Revoking Squadron Charters

[Timbo]

Pennsylvania Wing has sent an email out, which I find very disturbing.  It reads;

To All concerned ;

At the Wing Executive Committee meeting yesterday the continuing state of probation that the Pennsylvania Wing is currently under makes the following drastic measure imminent.

If you will recall last April dozens of members were sent to the 000 squadron in order to come into compliance with OPSEC and th safety program regulations. National mandated we have 100% compliance and after many requests over a period of weeks there were still members who would not or could not comply with Wings request, so they were removed from active status so the rest of us could continue as 100% compliant.

We have a similar situation this year.

Some squadrons are compliant, now, some are working on the program, others have not begun.

We have been given until the end of January to complete the 3 part safety requirement.

On February 1st any squadron not in full compliance with the Safety program will have their charter revoked!

Yes...you heard me correctly.

Col. Lee can not risk slipping back into non-compliance , especially during this probation period.
Or we could face another Wing wide shut down.

The only way to avoid that is to revoke any charter who has not completed the 3 part safety program on time.

That way the Wing is only comprised of squadrons who are in compliance and therefor the Wing will be 100% within the regulation.

I sent a list of what reports are due and when, 3 different times this year. I asked you to all print it out and keep it handy where you do your CAP work.

Also on Friday I sent a reminder of the 3 items needed to be compliant with the safety regulation .That was before I got the word from Col Lee about the severe consequences he has planned for failure to comply.


Lt Col Metz also sent reminders. One also on Friday.

Its crunch time now. You have Two weeks left.

Those who have done it , thank you.

Those working on it...thank you also, we have 2 weeks to finish.

Everyone else...please let me know if there is a problem with you getting finished on time and the group 1 staff will do our best to help you.

Col Lee is serious and determined. 

My question.....can a Wing Commander shut down and revoke a charter (disband) a Squadron for something like this??  I was under the impression that only National may revoke a Charter (it has issued) and for very specific reasons. 

[Pylon]

I don't see why a Wing Commander wouldn't have the authority to shut down a unit under his or her command when they have failed to comply with direct and repeated orders.

[ThorntonOL]

 Paragraphs 8 and 9 below from  CAP REGULATION 20-3 (E) CHARTERS AND OTHER ORGANIZATION ACTIONS.

8. Deactivation of Units. Wing commanders are authorized to deactivate units for good cause. This is accomplished by submission of a properly prepared CAPF 27 with a concise statement on the reverse outlining the reasons for the action. (A copy must be forwarded IMMEDIATELY to the affected unit and, if applicable, its parent group.) On all deactivations, the CAPF 27 should be annotated to include the unit to which members of the deactivated unit will be assigned. In the absence of this information, National Headquarters will automatically assign all members to the wing headquarters at-large units (XX000). Wing commanders must ensure that there has been a proper accounting of the unit's funds as evidenced by a closing final report (CAPF 173, Financial Record for Units Below Wing Level) in accordance with CAPR 173-1, Financial Procedures and Accounting Report for Units Below Wing Level. Upon deactivation, the wing finance committee will either request from the unit or perform for themselves, a reconciliation of unit bank account(s). All funds remaining in the accounts) should be turned over to the wing. If the remaining funds are to be transferred to another unit, the wing finance committee must be informed of the unit receiving the funds and the amount of funds transferred. Additionally, all financial records should be forwarded to the wing headquarters. Also, any real property (land, buildings), aircraft, vehicles, equipment, and supplies must be properly inventoried and transferred in accordance with CAPR 67-1, CAP Supply Regulation; CAPR 87-1, Acquiring and Accounting for Real Estate and Facilities for CAP; and CAPR 100-2, Communications Equipment Management.

9. Reactivation of Former Units. Deactivated units may be reactivated at the discretion of the wing commander upon proper application and payment of the usual charter fee. Original name and charter number may be requested.

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This is what the knowledgebase offered.

[Hobbsh1]

I am a Commander in this Wing and we were given 1 year to get our asses in gear with the paperwork side of things and if the squadron did not comply.... well then they deserve to be revoked.  Do units in other Wings want to have to cover for us again???  I know that I would rather be the unit called on in Southwest PA instead of a unit from Ohio or WV.  The Safety requirements were completing an on-line safety survey by the 15th of Jan, a Unit Commander's Safety Policy, and list of topics for each months safety lecture with a topic for Oct Safety Down Day.  Wasn't really all that complicated.

