Non-Doctor & Non-Nurse Medical Personnel

[supertigerCH]

Just wondering...


How about creating an emblem/badge for our CAP members who are well trained in a medical profession... but who are not Medical Doctors, Nurses, or EMT-Paramedics?

Some wonderful badges have already been created for those members.

CAP could certainly benefit from people such as Certified Nurse's Assistants (CNAs), Medical Assistants, and other types of specialists who work in today's hospitals and clinics.

Although they are not as highly trained as a doctor or nurse... their work is still very important in making modern medical care possible.  It seems appropriate... that we could find a way to recognize their specialized skills within the medical profession as well.


Perhaps a badge for Certified Nurse Assistants and other medical specialists... could be exactly like the nurse badge... but instead of the letter "N" in the circle at the top... it could just have a medical cross (the type of crosses we see, usually red in color... on hospitals, or on an ambulance).  On the badge, it would not have to be red though.  I'm just describing the type of cross.

Or perhaps another design would be appropriate.  Anyone have any ideas?


CAP's active duty counterpart, the U.S. Air Force has many types of medical specialists who are not doctors or nurses... yet their skills are still valuable to the Air Force.  Of course, as a civilian auxiliary, CAP would never have as many types of medical specialists as we find in the active & reserve Air Force.  Recognition of people who fall into this category would still seem to be appropriate, though.

I myself have no connection to the medical field, but I have always had great respect for the work that they do... a for what they can contribute to CAP.  This is just something that has come to my mind every so often. 


What are everyone's thoughts?  No matter what everyone's opinion is... I think we can all agree that these people bring a very important skill set & diversity of talent to CAP units.


Thoughts?  Responses?  Additional ideas?   Please share!

[Flying Pig]

CAP doesn't have a medical program in anyway shape or form.  Health Officer specialty track doesn't even do anything.  The fact that we even recognize Doctors Nurses, EMTs and paramedics can be misleading and is mostly for recruiting efforts. Not much reason to develope an entire array of badges for a specialty CAP doesn't even remotely dabble in.   I've been a cop for 17 yrs. how about a special pin for me and maybe a fireman pin to?   Seriously...... It's about that relevant.

[arajca]

Many moons ago, when a HSO specialty track was being discussed, this topic came up. What skills would a non-MD, non-Nurse, non-EMT bring that would be used in CAP given the restrictions CAP has on medical service?

In the Air Force, these Health Service personnel actually have duties related to their certifications.

Let's take this notion a bit further - what about fire fighters and law enforcement personnel? The AF has these as well, but CAP does not provide for badges for those personnel. This discussion can continue ad nauseum.

[supertigerCH]

Hi arajca & Flying Pig,


Thanks for the input.  I do realize CAP does not have its own medical program, and didn't mean to suggest that it did.  You are both correct in saying that this is more of a recruiting effort (and a way of recognizing the skills these people indirectly bring into a CAP unit... just by being around)... than it is to show an actual skill that is used during CAP missions.

What should this mean then... that CAP should take these badges away from all who are wearing them?  I suppose in principle that would be okay, if that's what was decided (for the reasons you have both shared).


As far as a badge for you as a police officer (or for those who are fire fighters)... if for any reason CAP decided to created them, you wouldn't get a complaint, from me anyway.  As you have pointed out though, this again doesn't tie into the overall mission of CAP.

My posting of this thread was more along the lines of that... since CAP has already (for whatever reason) decided to make badges for medical personnel... would recognizing medical specialists be appropriate along side of recognizing the medical professionals that CAP / National HQ has already decided to recognize?

Perhaps any such badge would not have to be as elaborate as I first suggested.  Instead of looking similar to the doctor & nurse badge... it might be more appropriate to have a "medical specialist" badge look like the EMT/Paramedic badge... only instead of having the 6 armed blue cross in the center, it could have a regular 4 armed blue medical cross.


Thanks for sharing your thoughts, guys... and for helping to get this thread started.

