How Soon Will We see This New Style?

[Bryce7454]

Hopefully this will lead to even more lax regulations for everyone.

How so?

CAP uses the same exact process as does the military.

If you want a religious exception to the reg....you request it through channels where it is give to the USAF for approval or denial.

Does not mean anything is lax.

Well it kind of looks bad if you ask me. The reason there are regulations like that is partly for uniformity and a professional look. Some of them a little insane if you ask me. Like the tattoo policy(which I believe is being changed and or looked at by many branches). But I think if people want to wear their religious items they should not join the military unless lax regulations will apply to everyone(within reason).   

[SarDragon]

It's not being lax. It's making an exception, in order to accomodate cultural differences. Rejecting an otherwise qualified person due to religious beliefs and customs is no longer a norm. I see this as an advance in cultural equality.

[Bryce7454]

It's not being lax. It's making an exception, in order to accomodate cultural differences. Rejecting an otherwise qualified person due to religious beliefs and customs is no longer a norm. I see this as an advance in cultural equality.

It is being lax to that specific person who does not have to follow the same regulations as everyone else. They have rejected plenty of qualified people in the past do to things meant to keep a professional look and neat appearance. I'm not saying we should not accommodate things like that, I'm saying if these "exceptions" are going to be made it should lead to more lax regulations for the rest of the men and women in the armed forces.

[Holding Pattern]

It's not being lax. It's making an exception, in order to accomodate cultural differences. Rejecting an otherwise qualified person due to religious beliefs and customs is no longer a norm. I see this as an advance in cultural equality.

It is being lax to that specific person who does not have to follow the same regulations as everyone else. They have rejected plenty of qualified people in the past do to things meant to keep a professional look and neat appearance. I'm not saying we should not accommodate things like that, I'm saying if these "exceptions" are going to be made it should lead to more lax regulations for the rest of the men and women in the armed forces.

Individuals with religious exemptions to regulations tend to be more serious about following the regulations and maintaining a professional appearance, since not doing so can be grounds for revocation of the exemption.

This is also the first time I've heard of regulation variance requests called "laxity."

In point of fact, the dentist in question that sparked this whole kerfluffle wasn't allowed a determination on his exemption until after he passed his exam boards.

[ironputts]

We had a Sikh cadet 6-7 years ago. He was a junior in high school. We allowed him to wear the standard cadet uniform and he wore the dastaar instead of the bdu or service caps. We sent the request up the chain requesting a waiver and it took 6-8 months. The answer was the cadet cannot wear the air force style cadet uniform and had to wear the blue fatigues. He had progressed quickly in all phases of the cadet program and was going to be the first sergeant. We met with the cadet and his parents about the decision. They made no comment and handed in his gear the next meeting. I would hope CAP regulations would eventually be modified to allow this to not happen in the future. It is good to see the military branches see the importance to adapt.

[PHall]

Hopefully this will lead to even more lax regulations for everyone.

How so?

CAP uses the same exact process as does the military.

If you want a religious exception to the reg....you request it through channels where it is give to the USAF for approval or denial.

Does not mean anything is lax.

Well it kind of looks bad if you ask me. The reason there are regulations like that is partly for uniformity and a professional look. Some of them a little insane if you ask me. Like the tattoo policy(which I believe is being changed and or looked at by many branches). But I think if people want to wear their religious items they should not join the military unless lax regulations will apply to everyone(within reason).

Nope, there are no pending changes to any of the services tattoo policies.

[Майор Хаткевич]

We had a Sikh cadet 6-7 years ago. He was a junior in high school. We allowed him to wear the standard cadet uniform and he wore the dastaar instead of the bdu or service caps. We sent the request up the chain requesting a waiver and it took 6-8 months. The answer was the cadet cannot wear the air force style cadet uniform and had to wear the blue fatigues. He had progressed quickly in all phases of the cadet program and was going to be the first sergeant. We met with the cadet and his parents about the decision. They made no comment and handed in his gear the next meeting. I would hope CAP regulations would eventually be modified to allow this to not happen in the future. It is good to see the military branches see the importance to adapt.

That's some bull right there.

[Storm Chaser]

We had a Sikh cadet 6-7 years ago. He was a junior in high school. We allowed him to wear the standard cadet uniform and he wore the dastaar instead of the bdu or service caps.

