ABUs

[RADIOMAN015]

I would hope that CAP members would be very forthcoming as to who they are NOT (military) and who they are (CAP civilian volunteers).  Unfortunately, I know this isn't adhered to by all  .
RM     

    Radioman, perhaps you are not aware of the history of the CAP that I belong to. At one time, CAP was a combat arm of the Army Air Corps, yes we flew combat missions and dropped live ordinance and killed members of a foreign military force. That my friend sounds pretty close to a military force. Now, that was a few years in our history but it is a very real part of history. CAP may not do combat operations now, but we have never really moved to far from being a military asset. Yes, we are considered to be civilians, but that doesn't mean that we are not part of the U.S. Air Force family. I know that probably disturbs you greatly, since you seem to go to great lengths to chase people down so that no one walks past you and somehow forms the wrong impression. Well, chances are you won't even wear the Air Force style uniforms. Perhaps the boy scouts or perhaps some SAR only organization would work great for you. I think the U.S. Ranger Corps needs people.
 

I am very much aware of CAP's history :angel: Just about all of CAP's more important missions can be done wearing the Golf Shirt uniform or for that matter Blue BDU's or the Blue flight/utility uniform.  The key issue though is the quality of the CAP corporate utility uniforms when comparing with the military standards for millitary type uniforms.  Members may very well get much more wear out of the military utility type uniforms than the equivalent CAP only type utility uniforms and may even pay less money.

It's unfortunate that you are on a personal attack against me .  BTW I''m military retiree who was an airman, NCO, and officer and wore the military uniform proudly for 20+ years.  I spend a good amount of time volunteering in CAP and believe in our missions (many of which I've supported wearing my Golf shirts & grey pants very successfully).     However, I again believe that senior members should be transitioned out of military style uniforms into a CAP unique uniform that is professional but yet WILL NOT confuse the already confused public that the CAP civilian member is actually in the military.   I wouldn't be too surprised if the AF decides that CAP senior members will no longer be allowed to wear certain USAF style uniforms in the future.
RM

[NCRblues]

radio,
   Can you show us some examples of the "already confused public" being confused about what a CAP senior member was? I don't mean "well this one time i was confused with the army/air force/ coast guard/marine" type of thing. I would like to see (and I'm sure i am not alone on this) an actual instance when confusion over a cap military style uniform presented a real problem for 1. the cap member 2. the general public (that is apparently "confused" already) or 3. the military. Can you show us these problems or not?

[PhoenixRisen]

However, I again believe that senior members should be transitioned out of military style uniforms into a CAP unique uniform that is professional but yet WILL NOT confuse the already confused public that the CAP civilian member is actually in the military.

While I don't take kindly on posers who purposely try and pass off as a military member (there's NO comparing a "poser" to a CAP member, BTW), what the heck does it matter what the public thinks?  How does that effect how we do our jobs?  Not much (if at all), me thinks....  If they're confused, they should learn to utilize a bit more brain power (and vision), read our nametapes, go look up just what the "CIVIL AIR PATROL" is, and that's that.

Now, if your reason was worry that the military or [insert any cooperative federal agency here] might have a problem, I'd listen.  But do they?  Unless you count a certain unnamed Major General creating his own uniform without approval, I wasn't aware of there being any problems with our uniforms, from the people who's opinions / thoughts actually matter on the subject.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The problem is, there has been no mistake that was significant enough to make our uniform a problem. Besides you aren't supposed to be wearing your uniform while going to the store, paying bills, or your regular life. If you are being mistaken that much then you really need to take off your uniform and try on some civies. As for the ABU, oh yes, the whole military will be getting out of the digicam. My unit was starting to field test the multicam and it was excellent. The uniform breathed and moved and flexed much better than anything I have worn. Multicam blended with almost every environment we were in so well to almost make my ghille suit useless. The multicam is part of the future warrior system and the system as a whole is awesome. When we were being briefed on the uniform they stated that when this uniform goes into svc. the whole military will be wearing it aside from sailors ON A SHIP, they will have their uniforms that they have had before they went to their blue digicam. So all digicam will be gone within 3-5 yrs if the other units field testing the multicam gave it half the rating we did. So I would stop worrying about when we will go into the ABU, it doesn't matter because it will be gone as soon as we get it almost, and I don't know about where you guys are at, but here the multicam in milspec is sooooooo easy to get hands on in surplus we would never buy them out of it.
DrJBDM, I am in the same CAP you are. That was one of my lectures at the last CAP meeting I was at. More pride needs to be put into the BDU uniform. Last I knew we were still supposed to Iron our uniform and shine our boots. I told them in WW2 men actually gave their lives protecting this country in the CAP uniform... which at the time had almost zero difference than the USAF uniform. More pride needs to be taken in CAP. This isn't just a meeting to take up time once a week. It is to serve our community and to protect it's youth and members of the society. If nothing else we need to stay in the same USAF style uniforms to pay an homage to those who came before us and gave their time and lives.