Anyone else have more ideas about this topic?


Please join in!!

[GroundHawg]

I always thought that CAP should have basic, senior, and master levels for the Nurse badges indicating CNA, LPN, and RN similar to what was done with the EMT badge. If we are going to offer a badge for Nurses in the HSO program as a recruiting incentive then it couldnt hurt to include a few more levels of nursing.

[Eclipse]

since CAP has already (for whatever reason) decided to make badges for medical personnel... would recognizing medical specialists be appropriate along side of recognizing the medical professionals that CAP / National HQ has already decided to recognize?

No, unless you're suggesting that every job that any member has outside of CAP should also have a badge.

[EMT-83]

You could get rid of the EMT badge today and not hurt my feelings.

[supertigerCH]

GroundHawg,


That is a great idea... and a way of getting to the spirit of my question -- without CAP having to design a new badge.

You're a genius!  That would be a effective way of doing it when it comes to Certified Nurse Assistants.  Much like what was done with the EMT/Paramedic badge.



hi EMT-83,

i'm right with you there.  i don't think i would blink an eye if they got rid of the GT badge tomorrow. 

just throwing out the idea for the sake of discussion, that's all...

[ProdigalJim]

I think Supertiger you're missing the point some of us are trying to make: CAP badges should reflect CAP jobs/experience/training. If we had a Health Services program that did something within CAP (say, gave flight physicals or supervised cadets moving out of restricted physical categories into unrestricted categories or practiced up to their licensed level during ES missions) I think you'd have a point.

The Health Services program as it stands does very, very little and has no operational role.

Legal officers wear the legal officer bling when they do law for CAP. I'll betcha there are a lot of lawyers who are CAP members who don't do anything legal within the organization, and like it that way...and don't wear the badge.

I don't think anyone thought you were suggesting we had a more active Health Services program...you never said that. Just that badges ought to reflect the CAP utility of the wearer. While I'd love to consult with a certified nursing assistant during an encampment, CAP doesn't let anyone do anything other than first aid.

This gets especially difficult for paraprofessionals who often practice under the auspices or license of another -- paramedics doing ALS under the medical license of a County medical director, or a Physicians Assistant signing orders under a supervising doctor. In CAP, if you render medical care while trying to practice at that level there is no medical director and no supervising physician, which means you're practicing medicine without a license and CAP is legally exposed. That's why they've limited the Health Services program to the minimal level that it is today...and with a minimal program, there's probably no need to recognize paraprofessionals who can't practice in CAP anyway.

[Eclipse]

I think Supertiger you're missing the point some of us are trying to make: CAP badges should reflect CAP jobs/experience/training.

So simple, so clear, and yet...

[Eclipse]

i'm right with you there.  i don't think i would blink an eye if they got rid of the GT badge tomorrow. 

You suggest creating a badge(s) for skills completely irrelevant to CAP, yet would have no issue losing
the only CAP MOS-style badge most CAP members have a reasonable possibility of attaining?

[Capt Thompson]

Excuse the ignorance in this subject, but would a CNA have enough knowledge to qualify as a paramedic, or is that different training altogether? If supertiger is a CNA looking for bling, could he possibly qualify as a medic and be part of a ground team?

[arajca]

A CNA would need to complete Paramedic training regardless of their knowledge to be eligible for the Paramedic badge.

[Capt Thompson]

So they may have the knowledge, but not the certification. Makes sense, thanks.

[EMT-83]

I actually wear my Master Ground Team badge, as it has significance to CAP. EMT badge? Not so much.

[Eclipse]

could he possibly qualify as a medic

In CAP?  No such animal.

and be part of a ground team?

Yes, just like anyone else.

[supertigerCH]

"CAP badges should reflect CAP jobs/experience/training."

Agree 100%

For whatever the reasons... CAP has decided to make medical badges, and to allow for their wear.  I'm not completely sure as to all the reasons for it, but it happened... and in that light wondered if other medical specialties might also be covered.