[Tubacap]

^Concur

[JC004]

*yawn*  I just pretend that notices don't exist if they fail to send them to me for the web site... 

[Hobbsh1]

Just to let some folks in here know, this is the email that I received on the 14th of Jan from the Wing Administrator....
Good morning Group 1,

"As most of you know the time of year is upon us to send in all the fun paperwork that is due.  Right now, I am going to concentrate on the SAFETY forms.  Please see Decembers Wing Mail for a copy of the Safety Letter LtCol Barry Metz sent out regarding this matter.  To recap: 

1)       The annual Safety Survey should be completed and is available on E-Services under Safety.  Because this is done online, Wing does not need to receive of copy of this.

2)      The Unit Commander Safety Policy is required to be done by 15 Jan 09. The form need to be submitted to your Group Safety Officer who will then forward to Wing. 

3)      A Safety Schedule indicating a yearly schedule of dates and topics of the Unit Monthly Safety  Meeting and any related events, such as October Safety Down Day, must be submitted to Group Safety Officer and then forwarded to Wing. 

I do know that some of you have submitted the paperwork to the Group Safety Officer, however I have not received any Safety Paperwork as of yet.  Please make sure everything is submitted to the proper authorities in a timely manner.  Thank you for your cooperation!"

As I said before, if someone could not comply with just those three safety things then maybe a change of command should be held.  The on-line survey (CAPR 62-1 section 3 sub section c) took all of about 20 mins to complete, the monthly safety training is only 12 sessions (CAPR 62-1 section 3 sub section d) one of which has to be ORM (CAPR 62-1 section 3 subsection d sub-sub section 1) and from what I understand units are allowed to reuse the previous year's schedule.

I was told that the Group 1 Commander was hand holding our squadron.  Well, to those who think that, why don't ya'll come on down and visit our unit and see how he hand holds us.  NOBODY IS HAND HOLDING OUR UNIT!!!  We set up all our Ground Team training, we go through Group and then Wing to set up any training that we want a training mission number for.. it took up to 3 months one time to get a training mission number.  Group 1 Commander does NOT hold our hand or pull any strings for us.  If anything the man is harder on us since he is the one that started our unit.  Our GT members don't just get their SQTRs signed off just because they sat through a class, we have tests that we use and each member must pass that test before qualified members will sign off.

[RiverAux]

PA Wing is massively over-reacting by punishing individual members for the failures of their leaders.   The proper punishment for failure to comply could consist of any (or all) of the following actions:
1.  firing the unit commander
2.  demoting the unit commander
3.  grounding the unit from any flying and from any use of CAP vehicles.
4.  Suspension of approval for any planned activities for that unit that haven't taken place yet (FTXs, etc.). 

Revoking the charter for this is just plain dumb.   Moving the members who failed to comply with OPSEC to the 000 unit was a proper action last time, but this is a different story.

[ThorntonOL]

If he revokes the charter the member still have to transfer elsewhere so there really isn't much of a difference then what happened last year according to what i've read so far other than its the members who are also active that are affected.

[NC Hokie]

PA Wing is massively over-reacting by punishing individual members for the failures of their leaders.

I concur.  It's likely that the rank-and-file members of these squadrons don't even know what is going on.  Fire the responsible commanders and safety officers and make IMMEDIATE completion of the requirements a prerequisite for their replacements.  Anything more than that punishes the innocent.

[Hobbsh1]

PA Wing is massively over-reacting by punishing individual members for the failures of their leaders.

I concur.  It's likely that the rank-and-file members of these squadrons don't even know what is going on.  Fire the responsible commanders and safety officers and make IMMEDIATE completion of the requirements a prerequisite for their replacements.  Anything more than that punishes the innocent.

I have to disagree with you and RiverAux on this one.  Like I said before the units had one year to get up par and either didn't or waited untill the last minute to do it.  With the amount of hoop jumping we had to do last year every member should have known what was at stake.  My squadron mates were all on top of the safety issue throught out the year so I couldn't forget about it.

[Hobbsh1]

off topic..... why is my ip showing up on my posts?  Is there a setting I need to fix?.... back on topic

[RiverAux]

Like I said before the units had one year to get up par and either didn't or waited untill the last minute to do it. 

