the manpower to rebuild it but at the end of the day if we deactivate units we are displacing members, and the reality of that as I know all to well is that you will lose probably 60+% of members that were previously in these units.

While pulling the trigger on your threats can be a valuable tool it is much better to start low and work your way up to threats like deactivation.

[tarheel gumby]

As to wether or not it is punishment for rank and file members they should hold their higher ups feet to the fire and demand accountability from them.

How?  There is absolutely no mechanism for individual CAP members to hold anyone accountable.  Remember, this isn't a democracy.  Members are only members at the whim of their superiors, not the other way around.

River I have to disagree with you on that one there is an IG complaint process, and safety is a very serious issue and would be an appropriate ave to follow if the commanders are not doing their jobs.

[RiverAux]

As to wether or not it is punishment for rank and file members they should hold their higher ups feet to the fire and demand accountability from them.

How?  There is absolutely no mechanism for individual CAP members to hold anyone accountable.  Remember, this isn't a democracy.  Members are only members at the whim of their superiors, not the other way around.

River I have to disagree with you on that one there is an IG complaint process, and safety is a very serious issue and would be an appropriate ave to follow if the commanders are not doing their jobs.

So, just how am I, a regular old member, supposed to know when my squadron commander is delinquent in sending in reports required of the squadron?  Unless the Wing Commander sends an email blast to the entire unit specifically saying that my squadron is not in compliance, how am I to know?  And, if the Wing would rather deactivate an entire squadron rather than punish a single member not doing their job (the squadron commander), just how far is an IG complaint going to go?  Heck, my squadron would have just been deactivated, so I'm supposed to file a complaint against a guy who isn't the commander anymore because the unit is gone?

[tarheel gumby]

Sorry, I was comming from the premise that most if not all squadrons have senior staff meetings where the business with the group and wing gets discussed and dealt with. I am just one of those pains in the butt that asks allot of questions

[Alpha]

 I totally disagree with River Aux on this one..

All this second guessing the Wing Commanders decision and alternate suggestions of how you would have handled the situation doesn't get the mission accomplished.

Col. Lee 's plan as painful as it is, brings the entire wing into 100% compliance on Feb 1.

All your suggestions ...fire the commanders, fire the safety officers, require 30 days to complete...etc...etc...still put PA Wing into non compliance on Feb 1 and there by subject to having violated probation and ,SHUT DOWN! 

Only Col Lee's plan assures the Wing is 100% compliant on February 1st.  That is what national mandated and that is what he is going to do.
To me that shows superior leadership.

That is exactly what leadership is all about. Making the tough decisions to get the job done.

He is looking at the big picture. Wing and the Groups have repetedly sent reminders and lists of required reports. There has been 10 months since the shut down and EVERYONE knows why we were shut down...sfety paperwork.

All the talk of firing commanders and safety officers may be right to do, but after the charter is suspendid. They are not in hot water until the end of January. I would bet there will be 100% compliance by then....which is all the Wing wants.

[RiverAux]

I keep going back to the fact that no other wing in the country is making such a threat to get this job done.  Hard to argue that the PA action is therefore not extremely out of the mainstream.

[Major Carrales]

WOW, World Peace through Mutually Assured Destruction...what a concept that would have been.

[Alpha]

I keep going back to the fact that no other wing in the country is making such a threat to get this job done.  Hard to argue that the PA action is therefore not extremely out of the mainstream.

No other Wing in the country has been totally shut down for lack of 100% paperwork either....now that is harsh!

Drastic times call for drastic measures.

[Hobbsh1]

OK, hopefully I can end this topic here and now.
1. I have come to agree with RiverAux about it being a harsh punishment.
2. I agree that it pretty much is going to punish SM Bag"o"donuts.
3. I still have NOT heard of any other Wing that has been shut down COMPLETELY due to lack of paperwork on safety.... mind you it was also a little bit more than just paperwork, e.g.  taillight out on a van, fire extinguisher not in the van but at the unit location (and it was the van's extinguisher, not the building) (/heresay) a sock stuffed in the vent of an aircraft to stop cold air from coming in (/endheresay).  It all added up for the shut down.... it was basically called COMPLACENCY!!!

But I would be willing to bet a CAP paycheck  (I'm talking some big CAP bucks here now )  that come Feb 1 there will be NO PAWING CAP unit charter revocation due to the fact that what is required to be completed will be completed.

To RiverAux specifically, I have to admit that you did make me think twice about my original reply to Timbo..... Good on ya.

[lordmonar]

Y'all need to just let the PAWG CC run his wing.

How many times have we lamented that no one in CAP is willing to hold their subordinated accountable.

Well here we have leadership in action.  Group accountablity.  We are not only holding the commanders accountable but now we are holding Average Joe accountable to get Joe Bagodoenuts off his forth point of contact.

