Can 2 (or more) people get credit for recruiting one person?

[LSThiker]

Is there a regulation that states that? Because, apparently, if it's not spelled out in a regulation, it must NOT be true.

Hmm interesting.

That is why there is such a thing called command decisions.  While I agree that EMTs doing their job should not qualify, but to write it in the reg is unnecessary.

I respectfully disagree. I think one of the reasons we have so many issues in CAP is because too many regs are open to interpretation.

Yup. Open to interpretation. Hence why, if this is the case, it should be based on a regulation.  So where is the cite again?  The issue of giving credit to one or more people is a command decision as the final authority to award the ribbon is the commander.

[Eclipse]

Now on the comment about ribbon trolling.......FOUL!  10 Yard Penalty!   We do a lot of things in CAP as a team!   Often multiple people may be involved in the process of recruiting a new member.   I know in my squadron a perspective member gets the sales pitch from several members during their three meeting visits.   So who get's the credit?   I can certainly see where a member may get bent when he/she spends a significant amount of time recruiting a perspective member and the credit is solely given to another member of the team!  So it is a legitimate question and is not to be disparaged.

Multiple people cannot be the "most responsible".

If you can somehow make that math work for you in giving the ribbon to more then one person, there you go.

Otherwise. 

Done.

[NIN]

I found the recruiting report (accidentally... Grrr)

The joke is clearly on me about recruiting:

ETA: looks like someplace in 2005 I just sort of said "meh, I'll let others take credit for my work.."
ETA (again): Crap. 4 more and I get a set of steak knives and a silver clasp.  Need to fix that!

[lordmonar]

Now on the comment about ribbon trolling.......FOUL!  10 Yard Penalty!   We do a lot of things in CAP as a team!   Often multiple people may be involved in the process of recruiting a new member.   I know in my squadron a perspective member gets the sales pitch from several members during their three meeting visits.   So who get's the credit?   I can certainly see where a member may get bent when he/she spends a significant amount of time recruiting a perspective member and the credit is solely given to another member of the team!  So it is a legitimate question and is not to be disparaged.

Multiple people cannot be the "most responsible".

If you can somehow make that math work for you in giving the ribbon to more then one person, there you go.

Otherwise. 

Done.

Where does it say in 39-3 that you have to be "the most responsible" ...it just says to recruit.   

And again where does it say you can't share credit...either as whole numbers or partial credits?

[Eclipse]

Where does it say you can?

[lordmonar]

Where does it say you can?

So there is our quandary.

Neither of us can cite the regulations chapter and verse.....ergo the answer is "ask your commander".

[Storm Chaser]

Where does it say you can?

So there is our quandary.

Neither of us can cite the regulations chapter and verse.....ergo the answer is "ask your commander".

This question shouldn't be left up to the individual unit commander. Clarification should come from above and should be requested through the chain of command.

[lordmonar]

Where does it say you can?

So there is our quandary.

Neither of us can cite the regulations chapter and verse.....ergo the answer is "ask your commander".

This question shouldn't be left up to the individual unit commander. Clarification should come from above and should be requested through the chain of command.

To a point.....I agree.....39-3 is not super super clear about it.   Anyone want to write that reg?   What would it look like?  Who makes the call when we legitimately have two or more people involved in the recruiting process?  Is the new member the one who gets to make the call?  Is the application form the only source document?

What about recruiting service?  Where you as part of a booth or display are recruiting?  How do we recognize our members who do that sort of work?

[SunDog]

Did anyone here get credit for recruiting themselves? Maybe you gave yourself a good talking to? Worked hard to sell yourself on the organization, and urge yourself to fill out that form after a few meetings?  So that's good for one, right? Put your own name on the form? If you droppped out after a while, then mooched back after 18 months or so, that could be two?  Maybe only 1.5 though, if your CC called and pitched you to come back?

[lordmonar]

Did anyone here get credit for recruiting themselves? Maybe you gave yourself a good talking to? Worked hard to sell yourself on the organization, and urge yourself to fill out that form after a few meetings?  So that's good for one, right? Put your own name on the form? If you droppped out after a while, then mooched back after 18 months or so, that could be two?  Maybe only 1.5 though, if your CC called and pitched you to come back?

And?

Your point?

[SunDog]

Point-less; only gentle satire, pleasant banter, intended. Perhaps we influence, but not recruit? Though I heard NY Wing has a press gang operating up-state. . .