Perhaps the medical badges are a series of badges that CAP should do away with.  That's certainly open to discussion... and is kind of what the purpose of this thread was intended to be.  To discuss all thoughts about it... not to champion the creation and wearing of more Civil Air Patrol badges.

Forgive me if I did a poor job at laying out and explaining what the thread was for.  If I didn't, sorry... "my bad".



As far as not caring too much if the GT badge were to disappear tomorrow... to be honest I wouldn't have a problem if CAP members wore no badges or uniforms at all.

Either way it doesn't make a difference regarding the missions performed... which I think we'd all agree comes down to the quality of the personnel.  I'm not hostile towards badges that are worn for a good reason.  Does the GT badge have more significance to CAP and its mission than the medical badges do?  Absolutely.

[LSThiker]

For whatever the reasons... CAP has decided to make medical badges, and to allow for their wear.  I'm not completely sure as to all the reasons for it, but it happened... and in that light wondered if other medical specialties might also be covered.

The medical badge was created in the late 1940s after the Army "asked" CAP to stop wearing the Army Medical Branch insignia.  The Medical Officer Badge actually predates in its original form most CAP badges, if not all of them.  Obviously the CAP wings came before the Medical Officer Badge, but they have undergone a number of redesigns to meet what we see today.  At the time and for some time after, physicians were allowed to practice medicine in CAP.  The wear of the Medical Officer and subsequent creation of the Nurse Officer badge was out of tradition after those duties were slowly eroded over time.

You will find that mention of the Health Services Program causes a lot of heartburn on these forums.  It is usually best to steer clear of it and ask the question on other CAP forums/webpages.

While the elimination of the Medical Officer & Nurse Officer is an option, but as of right now they are here so I will not argue that road.  If CAP decides to not eliminate those badges, then a general HSO badge of equal "precedence" should be created.  That is, it should resemble the Medical Officer and the Nurse Officer badge, which I would propose the letter "H" instead of the tri-prop or "N" in the top of the staff.  As it stands now, CAP is unintentionally sending a message that CAP respects the training of Doctors, Nurses, and EMTs but does not recognize the training of other doctoral healthcare providers (DPT, DDS, PhD, AuD, OD, etc) and non-doctoral healthcare providers (PA-C, PA(ASCP), MLS, RD, MPT, etc).  This is especially true with the recent change to the EMT badge to recognize the different levels of EMTs. 

Like everyone regarding uniforms, YMMV as everyone has an opinion on them and can spending pages upon pages upon pages arguing about pointless details.

Of course, some HSOs take offense to this while others do not.  The same was true prior to the creation of the AC Wings.  Some mission scanners took offense, while others did not.  I am sure during the creation of the GT Badge, it was probably the same way.         

[DoubleSecret]

This gets especially difficult for paraprofessionals who often practice under the auspices or license of another -- paramedics doing ALS under the medical license of a County medical director, or a Physicians Assistant signing orders under a supervising doctor. In CAP, if you render medical care while trying to practice at that level there is no medical director and no supervising physician, which means you're practicing medicine without a license and CAP is legally exposed. That's why they've limited the Health Services program to the minimal level that it is today...and with a minimal program, there's probably no need to recognize paraprofessionals who can't practice in CAP anyway.

There's definitely no need to recognize former paraprofessional medics, who can't practice their former field in or out of CAP.  CAP allows previously certified EMTs to wear the EMT badge regardless of how out-of-date we are, but the CPR patch must only be worn by currently certified personnel.   Because, after all, we want to protect the integrity of that CPR patch.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

In today's world of PC everyone is a winner so everyone is ENTITLED to Badges, Ribbons, Awards, and Honors.  So why not the CAP as well?  Why not create as many "distinctive" badges as possible so everyone can at least have one?

Next weeks topic will be: If everyone is a winner and everyone is special then who is left for row 2?