Good job PAWG.....go get them!

[Nathan]

Really? Really?

We're really going to hold cadets and average joe SM's responsible for the duties of the Squadron CC? If so, then I deserve a BIG promotion, because if I could handle that job already, then I'm WAY below where I should be.

Honestly folks, achieving 100% compliance at the cost of tens, hundreds of members? Maybe some members will survive the shut-down and be able to transfer to other squadrons (or wings, mind you), but if you even lost ONE cadet airman to this, would it really be worth it? Do you really want to buck on the fact that the extra twenty, thirty, sixty minutes of travel time isn't really going to affect a cadet or cadet's parents, so long as the cadet REALLY wants to go? You really think that it's unlikely having to move to a different meeting night, a different squadron with different goals, with different people, is going to matter to the truly dedicated?

Really?

Don't forget what kind of role CAP plays in people's lives. We DO matter, we DO have a purpose, and shutting down a unit for the failure of one individual is a pithy scare-tactic designed to satisfy some bureaucratic necessity that, to be honest, doesn't affect most people in CAP. I'm a C/Col, and I've been around the program on both the cadet and senior side enough to consider myself quite knowledgeable, and I'm not particularly savvy on most safety requirements for a unit. That's stuff the C/CC and the Safety Officer need to know, not me. That's not my job in the unit. Do you have any idea how many emails I get that I don't even bother skimming? "The vehicle XXXXX's tires aren't properly inflated, so no missions." Right. I don't care.

Not only that, but the potential loss to CAP membership can be quite substantial. It's like a random 2bing of any member of the affected units. Is PAWG really going to risk losing so many members who can't make the adjustment, assuming that there is an adjustment to make? What if the squadron that a member WOULD transfer to ALSO gets shut down? That member is out of luck?

The entire thing is ridiculous. All I'm seeing is Wing leadership willing to sacrifice possibly hundreds of members in the wing in order to make themselves look better than they are. They screwed up, so they need to take responsibility for it and move on, not wipe out their own wing. The plan to make the wing safety compliant should NOT outweigh the overall objective of recruiting members, keeping members, and taking care of their members. If the member of PAWG can't trust their leadership to, you know, not shut down their squadron when a single member of it screws up, then where is the trust that any leadership requires?

Amputating an infected arm isn't fixing the problem, it's just eliminating it and leaving the victim sorely disabled...

YMMV

[lordmonar]

Strange that we have general call for house cleaning and adherence to regs and following orders....but when we have a lead who puts a little teething into that....we get a lot of teeth gnashing and knuckle biting.

Amputation of a diseased arm is sometimes the only way to save the victim.  It is not pretty and it is not the first course of treatment, but it is sometimes needed.

If they pull the charters of squadrons who fail to comply...then new squadrons can be formed at the same location.  Transfers of personnel are not automatic.

Again...this is the nuclear option....but let the guy in the driver's seat call the shots.  Armchair quarterbacking on the internet does not get the safety paperwork done.

[arajca]

I'll make a prediction - ONE unit gets revoked. 6 hours later, all other units are in 100% full compliance.

IMHO, most unit commanders think like many of us do here - threats will not be carried out due to the potential loss of members, so why bother complying. When the PAWG/CC follows through, they'll realize he IS SERIOUS and compliance will come quickly.

[RiverAux]

My last word on the matter is that were this to happen to my unit, I would probably not return to CAP.  Hold ME accountable for MY actions and I'm fine with that.  Hold me accountable for the failures of my subordinates.  But, don't hold me accountable for the failures of my superiors. 

[Hobbsh1]

Once again, does anyone really believe that this will happen???  Listen to me, there are only 3 things that need done, ONLINE SURVEY (all of about 20 mins), YEARLY SAFETY TOPIC SCHEDULE (sent to the Wing), UNIT COMMANDER SAFETY LETTER.  The online survey is in the regs as well as the schedule.  The only difference for our Wing is the fact that we have to forward this up the chain of command.  This was not something that was all of a sudden required this month.  The PA Wing has had these requirements in place for the last 9 months at least.

Do you really think that any Commander, Deputy Commander or Safety Officer really wants to be known as the sole individual that got a unit charter revoked??? Please, be real, I don't see any unit charter being revoked.  It's called SHOCK.... if any of the other Commanders of units had the same feeling as I did when I saw that email, they had those things completed within 48 to 72 hours.

[Hobbsh1]

Well, I just opened up an email from the PA Wing Commander and along with congratulating the Steelers (YEAH) he also said that we were 100% compliant, still have not heard of any charters being pulled.  Hopefully there weren't any pulled, but Congratulations to the units and members of the PA Wing :clap: :clap: