The Bling Effect

[topsecret]

How much of CAP's upper-level political machinations are ultimately rooted in "the bling effect"?  I refer to the general officer grades (restricted by position) and the grade of colonel (restricted by position, with the occasional rare exception).

What if CAP eliminated the general officer grades outright, and made the grade of colonel achievable by all members (say, Level V plus 5 yrs TIG as Lt Col)?

Nothing is going to make all politics go away in a large organization, but would this idea remove the incentive for some people to seek the billets presently authorize colonelcies and above?

[ColonelJack]

I think the same overall effect could be achieved by retaining the general officer grades for the top two jobs ('cause that's the way AF wants it, and those grades display the highest responsibility) but making colonel achievable.

I wouldn't make it that easy to earn an eagle, however.  Perhaps Level V with 15 to 20 years time in grade as Lieutenant Colonel is more realistic.  And former active-duty colonels coming in have to serve five years at the O-5 grade (and earn something above the Davis award) before they can be bumped to a bird.

It's a thought, anyway.

Jack

[ZigZag911]

I like it, might actually motivate me to finish Level V!

[gistek]

I think one problem is the If you're a ... for 1 year you automatically get promoted to  ...

I consider these unearned promotions and would amend the policy to require you earn the rank within a reasonable time of receiving it. If you don't, then when you leave the ... position you get dropped back to your earned rank. Carrying unearned rank without progress toward earning it could also be used to move someone out of a position if needed. (provided a progress schedule is available)

This won't affect many of the squadron commanders who serve a few years then go back to a lower duty position in their squadrons, since Capt to 1Lt isn't a big deal. But it will help weed out the bling addicted yahoos in higher levels and replace them with people actually willing to work for their grade.

[Major Carrales]

I think one problem is the If you're a ... for 1 year you automatically get promoted to  ...

I consider these unearned promotions and would amend the policy to require you earn the rank within a reasonable time of receiving it. If you don't, then when you leave the ... position you get dropped back to your earned rank. Carrying unearned rank without progress toward earning it could also be used to move someone out of a position if needed. (provided a progress schedule is available)

This won't affect many of the squadron commanders who serve a few years then go back to a lower duty position in their squadrons, since Capt to 1Lt isn't a big deal. But it will help weed out the bling addicted yahoos in higher levels and replace them with people actually willing to work for their grade.

These promotions were "earned" according to the criteria for those promotions.  See, CAP rank is telling...as are the ribbons one may choose to wear.

When I see a 2d Lt I see a person who has been in CAP at least six months, has had Level I and is in training.  A 1st Lt is someone who has been in CAP more than a year and has completed a TECH rating in a spec track.  If they are wearing a leadership ribbon I can see that they "came up through the ranks," no leadership ribbon (and later red service) tells me they are a special promotion...maybe a pilot.

A Captain with a leadership ribbon with a star and red service is someone, again, up from the ranks.  From this point I can look at the various badges.  A Cadet Programs badge with an encampment ribbon and prior service CAP Cadet ribbons shows me a CAP Officer dedicated to the Cadet Program.  If this person has a command service ribbon, then they may have commanded a cadet squadron.  Again, no ribbons shows me that this person is an aviator who came in on a special promotion.  Nothing wrong with that, however, with your logic...that person did not "earn" the rank.  I would say that they did because the training to become that level of pilot is a considerable skill set.

Majors are long term CAP people, again unless a special promotion, if I see a Loening ribbon I know I can go to this CAP Officer for insight into CAP Officer training.

CAP "bling," does have a meaning.  You can hope to change the criteria, and I am all for a more rigorous and relevant program.

[Flying Pig]

I know  alot of officers dont wear ribbons.  From coming from the enlisted military (not that I had many), I wear my ribbons pretty much all the time.

I am in a Sq that is in the process of building its ranks.  I think it looks sharp and invites new members to ask what they mean.  For the cadets, it shows that I have been where they are and speak from experience.  Plus....I like having Marine ribbons on an Air Force shirt!!!!

[bosshawk]

I like Coloneljack's suggestion.  I are one of those folks that he refers to: a real world Colonel, now a CAP Lt Col.

I have very little incentive to go through the CAP PD process, as things stand now.  I am a graduate of the Army Command and General Staff College and the Air War College, so the Region and National Staff Colleges hold very little incentive for me, besides the networking that would occur and that certainly has value.

On the subject of ribbons: I have more than one and rarely wear ribbons.  In fact, I rarely wear the aviator shirt and don't even own a blue shirt.  When I do wear the aviator shirt, my Command Pilot Wings and my ES badge are it for bling.  I am not even sure what CAP ribbons I am authorized.

Call me wierd: get in line and be aware that I rarely pay much attention to what people think of me.

[Major Carrales]

Call me wierd: get in line and be aware that I rarely pay much attention to what people think of me.

And see, Paul, this is something that is rarely understood.  I am sure your wearing of the CAP uniform is done properly no matter which one it is.

I have had my issue with golf shirts and the like, but (as I have said many times) I am a creature of growth.  I tolerate it despite my beliefs, in fact...after all that is been said about it, let it be worn.

However, people seem to be obsessed about this sort of thing.  I guess my stance will have to be...

"Look at others and correct anything wrong, but don't be jealous, scornful or bothered by some combo you don't wear nor own."

I don't own the White/greys nor CSU...but I can see that the hundreds, maybe thousands who own them have invested money in in.  As all the CAP GOLFERS. 

Thus, I support their action in buy an approved uniform and don;t think it should be changed.

Strange that those most complaining about uniform changes are advocates of MORE change, even if they are changes back.

[Chappie]

I like Coloneljack's suggestion.  I are one of those folks that he refers to: a real world Colonel, now a CAP Lt Col.

I have very little incentive to go through the CAP PD process, as things stand now.  I am a graduate of the Army Command and General Staff College and the Air War College, so the Region and National Staff Colleges hold very little incentive for me, besides the networking that would occur and that certainly has value.

On the subject of ribbons: I have more than one and rarely wear ribbons.  In fact, I rarely wear the aviator shirt and don't even own a blue shirt.  When I do wear the aviator shirt, my Command Pilot Wings and my ES badge are it for bling.  I am not even sure what CAP ribbons I am authorized.

Call me wierd: get in line and be aware that I rarely pay much attention to what people think of me.

Bosshawk...if you haven't been made aware it...according to CAPR 50-17, Attachment 2, your PME counts towards the CAP achievements.   The successful completion (graduation) from Army Command and General Staff College and the Air War College is the equivalent of National Staff College.  Check out the attachment and work with your PDO --- I am sure that your previous work is the equivalent of SLS/CLC and Region Staff Colleges.   Just a thought about what CAP ribbons you might be interested in wearing 

I only wear my ribbons on the Service Coat....and that is done as a way to hopefully inspire other Chaplains as well as Senior Members eeer officers to pursue their Professional Development (I hold a Master rating in  the Professional Development specialty track -- in addition to a Master rating in Cadet Programs and Chaplain specialty tracks).   I have always identified with the quote from the Treasure of Sierra Madre..."Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges."   But wear them as part of my CAP resume and as mentioned before...as a motivational tool to others.   Unfortunately, Chaplains are not required to pursue their PD in order to promote....they only need to breathe for a certain time limit ("time in grade").  So I feel if others see the GRW ribbon on my service coat, they will feel that "if a Chaplain can attain that award...so can I."

[bosshawk]

Chappie: I appreciate your bringing this to my attention.  I have been in CAP almost 15 years and I have briefly looked at the reg that you quote.  I know that I likely qualify for Level V, but can't really see why I should even bother, other than for a personal achievement.  My military service and my civilian career at CIA mean a lot for my personal satisfaction: far more than anything that I can achieve in CAP.  I love my work in the CD program and as a Mission Pilot and Check Pilot and believe in CAP's mission passionately.

That said, I also have served as a Sq commander and I strongly encourage all CAP folks to get these achievements.

I don't happen to engage in the Wing poliltics, so I will never likely go farther in the Wing or Region hierarchy than I have at the moment.  That is fine with me.  I am one of these wierd people who is satisfied with what I have achieved in life.

[Eagle400]

How much of CAP's upper-level political machinations are ultimately rooted in "the bling effect"?  I refer to the general officer grades (restricted by position) and the grade of colonel (restricted by position, with the occasional rare exception).

The "bling effect" is very much ingraned in the upper-level political machinations of CAP.  Remember, CAP had a National Commander who created an entire corporate uniform just to suit himself.  There is also debate that the uniform was created to slap the Air Force in the face, but the part about the uniform being created by the National Commander to suit himself is true.   

[Chappie]

Chappie: I appreciate your bringing this to my attention.  I have been in CAP almost 15 years and I have briefly looked at the reg that you quote.  I know that I likely qualify for Level V, but can't really see why I should even bother, other than for a personal achievement.  My military service and my civilian career at CIA mean a lot for my personal satisfaction: far more than anything that I can achieve in CAP.  I love my work in the CD program and as a Mission Pilot and Check Pilot and believe in CAP's mission passionately.

That said, I also have served as a Sq commander and I strongly encourage all CAP folks to get these achievements.

I don't happen to engage in the Wing poliltics, so I will never likely go farther in the Wing or Region hierarchy than I have at the moment.  That is fine with me.  I am one of these wierd people who is satisfied with what I have achieved in life.

Not a problem...I think I was editing my comments as you were posting yours    

Likewise, I too am very satisfied with what things I have achieved in my life.   I have only few of the CAP awards received hanging on my office wall....if I were to hang all the certificates/awards/etc. I could probably wall paper three rooms of the house      And I have endeavored to avoid most of the Wing/Region politics...but sometimes it comes with the position held  or relationships formed  

[Major Carrales]

How much of CAP's upper-level political machinations are ultimately rooted in "the bling effect"?  I refer to the general officer grades (restricted by position) and the grade of colonel (restricted by position, with the occasional rare exception).

The "bling effect" is very much ingraned in the upper-level political machinations of CAP.  Remember, CAP had a National Commander who created an entire corporate uniform just to suit himself.  There is also debate that the uniform was created to slap the Air Force in the face, but the part about the uniform being created by the National Commander to suit himself is true.   

Really, that would mean you could read his mind.

What proof have you to make such statements, "One Note Charlie."  I  hate to break this to you...again...but that issue is over.

[Eagle400]

Really, that would mean you could read his mind.

No, that would mean I have logical thinking ability.  The fact that no input was sought from the general membership shows that the general who-shall-not-be-named created the corporate service dress uniform for a personal reason. 

What proof have you to make such statements, "One Note Charlie."

See above.   

[Chappie]

Call me wierd: get in line and be aware that I rarely pay much attention to what people think of me.

And see, Paul, this is something that is rarely understood.  I am sure your wearing of the CAP uniform is done properly no matter which one it is.

I have had my issue with golf shirts and the like, but (as I have said many times) I am a creature of growth.  I tolerate it despite my beliefs, in fact...after all that is been said about it, let it be worn.

However, people seem to be obsessed about this sort of thing.  I guess my stance will have to be...

"Look at others and correct anything wrong, but don't be jealous, scornful or bothered by some combo you don't wear nor own."

I don't own the White/greys nor CSU...but I can see that the hundreds, maybe thousands who own them have invested money in in.  As all the CAP GOLFERS. 

Thus, I support their action in buy an approved uniform and don;t think it should be changed.

Strange that those most complaining about uniform changes are advocates of MORE change, even if they are changes back.

Major Carrales....the only uniform that I have not purchased or will wear is the Corporate Service Uniform (the TPU).  

On the other hand, in addition to the USAF-Style Uniforms (blue suit and bdus) I own and will wear -- depending on the situation -- the other uniforms (when I was on Wing Staff as a Director of a section...I would sometimes wear the Blazer Combo...at a SARX, the polo/gray --- which was uniform of the day...the white aviator/gray at functions where I knew that most of the attendees would be wearing that uniform).

[Major Carrales]

No, that would mean I have logical thinking ability.  The fact that no input was sought from the general membership shows that the general who-shall-not-be-named created the corporate service dress uniform for a personal reason. 

A man has a beard, Socrates is a man.  A Goat has a beard, Socrates is a GOAT?

Sorry, you logic is without standing.  I find it hard to believe that it was a personal reason.

He announced at the 2007 Texas Wing Conference that that uniform was created to address several issues that were being discussed in the membership, namely hard rank on service coats and blue shoulder marks.  He said that it had been discussed.

He also noted that the "Fashions by Tony" thing was bunk.

The true fact is that you hold such an agendistic view that you lumped this into the ANTI-PINEDA colored glasses view you can't seem to take off even when your objective has been made reality.

[Nick Critelli]

*1:  Thanks to the CapTalk owner, you have been afforded a forum by which to put forth your made comments and  argue your position in an attempt to persuade others to your point of view.

The time has come for you to properly identify yourself. 

[Major Carrales]

Call me wierd: get in line and be aware that I rarely pay much attention to what people think of me.

And see, Paul, this is something that is rarely understood.  I am sure your wearing of the CAP uniform is done properly no matter which one it is.

I have had my issue with golf shirts and the like, but (as I have said many times) I am a creature of growth.  I tolerate it despite my beliefs, in fact...after all that is been said about it, let it be worn.

However, people seem to be obsessed about this sort of thing.  I guess my stance will have to be...

"Look at others and correct anything wrong, but don't be jealous, scornful or bothered by some combo you don't wear nor own."

I don't own the White/greys nor CSU...but I can see that the hundreds, maybe thousands who own them have invested money in in.  As all the CAP GOLFERS. 

Thus, I support their action in buy an approved uniform and don;t think it should be changed.

Strange that those most complaining about uniform changes are advocates of MORE change, even if they are changes back.

Major Carrales....the only uniform that I have not purchased or will wear is the Corporate Service Uniform (the TPU).  

On the other hand, in addition to the USAF-Style Uniforms (blue suit and bdus) I own and will wear -- depending on the situation -- the other uniforms (when I was on Wing Staff as a Director of a section...I would sometimes wear the Blazer Combo...at a SARX, the polo/gray --- which was uniform of the day...the white aviator/gray at functions where I knew that most of the attendees would be wearing that uniform).

I forgot about the Blazer Combo, likely the oldest CAP Distinctive (a term we have not used since the CSU was created).  I do not own that suit.

[Eagle400]

I forgot about the Blazer Combo, likely the oldest CAP Distinctive (a term we have not used since the CSU was created).  I do not own that suit.

If I had my way, the Blazer Combo would be the only distinctive uniform for CAP.

The Blazer Combo is the only distinctive uniform for the Coast Guard Auxiliary, and they seem to be dealing with it just fine. 

[Ricochet13]

I wouldn't make it that easy to earn an eagle, however.  Perhaps Level V with 15 to 20 years time in grade as Lieutenant Colonel is more realistic. 

Jack

Humm . . . let's see . . . that would make me 75-80 years old.   I can do that!   Eat right, exercise, sensible lifestyle.  OK, you have my "permission".