[Walkman]

I submitted this question to the KB:

Two related questions about making sure proper credit is given for the recruiting ribbon (both cadet & SM).

1) If more than one person is truly responsbile for bringing in a recruit, can each person receive credit for that single recruit. Example: two brothers are cadets and regularly work with a mutual friend who decides to join. The membership application form only has space for one CAPID, but in this situation, both brothers could reasonably recieve credit for the recruit. Another possible scenario is 3 cadets working a recruiting event and the new recruit spends a roughly equal time with the group and decides to join from that interaction.

2) Is there a mechanism to track recruiting other than the membership application and the e-services data? A new commander may not notice a the (optional) recruiting field left blank on the form and a new recruit most likely will not know how to fill that in or know the CAPID. If a person truly has done the work to recruit, but the data was missing from the application, can they still receive credit?

Here is the answer I received:

The recruiter ribbon is awarded by the unit commander and as such can make a determination on the recruiting credit for each member in your examples.

For your tracking mechanism, I've forwarded the question to the POC:

Personnel and Member Actions
sparker@capnhq.gov
To contact Member Actions call Toll free at 877-227-9142 Ext 212 or Ext 207
Commercial 334 953-7748 Ext 212 or Ext 207

I read that as the CC has the ability to award credit for the ribbon to multiple people and that there is no other way currently at NHQ to track recruits.

[Walkman]

I just got another answer from the KB:

Response Via Email(KB Manager) - 04/17/2014 07:18 AM
In response to your second question.

Recruiting credit is not tied to the membership application or eServices.  Units may track recruiting credit locally for the purpose of awarding the Recruiter Ribbon.

[Eclipse]

I just got another answer from the KB:

Response Via Email(KB Manager) - 04/17/2014 07:18 AM
In response to your second question.

Recruiting credit is not tied to the membership application or eServices.  Units may track recruiting credit locally for the purpose of awarding the Recruiter Ribbon.

Translation:  "Leadership requires making a decision which, while providing consistency across the organization, might make people sad.
Rather then lead, we will disavow."

There should be no "local discretion" about this kind of stuff, because it always leads to someone feeling cheated.

[NIN]

There should be no "local discretion" about this kind of stuff, because it always leads to someone feeling cheated.

Or not.

"Sir, I was at the recruiting event. I recruited 3 of the cadets from that"

"Funny, Jeeves, the OIC said you were over at the food table for 45 of the 60 minutes stuffing hotdogs in your face..."

[LSThiker]

I just got another answer from the KB:

Response Via Email(KB Manager) - 04/17/2014 07:18 AM
In response to your second question.

Recruiting credit is not tied to the membership application or eServices.  Units may track recruiting credit locally for the purpose of awarding the Recruiter Ribbon.

Thanks. So as I was saying the CAPF15 and eServices are for recruiting and not the award criteria. The decision to award the credit for the ribbon is up to the commander.

And now for the required CAP Knowledge Base is not correct argument.  Which I will not be getting into so have fun with that

[lordmonar]

I just got another answer from the KB:

Response Via Email(KB Manager) - 04/17/2014 07:18 AM
In response to your second question.

Recruiting credit is not tied to the membership application or eServices.  Units may track recruiting credit locally for the purpose of awarding the Recruiter Ribbon.

Translation:  "Leadership requires making a decision which, while providing consistency across the organization, might make people sad.
Rather then lead, we will disavow."

There should be no "local discretion" about this kind of stuff, because it always leads to someone feeling cheated.

Then you have to write guidelines that meet every situation.   What would that reg look like?

[Eclipse]

There should be no "local discretion" about this kind of stuff, because it always leads to someone feeling cheated.
Then you have to write guidelines that meet every situation.   What would that reg look like?

It's not "every situation" it's "the situation".

Short sentences clear wording, no ambiguity.

"Only one person may receive credit for recruiting a new member, and this is tracked via the CAPID entered on the member's application."

[lordmonar]

That is one way of doing it.

But now you are going to have people butt hurt because they helped recruit that new person.
Also who makes the determination of who's name goes on the form?   Is it just up to the new person?   Maybe they don't care who actually did all the recruiting and they put their friend's name on the application?

The point being.....the purpose of the recruiting ribbon is two fold.......to encourage members to recruit and to recognize those who do recruit.

If our people team up to accomplish that recruiting.....let's recognize them.

[Storm Chaser]

Maybe we should seek clarification through the CAP KB.