You're missing the point.... the UNIT didn't fail...the SQUADRON COMMANDER failed.  What could SM Snuffy Smith do about this requirement that they probably didn't even know about?  Why should the unit he has been a part of for 20 years get thrown in the trash heap because his Squadron Commander is lazy?

[ThorntonOL]

you can only see your own, as i looked at yours but it is labeled Logged but mine shows the IP.
So it's only on your account that your IP shows.

[NC Hokie]

I have to disagree with you and RiverAux on this one.  Like I said before the units had one year to get up par and either didn't or waited untill the last minute to do it.  With the amount of hoop jumping we had to do last year every member should have known what was at stake.  My squadron mates were all on top of the safety issue throught out the year so I couldn't forget about it.

I guess it's good for your squadron mates that you were responsive to their concerns.  Had you turned a deaf ear to them, how would they have ensured compliance?

[Hobbsh1]

I have to disagree with you and RiverAux on this one.  Like I said before the units had one year to get up par and either didn't or waited untill the last minute to do it.  With the amount of hoop jumping we had to do last year every member should have known what was at stake.  My squadron mates were all on top of the safety issue throught out the year so I couldn't forget about it.

I guess it's good for your squadron mates that you were responsive to their concerns.  Had you turned a deaf ear to them, how would they have ensured compliance?

NC Hokie, and RiverAux, I kinda see what you two are getting at.  The Commander definetly should be fired, and the excuse of "I didn't know" should not work since there are list servers that every member should be on to receive the emails.  That's how I know about what is needed for the Safety requirements and especially in Group 1 here in PA, the Commander sends out emails to all unit Commanders.

Off topic...Also, thanks ThorntonOL for your reply about the ip adress. Back on topic.

[FW]

Like I said before the units had one year to get up par and either didn't or waited until the last minute to do it. 

You're missing the point.... the UNIT didn't fail...the SQUADRON COMMANDER failed.  What could SM Snuffy Smith do about this requirement that they probably didn't even know about?  Why should the unit he has been a part of for 20 years get thrown in the trash heap because his Squadron Commander is lazy?

The 3 items the units must comply with are relatively simple and should have been completed within the first quarter of the fiscal year (by 31 December).    The PAWG commander has no choice in the matter as, the region/cc and CAP/CC are also very serious in having 100% compliance.   This is a unit failure. Where is the unit safety officer?  Where is the unit operations officer?  Where is the unit emergency services officer? Where is the unit cadet programs officer?  They all are responsible for getting this stuff done (every member is considered a "safety officer").  If the units are deactivated, members will probably become attached to their respective groups.  All money/property will be transferred to the group and, of course, the unit's commander will no longer be a commander.
It would be much simpler if all units just finished the requirements on time.  I find it amazing how people want to keep testing the system.  

[Hobbsh1]

^^ and those same members could probably request a transfer to the next closest unit, too.  I know some member already travel a great distance to get to meetings but I feel if you really wanted to continued to make a commitment then maybe the distance wouldn't be so bad.  I can tell you right now from WCS601 Commander's stand point, I would be more than willing to except members from anywhere, young, old, male, female, cadet, senior member, new member or someone with 20 or 25 or more years of experience.

The point I'm trying to make is that just because a unit's charter is revoked doesn't mean it's the end of the CAP road.

Grammar correction

[RiverAux]

Hmmm, yet only one Wing in the country has felt the need to threaten squadron deactivation for the failure of the squadron commander on this issue.  Seems to me that if the PA Wing commander is so poor a leader that this is the only way they can get compliance, then they need to be relieved right now.   Heck, I think he/she needs to be relieved for even suggesting such an (insert curseword combined with negative adjetive here) move. 

[Eclipse]

Hmmm, yet only one Wing in the country has felt the need to threaten squadron deactivation for the failure of the squadron commander on this issue.  Seems to me that if the PA Wing commander is so poor a leader that this is the only way they can get compliance, then they need to be relieved right now.   Heck, I think he/she needs to be relieved for even suggesting such an (insert curseword combined with negative adjective here) move. 

What happens when we ASSUME?

Just because other Wings haven't chosen to air their laundry publicly, doesn't mean there have not been direct conversations.