[JC004]

The problem is, there has been no mistake that was significant enough to make our uniform a problem. Besides you aren't supposed to be wearing your uniform while going to the store, paying bills, or your regular life. If you are being mistaken that much then you really need to take off your uniform and try on some civies. As for the ABU, oh yes, the whole military will be getting out of the digicam. My unit was starting to field test the multicam and it was excellent. The uniform breathed and moved and flexed much better than anything I have worn. Multicam blended with almost every environment we were in so well to almost make my ghille suit useless. The multicam is part of the future warrior system and the system as a whole is awesome. When we were being briefed on the uniform they stated that when this uniform goes into svc. the whole military will be wearing it aside from sailors ON A SHIP, they will have their uniforms that they have had before they went to their blue digicam. So all digicam will be gone within 3-5 yrs if the other units field testing the multicam gave it half the rating we did. So I would stop worrying about when we will go into the ABU, it doesn't matter because it will be gone as soon as we get it almost, and I don't know about where you guys are at, but here the multicam in milspec is sooooooo easy to get hands on in surplus we would never buy them out of it.
DrJBDM, I am in the same CAP you are. That was one of my lectures at the last CAP meeting I was at. More pride needs to be put into the BDU uniform. Last I knew we were still supposed to Iron our uniform and shine our boots. I told them in WW2 men actually gave their lives protecting this country in the CAP uniform... which at the time had almost zero difference than the USAF uniform. More pride needs to be taken in CAP. This isn't just a meeting to take up time once a week. It is to serve our community and to protect it's youth and members of the society. If nothing else we need to stay in the same USAF style uniforms to pay an homage to those who came before us and gave their time and lives.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I got you there JC.

     I need to
         
          use my
             
               Enter Key.

                    Thank you.

[JC004]

Do it for the old ones.  They have a hard enough time reading the little type on these new-fangled machines as it is.

[Eclipse]

I am in the same CAP you are.

Are you?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

By the way, I looks like someone is using a fossil for a comp. I'm just joking JC.
Seriously thank you I get on rants and I go a mile a minute. You should hear it when I'm really saying these things. It's like Elliot Reid from Scrubs.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

link=topic=10510.msg194027#msg194027 date=1274675047]

I am in the same CAP you are.

Are you?
[/quote]

Yes I am. This is the USAF Auxiliary. Not the boy scouts or EMS.

[JC004]

By the way, I looks like someone is using a fossil for a comp. I'm just joking JC.
Seriously thank you I get on rants and I go a mile a minute. You should hear it when I'm really saying these things. It's like Elliot Reid from Scrubs.

It's not mine.  I'm using a laptop.  Sometimes a BlackBerry.  (Don't tell Eclipse...he hates my phone)

[Eclipse]

link=topic=10510.msg194027#msg194027 date=1274675047]

I am in the same CAP you are.

Are you?

Yes I am. This is the USAF Auxiliary. Not the boy scouts or EMS.
[/quote]

^ Perhaps a small background on what and where that CAP service is.

I ask because you have wandered in here fairly hot with opinions that don't exactly line up with CAP's reality.
Assuming ES is not in your CAP universe?  What, exactly so you think CAP is about?  Only cadets?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Listen, I have a Life saving medal with a star, I know CAP is ES oriented. I am hoping to take command of my local squadron's GT. To me though, there is another important aspect that comes up more often than a search, that is a cadet needing help. One of our objectives as SM's is to assist our cadets. The cadet has problems more often than we go to search for an ELT. You have to train constantly for ES. But you cannot put ES above CAP itself.

[Eclipse]

Listen, I have a Life saving medal with a star...

I would love to hear the story(s).

[DrJbdm]

  There are several people in CAP because of the belief that CAP is a real SAR organization. Well, the funny thing is CAP isn't really much of a SAR organization. We do have some SAR capability, but we are not a standard volunteer SAR org that several of us believe.

  CAP can do some SAR asset work when it is tasked by the USAF Rescue Coordination Center (USAFRCC) or when tasked by a state government. Unlike volunteer SAR teams and other volunteer organizations, we require funding. The local police supervisor cannot pick up the phone and call us. That must originate much higher and must include monetary resources. CAP is inexpensive when compared to say the National Guard but we are still expensive to most local governments.

  So what is CAP really? CAP is really an operational asset to 1st AF. When approved by the Air Force, read that as saying when approved by 1st AF, we can operate for another entity for short periods of time. It would be safer to call CAP an emergency services entity of 1st AF. We are not an independent emergency services division because we have no authority to function as true emergency services people. Our vehicles do not have emergency vehicle privileges, we are not considered to be first responders.  If you want to do SAR, then really CAP may not be the best organization. We do perform some SAR, but most of our missions are other then SAR related and will continue to evolve away from standard SAR functions.

[Eclipse]

I don't really disagree with your general point - SAR/DR is only one part of CAP service which includes cadets and aerospace educaiton, but this is incorrect.

CAP can do some SAR asset work when it is tasked by the USAF Rescue Coordination Center (USAFRCC) or when tasked by a state government. Unlike volunteer SAR teams and other volunteer organizations, we require funding. The local police supervisor cannot pick up the phone and call us. That must originate much higher and must include monetary resources. CAP is inexpensive when compared to say the National Guard but we are still expensive to most local governments.

They certainly can - the only missions which require calling the NOC are those that would go as AFAMs.  Lots of missions go as C's every year (too many IMHO) and are either self-funded by the participants or out of other corporate funds.  Local agencies do not have to pay for anything if the participants (or usually the wing) are willing to cover the costs.

[JC004]

Listen, I have a Life saving medal with a star, I know CAP is ES oriented.
...

I haz one of themz!  It's a certificate, technically.     That's what they call it.  I wouldn't use having at as a basis of my knowledge of the organization, though.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

NO it's not a basis ok my knowledge, I am just stating I know we do SAR.

[JC004]

It sounded like you were saying "I know because I have this ribbon."  I've got one or two.  It doesn't tell me anything about CAP except that it is curse sometimes because people think it's a Spaatz with a star on it.  It was a serious curse as a cadet.  I still blame CAPTalk user FW for this.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

HAHAHA I have never heard it called a Spaatz with a star, but no I do not base my knowledge of CAP on it. I am just saying I know and I have been there, yes CAP does do SAR but it is not our primary mission.