Units should not make exceptions to the regulations without clearing it through the appropriate channels first. There's a process to request waivers for a reason.

We sent the request up the chain requesting a waiver and it took 6-8 months. The answer was the cadet cannot wear the air force style cadet uniform and had to wear the blue fatigues. He had progressed quickly in all phases of the cadet program and was going to be the first sergeant. We met with the cadet and his parents about the decision. They made no comment and handed in his gear the next meeting.

The member was already wearing a different uniform in the form of his headgear, so the blue corporate BDUs shouldn't have been a deterrent to being a part of CAP. If the expectations were made clear from the beginning instead of circumventing the process, then perhaps the cadet wouldn't have quitted.

I would hope CAP regulations would eventually be modified to allow this to not happen in the future. It is good to see the military branches see the importance to adapt.

CAP doesn't have control over the AF-style uniform, so unless a provision is made in the AFI, things like this will continue to happen. If we all move to a single corporate uniform, then CAP would have more flexibility in making accommodations for our members.

[Eclipse]

We had a Sikh cadet 6-7 years ago. He was a junior in high school. We allowed him to wear the standard cadet uniform and he wore the dastaar instead of the bdu or service caps. We sent the request up the chain requesting a waiver and it took 6-8 months. The answer was the cadet cannot wear the air force style cadet uniform and had to wear the blue fatigues. He had progressed quickly in all phases of the cadet program and was going to be the first sergeant. We met with the cadet and his parents about the decision. They made no comment and handed in his gear the next meeting.

The "we" above didn't have the authority to permit that allowance.  You wrote a check NHQ had no interest in cashing, and
set up this situation.  Perhaps if the regs had been followed from day-1, he would have accepted the situation and never spoken of
it again, or maybe he would have joined and requested a waiver, wearing the proper uniform until and if a waiver was granted, but regardless, there would have been no sense of "changing the rules".

The assumption here is that this cadet never did anything outside of the squadron, since someone should have raised the issue before then.
This is what happens when people make allowances outside their authority.  I've seen this a number of times, with righteous indignation
on the tail end and no acceptance of responsibility for creating the situation to start with.

Also, how do you go from "zero" to C/MSgt in 8 months?

[vorteks]

Also, how do you go from "zero" to C/MSgt in 8 months?

JRROTC?

[Майор Хаткевич]

[Eclipse]

Also, how do you go from "zero" to C/MSgt in 8 months?

JRROTC?

Without doing the math I'd say it's possible, but if so the cadet would have already encountered the dress issues there, so wouldn't have been surprised.

[ProdigalJim]

I had hoped to wait to weigh in here until I could get to a real computer instead of my iPhone, but here we are...please forgive any typos...

The recent CAPM39-1 update (the CAP Uniform Manual) includes a religious accommodation section similar to that in AF Instruction 36-2903, Dress and Appearance of Air Force Personnel.

CAPM39-1's language on Religious Accommodation includes the following: "CAP does not have waiver authority of this type for USAF-style uniforms. Members requiring a waiver should consider wearing the Corporate-style uniform. Commanders who have identified a cadet with a potential requirement for a waiver should contact NHQ/DP for direction....The request letter should include a photo or description of the requested waiver, any comments from the unit commander, and an explanation of the religious need for the item. Parents must endorse memoranda submitted by cadets."

These waivers have nothing to do with "laxity." As the official auxiliary of the United States Air Force, the Civil Air Patrol honors the spirit of inclusiveness and religious tolerance, in policy and in practice. I have personal experience with this process as a commander and I can assure you, having successfully won the waiver, there was a rigorous process followed and in the end everyone was served well.

Last fall a young woman who is an observant Muslim joined our squadron with the intention of seeking an eventual USAF career. As an expression of her religious faith, she sought permission to wear a hijab – a modest traditional headscarf – with her cadet uniform. Although CAP Corporate uniforms are available for those unable or unwilling to meet USAF appearance and grooming standards, a key component of the cadet program is the proper wear of the USAF-style uniform. I believed then and believe now that asking this cadet to participate in a corporate uniform would single her out and prevent her from participating fully in cadet life.

Based on NHQ's advice, we wrote up the package and sent it through channels. We did it in two parts: first was a corporate uniform waiver, because we felt that this would get done more quickly than the USAF waiver, and then a second longer-term request for this cadet to wear the AF-style uniform.

Commanders at all levels concurred that wearing the uniform like her peers was the best way to honor the commitment both the CAP and the USAF have made to freedom of religious expression and equal opportunities for all cadets. It went from Squadron to Group to Wing to Region then NHQ, and then through USAF channels after that. The Wing Chaplain had to interview the family to attest that this was requested out of sincerely held belief.

The hijab this cadet intends to wear as a uniform item will not affect operational effectiveness, does not have a negative safety impact and is neat and conservative (i.e., discreet, tidy, and not dissonant or showy in style, size, design, brightness, or color), as required per CAPM39-1. She wears hijab as a committed part of her faith tradition and practice. I'm fully supportive of that, as are the regs and as is our Command.

The CAPM39-1 itself counsels that CAP supports the right of free exercise of religion because "it directly relates to our Core Values and the ability to maintain an effective team." Our Nondiscrimination Policy, found in CAPR 36-1, holds explicitly that "It is Civil Air Patrol policy that no member shall be excluded from participation in, denied the benefits of, or subjected to discrimination in any CAP program or activity on the basis of race, sex, age, color, religion, national origin, or disability (formerly handicap)."

The waiver process has been in place throughout the U.S. military since January of 2014, when the Department of Defense issued an instruction directing the services to honor religious accommodation requests when those requests reflect "sincerely held religious belief" and do not degrade safety. That directive followed congressional direction contained in the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act.

Bottom line: there's a process, both ours and the AF's, it's grounded in regs and law and if you pay attention to detail and follow the steps it can get done. Ours took three months.

[Garibaldi]

I had hoped to wait to weigh in here until I could get to a real computer instead of my iPhone, but here we are...please forgive any typos...

The recent CAPM39-1 update (the CAP Uniform Manual) includes a religious accommodation section similar to that in AF Instruction 36-2903, Dress and Appearance of Air Force Personnel.

CAPM39-1's language on Religious Accommodation includes the following: "CAP does not have waiver authority of this type for USAF-style uniforms. Members requiring a waiver should consider wearing the Corporate-style uniform. Commanders who have identified a cadet with a potential requirement for a waiver should contact NHQ/DP for direction....The request letter should include a photo or description of the requested waiver, any comments from the unit commander, and an explanation of the religious need for the item. Parents must endorse memoranda submitted by cadets."

These waivers have nothing to do with "laxity." As the official auxiliary of the United States Air Force, the Civil Air Patrol honors the spirit of inclusiveness and religious tolerance, in policy and in practice. I have personal experience with this process as a commander and I can assure you, having successfully won the waiver, there was a rigorous process followed and in the end everyone was served well.

Last fall a young woman who is an observant Muslim joined our squadron with the intention of seeking an eventual USAF career. As an expression of her religious faith, she sought permission to wear a hijab – a modest traditional headscarf – with her cadet uniform. Although CAP Corporate uniforms are available for those unable or unwilling to meet USAF appearance and grooming standards, a key component of the cadet program is the proper wear of the USAF-style uniform. I believed then and believe now that asking this cadet to participate in a corporate uniform would single her out and prevent her from participating fully in cadet life.

Based on NHQ's advice, we wrote up the package and sent it through channels. We did it in two parts: first was a corporate uniform waiver, because we felt that this would get done more quickly than the USAF waiver, and then a second longer-term request for this cadet to wear the AF-style uniform.

Commanders at all levels concurred that wearing the uniform like her peers was the best way to honor the commitment both the CAP and the USAF have made to freedom of religious expression and equal opportunities for all cadets. It went from Squadron to Group to Wing to Region then NHQ, and then through USAF channels after that. The Wing Chaplain had to interview the family to attest that this was requested out of sincerely held belief.

The hijab this cadet intends to wear as a uniform item will not affect operational effectiveness, does not have a negative safety impact and is neat and conservative (i.e., discreet, tidy, and not dissonant or showy in style, size, design, brightness, or color), as required per CAPM39-1. She wears hijab as a committed part of her faith tradition and practice. I'm fully supportive of that, as are the regs and as is our Command.

The CAPM39-1 itself counsels that CAP supports the right of free exercise of religion because "it directly relates to our Core Values and the ability to maintain an effective team." Our Nondiscrimination Policy, found in CAPR 36-1, holds explicitly that "It is Civil Air Patrol policy that no member shall be excluded from participation in, denied the benefits of, or subjected to discrimination in any CAP program or activity on the basis of race, sex, age, color, religion, national origin, or disability (formerly handicap)."

The waiver process has been in place throughout the U.S. military since January of 2014, when the Department of Defense issued an instruction directing the services to honor religious accommodation requests when those requests reflect "sincerely held religious belief" and do not degrade safety. That directive followed congressional direction contained in the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act.

Bottom line: there's a process, both ours and the AF's, it's grounded in regs and law and if you pay attention to detail and follow the steps it can get done. Ours took three months.

Sounds like what we did for our Muslim cadet.

[Storm Chaser]

We want to accommodate all of our members, but we need to make sure we do so while following the applicable guidelines and procedures.

[NIN]

Are you guys kidding ?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[ProdigalJim]

CAP doesn't have control over the AF-style uniform, so unless a provision is made in the AFI, things like this will continue to happen. If we all move to a single corporate uniform, then CAP would have more flexibility in making accommodations for our members.

That's true, but the previous post said this was 6-7 years ago. Fortunately, after the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act, the AFI *was* modified (in 2014) to include both religious accommodation language AND a waiver process for getting religious uniform accommodations approved through channels.

AFI 36-2903's language on Religious Accommodation includes:

"Commanders must grant requests for accommodation of religious practices unless they determine and articulate that a compelling (i.e., especially important) governmental (not just Air Force) interest takes precedence over the requested accommodation." (Para. 9.12.1)

"Recommendations for disapproval should be unusual unless for safety or when precluded by a compelling (i.e., especially important) governmental (not just Air Force) interest that takes precedence over the requested accommodation. Requests should normally be recommended for approval unless approval would have an adverse impact on military readiness, unit cohesion, standards, or discipline." (Para. 9.12.3.3).

"Religious head covering waiver requests for outdoor wear and wear of items not concealed under headgear, or those impacting grooming standards and/or personal appearance (e.g., hair length and style, tattoos, body art) require endorsement from the unit commander, installation chaplain, appropriate installation commander, and the MAJCOM, FOA, or DRU A1." (Para. 9.12.5)

So the flow goes like this: CAPM 39-1 waiver procedure > (Sq>Gp>Wg Chaplain>Wg>Reg>NHQ) then, if an AF-style uniform waiver is requested, the package continues through AF channels shepherded by CAP-USAF.

I'm actually quite proud that CAP and the USAF did the right thing in this instance. It's becoming "business-as-usual" which can only make us better without forcing us to go "all-Corporate."

[Bryce7454]

Hopefully this will lead to even more lax regulations for everyone.

How so?

CAP uses the same exact process as does the military.

If you want a religious exception to the reg....you request it through channels where it is give to the USAF for approval or denial.

Does not mean anything is lax.

Well it kind of looks bad if you ask me. The reason there are regulations like that is partly for uniformity and a professional look. Some of them a little insane if you ask me. Like the tattoo policy(which I believe is being changed and or looked at by many branches). But I think if people want to wear their religious items they should not join the military unless lax regulations will apply to everyone(within reason).

Nope, there are no pending changes to any of the services tattoo policies.

The navy.

[Storm Chaser]

CAP doesn't have control over the AF-style uniform, so unless a provision is made in the AFI, things like this will continue to happen. If we all move to a single corporate uniform, then CAP would have more flexibility in making accommodations for our members.

That's true, but the previous post said this was 6-7 years ago. Fortunately, after the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act, the AFI *was* modified (in 2014) to include both religious accommodation language AND a waiver process for getting religious uniform accommodations approved through channels.

AFI 36-2903's language on Religious Accommodation include...

The AFI I was referring to is AFI 10-2701, which governs our uniform and the process in which CAP can request changes, which the Air Force must approve before they can be implemented.

[lordmonar]

Which goes back to old old old argument.

What damages will CAP incur if it does away with the USAF style uniform?

The status quo is the status quo because it is a compromise between two competing ideas.

On the one side....we should all be in USAF style uniforms.....which excludes the fat and fuzzies and those who don't want to be "in the military".
On the other side is the "we should all be in corporates"....which would bring the wrath of a good sized portion of the members who joined to be part of the USAF.

CAP is what it is.   Sure we can change it.   But like most everything in a volunteer organizations baby steps and the long haul is the way to make those changes.